Is Jesus God?

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Interesting discussion.

To the OP, yes, I believe what the Bible says - Jesus is God.

Salvation through Christ is available to everyone, and as long as any person knows that "path" to salvation, the choice is theirs to make or not... and as always, choices have consequences.

Tell them "the way". Then tell them that you have told them the way, and then let THEM alone to choose their own way. We can't "save them", we can only pray they choose wisely.

If they are absolutely sure that there is no God, or Jesus, or heaven and hell, then they shouldn't care at all about living eternally in fire (in a place that they supposedly don't believe in anyway). As an analogy, I as a Christian am not threatened at all by a Muslim who tells me I'll not get my 72 virgins if I don't convert to Islam, because I don't believe it... "No virgins for YOU!" doesn't elicit any "feelings" in me at all... no anger, no worry, no "offense" whatsoever. Why should it? I don't believe in such a thing so <shrug> Meh, I couldn't care less.

Beyond your explaining the Gospel to the lost my brothers and sisters, be careful that you don't throw your most valuable possession (your faith - your "diamonds, gold, and pearls") into the soil as fertilizer to help the corn grow - it certainly won't help to make the corn grow but it certainly will be waisted and tread upon by their boot heels. I prefer not to waste the thing most valuable to me on people who clearly don't want it (who have heard the "message" but continue to involve themselves just to try to stomp that message into the dirt for their own amusement). At some point, you may be doing a disservice to God by giving His detractors an audience. Think about it.

Just sayin'...
 
I agree with you about knowing the man but your trust has to be in something bigger than him.He is just a man and will make mistakes and wrong chioces.Sometimes you do need to... run.

I consider myself to be a Christian and a good person but I might pontificate and even denigrate on occasion before I come to my senses and repent.

says who? you?
my trust is in me...and those around me I have known for years, time/experience/history is what breeds trust, not religious affiliation
 
same old BS
my god is better than your god
my politics are better than your politics
my intellect is superior to your intellect
my 'enlightenment' is higher than yours
etc

imo, the only religion (as far as practice, not customs, etc.) that seem to have their stuff together are the Mormons, they 'practice what they preach', and they preach subtly

imo, most Christians are so due to fear and/or default
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) offers a pragmatic reason for believing in God: even under the assumption that God&#8217;s existence is unlikely, the potential benefits of believing are so vast as to make betting on theism rational.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/pasc-wag/

they are religious for the afterlife, and not really the present life...

kind of silly to think that of all the worlds, suns, galaxies, universes, etc., 'god' chose this one to conduct his sick little experiment (in ego? pride? self-obsession?)
if you don't believe in and worship him, you are doomed...so he created us to test us, and if we fail the result is eternal damnation...pretty sick isn't it?
my God is not a cruel entity, and he's not one with an easy out...he makes you work for the benefits of faith (whatever they may be) every day
a good man, non-religious (or Jew, Muslum, etc.) lives everyday helping others, selfless, but goes to hell because he did not 'accept Christ as his personal saviour'
a criminal, gets religion 10 minutes before a lethal injection and reaps the reward (of heaven/eternal bliss)

that pesky little death/mortality thing again: I can't be over, I must go on, me, me, me, I'm special, the universe needs me...the eternal void scares me, so I will mute that fear with belief...I get to go on, others will not...whew, dodged that bullet
that is cruel, pointless, superficial and does not breed better behaviour...
 
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I am more influenced by a person's actions and behavior than their religious or political beliefs. I see too many people whose actions do not correspond to what they profess. What a person professes is one thing, how they live life is another. When they match up; I am more inclined to listen and grow.
 
says who? you?
my trust is in me...and those around me I have known for years, time/experience/history is what breeds trust, not religious affiliation

At one time I was destroying my life trusting in myself.I didn't have any answers that helped and neither did my friends and family.It wasn't untill I put my life in God's hands and started trying to find out how he wanted me to live, and what he wanted me to do that my life started getting better.

I've been on this path long enough to see friends and family on the path I was once on, now destroyed.Many of them are now dead or in prison or just miserable,alone and without their families.I know where I would be without having given my life to God.

I can only speak to you from my own experience.I can't convince you of anything. I don't like the word religion,it means too many different things to different people.I like the word relationship,and yes it takes time,experience and history to develop one.It's my relationship with God that has helped me the most in my life, and I can see how it's helped me to be a better husband,father,friend and neighbor.
 
I have several Jewish friends who believe Jesus to be who he said he was, God. Being Jewish doesn't mean you have to ignore the entire old testament portion of the Bible that points to Jesus as being the messiah and God.

For one example, Isaiah 53 is really difficult to ignore...
 
Here's an extended outline of how I reach the conclusion that Jesus is God. That is, the evidence I rely on that God must exist, that the Bible is reliable, and that Jesus is God.

Its quite a tome, so skip right over it if you aren't in for a long read. Sorry about the length, but some things require more than a few words to explain. But here's what I think, and why I think it. In the latter part I have sourced from equip.org, to which I have given attribution.

At a minimum, I hope that one will conclude there exists a rational basis for the conclusion I have reached, even if you don't share in that conclusion. That is, to dispel the mythology that one must divorce oneself from reason and science to acknowledge God's existence, and that Jesus is God.

1) There is compelling evidence that God must exist

All theories regarding the creation of the universe fall into one of 4 categories:

- the universe always existed
- the universe never existed
- the universe came into existence without a creator
- the universe came into existence because of a creator

The first two theories have no philosophical or scientific support. That does not mean that one of them is not correct. But absent support, or with minimal support, an unbiased observer would not determine that either was the most plausible of the 4 theories. In an age of relative scientific enlightenment, we also know that if the universe existed forever, it would have expended all of its energy because we know that closed systems always move from higher to lower energy states (order to disorder). And a universe which had existed forever would have had forever to become disorganized. But thats not what we see.

That leaves 3 and 4: created without a creator, or created by a Creator. And I am speaking about what is most plausible, not what I can prove with certitude. For no proponent of any theory can do that. Yet.

So is it plausible that once upon a time, there was no space, time, matter or energy (literally nothing, which is hard to imagine) and, without a cause, it sprang into existence from nothingness. This is the theory which non-believers hold to, though they never state it in these terms. They do not so state it because it runs afoul of our experience and knowledge. We know that every effect (the universe in this case), must have a cause equal to or greater than itself. The computer screen you are looking at did not spring into existence from nothingness without a cause, nor did anything around you which you can see or touch. Our experience reveals to us over and over and over that nothing in the physical world can create itself, without a cause, from nothingness. But this is what those who are averse to the notion of God must revert to, because the alternative is to acknowledge God.

Our observation of the world around us leads us to conclude that there must have been a "big bang". But what caused the big bang? An astute non-believer would hypothesize that a so-called "singularity" caused the big bang. A singularity is an infinitely small, infinitely dense point of space-time. Setting aside the issue that there is no evidence of a singularity or that such a thing is anything more than science fiction, the question then is what caused the singularity? And then what caused that cause, and so forth. We end up with an infinite regression of finite causes which never addresses the question of a source. The only palatable means of answering that question is to posit that there must be an un-caused first cause. We call that God. God is much more than merely just "a cause", but we I will characterize him as that for purposes of this post.

Having determined that God must exist - in large part because the alternatives are not plausible - 2) the question then is why is God the God of the Bible, and not the god of Islam or Mormonism or Buddism.

The answer is evidence. And faith in that evidence. Stated differently, why does one believe the Bible is true and correct in its assertions?

Here is a synopsis of why I believe what the Bible expresses is true, as expressed by Hank Hanegraaff:

a) Manuscript evidence:

Manuscripts relates to the tests used to determine the reliability of the extant manuscript copies of the original documents penned by the Scripture writers (we do not possess these originals). In determining manuscript reliability, we deal with the question: How can we test to see that the text we possess in the manuscript copies is an accurate rendition of the original? There are three main manuscript tests: the Bibliographic, Eyewitness, and External.

The bibliographic test considers the quantity of manuscripts and manuscript fragments, and also the time span between the original documents and our earliest copies. The more copies, the better able we are to work back to the original. The closer the time span between the copies and the original, the less likely it is that serious textual error would creep in. The Bible has stronger bibliographic support than any classical literature — including Homer, Tacitus, Pliny, and Aristotle.

We have more than 14,000 manuscripts and fragments of the Old Testament of three main types: (a) approximately 10,000 from the Cairo Geniza (storeroom) find of 1897, dating back as far as about AD. 800; (b) about 190 from the Dead Sea Scrolls find of 1947-1955, the oldest dating back to 250-200 B.C.; and (c) at least 4,314 assorted other copies. The short time between the original Old Testament manuscripts (completed around 400 B.C.) and the first extensive copies (about 250 B.C.) — coupled with the more than 14,000 copies that have been discovered — ensures the trustworthiness of the Old Testament text. The earliest quoted verses (Num. 6:24-26) date from 800-700 B.C.

The same is true of the New Testament text. The abundance of textual witnesses is amazing. We possess over 5,300 manuscripts or portions of the (Greek) New Testament — almost 800 copied before A.D. 1000. The time between the original composition and our earliest copies is an unbelievably short 60 years or so. The overwhelming bibliographic reliability of the Bible is clearly evident.

The eyewitness document test, sometimes referred to as the internal test, focuses on the eyewitness credentials of the authors. The Old and New Testament authors were eyewitnesses of — or interviewed eyewitnesses of — the majority of the events they described. Moses participated in and was an eyewitness of the remarkable events of the Egyptian captivity, the Exodus, the forty years in the desert, and Israel’s final encampment before entering the Promised Land. These events he chronicled in the first five books of the Old Testament.

The New Testament writers had the same eyewitness authenticity. Luke, who wrote the Books of Luke and Acts, says that he gathered eyewitness testimony and “carefully investigated everything” (Luke 1:1-3). Peter reminded his readers that the disciples “were eyewitnesses of [Jesus’] majesty” and “did not follow cleverly invented stories” (2 Pet. 1:16). Truly, the Bible affirms the eyewitness credibility of its writers.

The external evidence test looks outside the texts themselves to ascertain the historical reliability of the historical events, geographical locations, and cultural consistency of the biblical texts. Unlike writings from other world religions which make no historical references or which fabricate histories, the Bible refers to historical events and assumes its historical accuracy. The Bible is not only the inspired Word of God, it is also a history book — and the historical assertions it makes have been proven time and again.

Many of the events, people, places, and customs in the New Testament are confirmed by secular historians who were almost contemporaries with New Testament writers. Secular historians like the Jewish Josephus (before A.D. 100), the Roman Tacitus (around A.D. 120), the Roman Suetonius (A.D. 110), and the Roman governor Pliny Secundus (A.D. 100-110) make direct reference to Jesus or affirm one or more historical New Testament references. Early church leaders such as Irenaeus, Tertullian, Julius Africanus, and Clement of Rome — all writing before A.D. 250 — shed light on New Testament historical accuracy. Even skeptical historians agree that the New Testament is a remarkable historical document. Hence, it is clear that there is strong external evidence to support the Bible’s manuscript reliability.

b) Archaeology

Over and over again, comprehensive field work (archaeology) and careful biblical interpretation affirms the reliability of the Bible. It is telling when a secular scholar must revise his biblical criticism in light of solid archaeological evidence.

For years critics dismissed the Book of Daniel, partly because there was no evidence that a king named Belshazzar ruled in Babylon during that time period. However, later archaeological research confirmed that the reigning monarch, Nabonidus, appointed Belshazzar as his co-regent whi1e he was away from Babylon.

One of the most well-known New Testament examples concerns the Books of Luke and Acts. A biblical skeptic, Sir William Ramsay, trained as an archaeologist and then set out to disprove the historical reliability of this portion of the New Testament. However, through his painstaking Mediterranean archaeological trips, he became converted as — one after another — of the historical statements of Luke were proved accurate. Archaeological evidence thus confirms the trustworthiness of the Bible.

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c) Prophecy

The third principle of Bible reliability is Prophecy, or predictive ability. The Bible records predictions of events that could not be known or predicted by chance or common sense. Surprisingly, the predictive nature of many Bible passages was once a popular argument against the reliability of the Bible. Critics argued that the prophecies actually were written after the events and that editors had merely dressed up the Bible text to look like they contained predictions made before the events. Nothing could be further from the truth, however. The many predictions of Christ&#8217;s birth, life and death were indisputably rendered more than a century before they occurred as proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls of Isaiah and other prophetic books as well as by the Septuagint translation, all dating from earlier than 100 B.C.

Old Testament prophecies concerning the Phoenician city of Tyre were fulfilled in ancient times, including prophecies that the city would be opposed by many nations (Ezek. 26:3); its walls would be destroyed and towers broken down (26:4); and its stones, timbers, and debris would be thrown into the water (26:12). Similar prophecies were fulfilled concerning Sidon (Ezek. 28:23; Isa. 23; Jer. 27:3-6; 47:4) and Babylon (Jer. 50:13, 39; 51:26, 42-43, 58; Isa. 13:20-21).

Since Christ is the culminating theme of the Old Testament, it should not surprise us that prophecies regarding Him outnumber any others. Many of these prophecies would have been impossible for Jesus to deliberately conspire to fulfill &#8212; such as His descent from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Gen. 12:3; 17:19; Num. 24:21-24); His birth in Bethlehem (Mic. 5:2); His crucifixion with criminals (Isa. 53:12); the piercing of His hands and feet at the crucifixion (Ps. 22:16); the soldiers&#8217; gambling for His clothes (Ps. 22:18); the piercing of His side and the fact that His bones were not broken at His death (Zech. 12:10; Ps. 34:20); and His burial among the rich (Isa. 53:9). Jesus also predicted His own death and resurrection (John 2:19-22).


d) Statistics

It is statistically impossible that any or all of the Bible&#8217;s very specific, detailed prophecies could have been fulfilled through chance, good guessing, or deliberate deceit. When you look at some of the improbable prophecies of the Old and New Testaments, it seems incredible that skeptics &#8212; knowing the authenticity and historicity of the texts &#8212; could reject the statistical verdict: the Bible is the Word of God, and Jesus Christ is the Son of God, just as Scripture predicted many times and in many ways.

The Bible was written over a span of 1500 years by forty different human authors in three different languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek), on hundreds of subjects. And yet there is one consistent, noncontradictory theme that runs through it all: God&#8217;s redemption of humankind. Clearly, Statistical probability is a powerful indicator of the trustworthiness of Scripture.

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Having evidence that God must exist, and having laid the foundation that the Bible is true and correct, the question then is whether Jesus is God. Source.

Many biblical texts can be used to demonstrate that Jesus is God. Three, however, stand out above the rest. Not only are they clear and convincing, but their &#8220;addresses&#8221; are easy to remember as well&#8212;John 1, Colossians 1, and Hebrews 1.

First, is John 1: &#8220;In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God&#8221; (v. 1). Here Jesus is not only in existence before the world began, but is differentiated from the Father and explicitly called God, indicating that He shares the same nature as His Father.

Furthermore, Colossians 1 informs us that &#8220;all things were created by him&#8221; (v. 16); He is &#8220;before all things&#8221; (v. 17); and &#8220;God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him&#8221; (v. 19). Only deity has the prerogative of creation, preexists all things, and personifies the full essence and nature of God.

Finally, Hebrews 1 overtly tells us that according to God the Father Himself&#8212;Jesus is God: &#8220;But about the Son he [the Father] says, &#8216;Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever&#8217;&#8221; (v. 8). Not only is the entirety of Hebrews 1 devoted to demonstrating the absolute deity of Jesus, but in verses 10&#8211;12 the inspired writer quotes a passage in Psalm 102 referring to Yahweh and directly applies it to Christ. In doing so, the Scripture specifically declares Jesus ontologically equal with Israel&#8217;s God.

Many similar texts could be adduced. For example, in Revelation 1 the Lord God says, &#8220;I am the Alpha and the Omega, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty&#8221; (v. 8). In the last chapter of Revelation, Jesus applies these self same words&#8212;&#8220;Alpha and Omega&#8221;&#8212;to Himself! Additionally, in 2 Peter 1 Jesus is referred to as &#8220;our God and Savior Jesus Christ&#8221; (v. 1). In these passages and a host of others, the Bible explicitly claims that Jesus is God.

What Credentials Back Up Jesus&#8217; Claim to Deity?

&#8220;When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, &#8216;Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?&#8217; Jesus replied, &#8216;Go back and report to John what you hear and see; the blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor&#8217;&#8221; (Matt. 11:2&#8211;5).

Not only does the Bible explicitly teach that Jesus is God, but Jesus Himself also has provided many convincing proofs that He indeed is divine.

First, Jesus demonstrated that He was God in human flesh by manifesting the credential of sinlessness. While the Qur&#8217;an exhorts Muhammad to seek forgiveness for his sins, the Bible exonerates Messiah, saying Jesus &#8220;had no sin&#8221; (2 Cor. 5:21); and this is not a singular statement. John declares that &#8220;in him is no sin&#8221; (1 John 3:5), and Peter says Jesus &#8220;committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth&#8221; (1 Pet. 2:22). Jesus Himself went so far as to challenge His antagonists, asking, &#8220;Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?&#8221; (John 8:46).

Furthermore, Jesus demonstrated supernatural authority over sickness, the forces of nature, fallen angels, and even death itself. Matthew 4 records that Jesus went throughout Galilee teaching, preaching, &#8220;and healing every disease and sickness among the people&#8221; (v. 23). Mark 4 documents Jesus rebuking the wind and the waves, saying, &#8220;Quiet! Be still!&#8221; (v. 39). In Luke 4 Jesus encounters a man possessed by an evil spirit and commands the demon: &#8220;Come out of him!&#8221; (v. 35). And in John 4, Jesus tells a royal official whose son was close to death, &#8220;Your son will live&#8221; (v. 50). In fact, the four Gospels record how Jesus demonstrated ultimate power over death through the immutable fact of His resurrection.

Finally, the credentials of Christ&#8217;s deity are seen in the lives of countless men, women, and children. Each day, people of every tongue and tribe and nation experience the resurrected Christ by repenting of their sins and receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives. Thus, they not only come to know about Christ evidentially, but experientially Christ becomes more real to them than the very flesh upon their bones.

For those who waded through the foregoing, thank you.
 
Among us Jews, Jesus has no standing whatsoever, certainly not as a prophet. The New Testament has no standing as a religious document.

So far, your post was the single most offensive, Esav. Can you try to keep it more civil, please? I have friends in Haifa who would very quickly and loudly disagree with you.

Many Jews believe in Jesus. They are called "Christians."
There are also many people who thrive on disparaging and hating Christianity out of fear and insecurity.
Like it or not, America IS a Christian nation. The men who liberated the nazi camps in 45 were Christians. (real ones)

It is the only adult religion to me, because it is the only one that actually requires you to focus on your behavior and pretty much ignores all the childish bullshit like food taboos and sacrificing animals.
If he was not divine, then I can't think of anybody who could come closer in word or deed.
But in the end, people don't reject him, they reject his ideas.
It is too hard and too scary for small hearts.

I find it interesting that you find someone voicing their opinion insulting but have no problem voicing yours with an insult thrown in. I challenge bigoted Christians who think their way is the only way and I do it from a secure position in my beliefs not from fear and insecurity. I find that most Christians get offended by my questions and my beliefs from fear and insecurity about there own beliefs. I respect your beliefs but whole heartedly disagree with you both in belief and the fact that the US is a Christian country. It's true that it was founded by Christians and there are a lot of Christians who make up the country. However, the US is not a country of any religion. That was the whole point of starting this country. Or at least part of the point.
 
The problem with discussing someone else's religion from the outside is that religions tend to be complex and self-contradictory, going by the documents, the sects, the development over time.

What exactly is the religion itself? What is the center of it, from which the rest is just spin-off? It is easy enough to pick a particular aspect you don't like, proclaim that the religion itself, and then dismiss it.

Why do so many here who dismiss it, do so arrogantly or antagonistically? Why the overreaction?


As a counter-example, I would suggest that what R.H.Clark has been describing is a reliance on basic principles, without worrying about theological niceties or doctrinal definitions. It's like knife-making -- make a blade, put a handle on it, do it again and again and you get a feel for how to do it really well. It may help to read a few books or watch other good knifemakers in action, but reading and watching isn't knifemaking. Get out there and do it.


Millions of people speak of their adherence to this religion or that, and few bother to think how their personal understanding matches their fellow believers. Worse, they speak of other people's religions, with no experience of those people's behavior. Religion is a way of life that derives from ancient sources, constantly understood in new ways. Flippant disrespect only shows your own lack of experience, and does not invalidate others' beliefs.
 
The way I see things, Judaism is a bloodline, not a religion. I believe Judaism USED to be a religion, but Jesus put an end to it and gave rise to Christianity when he "caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." (Daniel 9:27)
 
So because some people you met taught you something that didn't jive with your superior intelligence, then the whole thing must be a sham? makes sense.

Seems like you are going out of your way to try and misstate what it have said so you can have an argument. very christian of you, jesus should be proud. That is a typical tool of those without a rational basis for their point.

I'm sure Jesus appreciates being called a zombie Jew.

lol -do you really think that matters to him if he exists ? The one who said turn the other cheek ? he's got bigger things to worry about, like the second coming and all.

I'm a Christian; meaning I believe Jesus died for my sins. This is very important to me (as it should be for all) because I sin like a SOB. I'm as imperfect as they come. I DO NOT expect others to judge all Christians based upon my personality/attitude because I am NOT a good representative of perfection just as those folks in your childhood church were not. There in lies the beauty of it all. We ARE NOT perfect to varying degrees. I cuss, been in loads of fist fights and generally mean as hell. At the end of the day however, I accept my faults as being human and I ask Jesus for forgiveness. I detect a hatred in your words for what I believe. In this country, it has become acceptable to hate on Christians and belittle us for our beliefs while calling Islam a religion of peace. Excuse me while I throw a big Bullshit flag on this play. This Christian will call a turd a turd. So I'll see your jerkit and raise you two...removed as per the Mods instructions :)

Respectfully,
me
So just keep getting into fistfights and cussing whatever then ask for forgiveness, seems easy way out. Much harder to live to a high standard than to ask imaginary friend for forgiveness.
Calling islam a religion of peace is something I would never even think about.
 
So just keep getting into fistfights and cussing whatever then ask for forgiveness, seems easy way out. Much harder to live to a high standard than to ask imaginary friend for forgiveness.
Calling islam a religion of peace is something I would never even think about.

Christianity calls for overcoming sin, not just being forgiven. Jesus always told people to, "go, and sin no more."
 
I have several Jewish friends who believe Jesus to be who he said he was, God. Being Jewish doesn't mean you have to ignore the entire old testament portion of the Bible that points to Jesus as being the messiah and God.

For one example, Isaiah 53 is really difficult to ignore...

Here ya go:
Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus
One of the most common questions we receive at Aish.com is: "Why don't Jews believe in Jesus?" Let's understand why &#8213; not in order to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.​

What else can I say? Jews who believe non-Jewish beliefs eventually can no longer be considered Jews. The religious community gets to define itself, not be defined by what outsiders say it is. As Muhammad Ali said when he changed his name from Cassius Clay, "I can be who i want to be, I don't have to be who you want me to be."

For example, the Ten Commandments. Judaism has what we call the Ten Statements. We have six hundred and thirteen commandments. The comic book version is not the religion, not in the case of Judaism, or of any other religion.
 
I'm honestly curious as to what messianic prophecies Jesus did not fulfill, as well as what personal qualifications of the Messiah he did not fulfill.

Points 3 and 4 are simply statements of opinion, and have to be taken by faith in a system, rather than by support of evidence, so I won't argue those points.
 
You need to click on the link.
I didn't want to copy the whole article.

Interesting. I guess it all boils down to interpretation of scripture....

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.
 
I'm a Christian; meaning I believe Jesus died for my sins. This is very important to me (as it should be for all) because I sin like a SOB. I'm as imperfect as they come. I DO NOT expect others to judge all Christians based upon my personality/attitude because I am NOT a good representative of perfection just as those folks in your childhood church were not. There in lies the beauty of it all. We ARE NOT perfect to varying degrees. I cuss, been in loads of fist fights and generally mean as hell. At the end of the day however, I accept my faults as being human and I ask Jesus for forgiveness.

I am not a Christian, but I have no issues with people believing what they want to. What I find disconcerting is people who don't try to better their lives. Yes, we all make mistakes, fall of the wagon, cuss, fight, etc. but if you make a conscious effort to improve your faults then you will improve as a person. The biggest mistake I see Christians(well, really, everyone) make is they ACCEPT their faults and don't try to improve themselves, relying on asking for forgiveness at the end of the day. I'm not saying you don't try to improve yourself, but your post seems to indicate that this behavior has become a pattern for you and I don't see any repentance for acts you admit are not becoming of a good person, just acceptance. That is a frightening road to go down, where does it stop? I'm sure there are lots of behaviors that could be "accepted" by an individual or even a culture that can be excused after the fact by asking for forgiveness, but are horrible crimes nonetheless.
 
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