Is it time to rehabilitate Cold Steel? CONTROVERSIAL

[parbajtor]

I love to watch the CS videos, I intersperse them with Baz Rutten clips and cans of cider for a well balanced weekend.

 

[DShiflet]

Thanks for mentioning the Ulfberht, just doing some reading now. Quite fascinating how the crucible technology occurred at that time.

Discovery(I think) did an hour long documentary where some dude tries to recreate one using the level of technology appropriate for the era. It's on Netflix, if you have that available. They also feature on a heavy metal album, which was actually where I first heard about them(Rebellion-Ulfberth, on Youtube, uploaded by...me, lol).

 

[Longtrang]

As much as I hate to admit it, there are quite a few high speed guys carrying the Recon 1. I like the design, I love the tri-ad lock, I like the feel... I just can't stand AUS-8. It takes one heck of an edge but is quickly dull after one or two uses. In fact it was my dislike of AUS8 that got me started in high end steel. Currently I am saving up for one of Andrew Demko's awesome AD-10s, the Recon would be on my list if it had better steel. Truth is, there are a lot of guys who use knives who are unable to afford or unwilling to pay more than $100 for a knife. For them, Cold Steel is an excellent choice compared to other knives within this price range. To get my business though, they would darn near have to release a mid-tech knife line in some high end steels.

 

[crom]

The trolls weren't satisfied with the level of controversy in the thread, so that had to make some. Sad.

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Discovery(I think) did an hour long documentary where some dude tries to recreate one using the level of technology appropriate for the era. It's on Netflix, if you have that available. They also feature on a heavy metal album, which was actually where I first heard about them(Rebellion-Ulfberth, on Youtube, uploaded by...me, lol).

PBS Nova. I had to install a plugin in Firefox to watch it, but it is fascinating. If I ever write a bit of historical fiction I'll have the main character armed with a crucible formed steel sword.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

I don't know. As a pretty loyal CS fan, I've grown to enjoy their reputation. Imagine a family gathering. You have Uncle Kershaw, Uncle Spyderco, etc. who are responsible upstanding members of the community with steady jobs and families, and then you have Uncle Cold Steel who's the fun "crazy" uncle who travels the world seeking out buried treasure for a living and doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of him. Many of the adults (hardcore knife knuts) rather disapprove of his antics, but most of the kids (general knife buying public) love him and can't wait to see what strangeness he'll be up to at this year's gathering. He's a bit of a braggart and a dreamer who occasionally steps on a few toes and can even appear somewhat flighty at times, but he's a good guy at heart who just happens to march to his own beat, and he always comes through for those who need him when it counts. :thumbup:

I just want to say that I truly love this post.

 

[Livefreeordie92]

Picked up an AK-47 with the ultra lock for like $38 from military clothing sales for my deployment. So far, it's been a dependable knife.

 

[C_Becker]

Thanks for mentioning the Ulfberht, just doing some reading now. Quite fascinating how the crucible technology occurred at that time.

Sorry for OT, but this Thread might be of Interest to you:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/999822-PROGRAM-ALERT-quot-Secrets-of-the-Viking-Sword-quot-on-PBS-9-00pm-EDST

 

[Kwon Kwang]

The CS Black Sable holds more than a slight resemblance to Brian Tighe's "Tighe Stick". The blade is so similar in shape that even Stevie Wonder could look at and tell you that the Black Sable is a copy of the Tighe Stick.

But the handle is a bit different, and it uses a different lock. So that makes this copy OK, right?

Well, what about the Black Talon? Looks a lot like the Spyderco Civilian/Matriarch.

But the handles are different, and you can't patent a blade curve, right? Except that you can and Spyderco actually has/had Spyderco actually has/had 3 patents (2 design, one utility) on the "Reverse S Curve" blade. But maybe that tiny little extra curve at the base of the Black Talon is enough for your lawyers to argue that it's a "unique" design.

And how could we leave out the GI Tanto and its...shall we say...accidental resemblence to the Strider BT?

But the CS doesn't have the thumb jimping, or those silly tiger stripes, and the butt angles the other way. So it can't be a copy, right? I mean, it's not like the description on CS's website for the knife is making a pointed dig at Strider or anything. It must be some other company ran by "convicted felons and rip off artists posing as elite 'military operators'". But not Strider, because the GI Tanto isn't a blatent rip-off of the Strider BT.

Actually, I'll let the GI Tanto slide. Not because Strider is run by felons/liars, but because the BT uses the "Americanized tanto" blade style that Cold Steel made popular themselves (even if they did "borrow" it from Bob Lum).

Cold Steel no longer makes the Black Sable or the Black Talon, so your argument on those is moot.

The GI Tanto is supposed to be similar to the Strider BT and was born out of the beef between the two companies. If my memory serves me correctly, Cold Steel eventually said that they could make a better knife at a much lower price. If Noss' testing is to be believed, they succeeded, and the GI Tanto is now one of the strongest knives on the market and one of the best values in the entire industry.

Sorry if you're upset about Cold Steel making better knives, and at lower prices.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

I just found the first CS knife I bought ... many years ago. Anybody know approximately how old this is?

I've got one of those. It's very old, I would ballpark it at 10 years or older. You should treasure it. Carbon V steel is no longer produced and is highly sought after as one of the best steels for hard use knives.

 

[Minnesotapride88]

Ridiculous marketing aside, I'll start paying attention to Cold Steel if/when they ever address the issue of design theft regarding the Black Sable and Black Talon.

This issue has always piqued my interest... I could be mistaken, but didn't Fallkniven take their F1 design from the CS Master Hunter? Why is there no sympathy for CS in this case?

 

[Cold Steel Knives]

And this is where CS stops commenting

We are currently filming our new PROOF video here at Cold Steel HQ. I don't get to visit this forum very often, and right now I'm busier than ever. As I've said before in other threads I will try to answer all questions in a timely fashion.
Apologies if there's any delay.

I may not be as knowledgeable as some of the guys on our customer services team but I will do my best to answer these questions for you.

The Black Sable. Check out our Scimitar series from back in the day. We just took our Scimitar and made a Tanto point version. Mystery solved.
The Black Talon - It's a hawk's bill knife. Those designs have been around for centuries. See my comment below regarding historical designs
The GI Tanto - We've been making Tantos since the 80's. It's what we are known for. Tantos are kinda our thing. We added tanto point throwers to our line up some time ago.

Sometimes our inspiration comes from historical models combined with our own research and development (our own modern spins on historic designs). Lynn and Andrew's modern version of a Navajah (the Espada) is a good example.
Sometimes we just look back to our own extensive archives - we have many hundreds of designs and prototypes and we are always looking to re-imagine a classic.
And then, sometimes the team may see designs by custom knifemakers - and then we work with them
Look through our catalogs. Look at all the custom knife makers featured in there. We don't steal designs from custom guys, we work alongside them.
Andrew Demko is an excellent example. He's a very talented designer and we are proud to have him as a part of our team.

I hope that helps clear things up.
I'm not sure where all the aggression has come from, as I said before there seems to be a lot of negativity here and that's a shame. Hopefully you will see I'm not an ogre working for an evil corporation. We're all human beings here
We're all here for the love of knives. If we all met at a show or a convention we'd probably all be talking sharp stuff over a beer by now. The lack of a "tone of voice" that comes from reading things on screen often makes things weird.
I may not be able to check the forum for a few hours, PROOF tends to take over the entire company, it's a massive undertaking, so apologies again for any delay in responding
Thanks

 

[Kwon Kwang]

We are currently filming our new PROOF video here at Cold Steel HQ. I don't get to visit this forum very often, and right now I'm busier than ever. As I've said before in other threads I will try to answer all questions in a timely fashion.
Apologies if there's any delay.

I may not be as knowledgeable as some of the guys on our customer services team but I will do my best to answer these questions for you.

The Black Sable. Check out our Scimitar series from back in the day. We just took our Scimitar and made a Tanto point version. Mystery solved.
The Black Talon - It's a hawk's bill knife. Those designs have been around for centuries. See my comment below regarding historical designs
The GI Tanto - We've been making Tantos since the 80's. It's what we are known for. Tantos are kinda our thing. We added tanto point throwers to our line up some time ago.

Sometimes our inspiration comes from historical models combined with our own research and development (our own modern spins on historic designs). Lynn and Andrew's modern version of a Navajah (the Espada) is a good example.
Sometimes we just look back to our own extensive archives - we have many hundreds of designs and prototypes and we are always looking to re-imagine a classic.
And then, sometimes the team may see designs by custom knifemakers - and then we work with them
Look through our catalogs. Look at all the custom knife makers featured in there. We don't steal designs from custom guys, we work alongside them.
Andrew Demko is an excellent example. He's a very talented designer and we are proud to have him as a part of our team.

I hope that helps clear things up.
I'm not sure where all the aggression has come from, as I said before there seems to be a lot of negativity here and that's a shame. Hopefully you will see I'm not an ogre working for an evil corporation. We're all human beings here
We're all here for the love of knives. If we all met at a show or a convention we'd probably all be talking sharp stuff over a beer by now. The lack of a "tone of voice" that comes from reading things on screen often makes things weird.
I may not be able to check the forum for a few hours, PROOF tends to take over the entire company, it's a massive undertaking, so apologies again for any delay in responding
Thanks

Great response! :thumbup:

I'm really looking forward to seeing the new PROOF DVD. I think all of your tests are awesome and they're one of the reasons Cold Steel is not just my favorite knife company, but my favorite company for pretty much anything. The fact that you guys test what you make is huge for me because growing up I always had so many things I owned break on me through normal use.

You can count on me to be a loyal customer and big fan for many years to come.

Also, in contrast to some others in this thread, I think the steels you use are great and wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Gadfly22]

Dear Cold Steel

On behalf of this firm's client, Edgar Hawkbill, we must vehemently disagree with your characterization of Mr. Hawkbill's unique blade design. This outrage is yet another example of a client's intellectual property being improperly hijacked by otherwise legitimate enterprises. We would ask on behalf of our clients Ralph Sodbuster, Rosalind Bowie (the REAL inventor of the blade of that name), James "Buck" Oneten, Elihu Wharncliffe, and John David Pointymetalobject that you cease and desist using any design, outline, sketch, doodle, scrawled line in the dirt or fleeting thought belonging to any of our clients. Failure to comply will inevitably result in wider consumer choices, more affordable prices, increased knife trade (and consequently related employment) and other unfortunate consequences.

Thank you.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

Dear Cold Steel

On behalf of this firm's client, Edgar Hawkbill, we must vehemently disagree with your characterization of Mr. Hawkbill's unique blade design. This outrage is yet another example of a client's intellectual property being improperly hijacked by otherwise legitimate enterprises. We would ask on behalf of our clients Ralph Sodbuster, Rosalind Bowie (the REAL inventor of the blade of that name), James "Buck" Oneten, Elihu Wharncliffe, and John David Pointymetalobject that you cease and desist using any design, outline, sketch, doodle, scrawled line in the dirt or fleeting thought belonging to any of our clients. Failure to comply will inevitably result in wider consumer choices, more affordable prices, increased knife trade (and consequently related employment) and other unfortunate consequences.

Thank you.

I like you and your sense of humor.

 

[Smokinape]

There are times when only a Cold Steel Knife can make the situation right...

 

[et2cetera]

I consider Cold Steels one of my favourite brands. They offer a diverse range of products, going beyond mere utility / decorative knives and into eclectic offerings. Their videos are great fun to watch and provide a breath of fresh air as compared to some other stuffy corporate videos, and best of all, they show you what their knives can actually do (chop a knife through a coin - you could but would you do it with your own knife?). If they could tone down a bit on some of their statements (world's strongest knives comes to mind), I think they will be more appealing.

What's more, I have used their knives pretty extensively and I am happy to report that they have performed as they said they would. Here are some pics:

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CS Trail Master (SK5)

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Said Trail Master going through a tree trunk 1

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Probably constitute 'abuse' going through the trunks but don't worry Cold Steel, not going to claim on the warranty

Oh, and my other favourite: the Gurkha Khukri plus :thumbup: maybe the photos some other time.

 

[jdk1]

Great PR from a great company

When I think of CS, all that comes to mind is the Expendables

No wonder they appeal to younger enthusiasts...........

The posts often show who the "younger enthusiasts" are.

Nah, not trying to make a point, a group of special ed. 2nd graders could tell you they look similar.. Just thought it would be interesting to hear about all the original R&D going on at CS…

I find this offensive and think it doesn't represent the forum well.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The Black Sable. Check out our Scimitar series from back in the day. We just took our Scimitar and made a Tanto point version. Mystery solved.
The Black Talon - It's a hawk's bill knife. Those designs have been around for centuries. See my comment below regarding historical designs
The GI Tanto - We've been making Tantos since the 80's. It's what we are known for. Tantos are kinda our thing. We added tanto point throwers to our line up some time ago.

Hmm. I think you might want to pose the questions regarding those designs to someone higher up and see what they give as an official response. There is nothing wrong in my mind with admitting direct influence or inspiration, and the designs are so strikingly similar that I find it a little disingenuous to make this kind of response. I'm not a hater, and own many Cold Steel products as well as carrying them on my site. My EDC has been a Pocket Bushman ever since it came out and it's in my pocket right now. But this reply kind of rubs me the wrong way.

 

[cbxer55]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How dare you edc a Pocket Bushman. Didn't you know that a reputable knife review video maker has a video on You Tube right now saying that design is a POS because his failed (due to improper use!). I mean, if you go by his video, nobody in their right mind would own one. Myself, I am going to order one here before the day is out. ;-)