Is Jesus God?

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Esav Benyamin said:
The problem with discussing someone else's religion from the outside is that religions tend to be complex and self-contradictory, going by the documents, the sects, the development over time.

What exactly is the religion itself? What is the center of it, from which the rest is just spin-off? It is easy enough to pick a particular aspect you don't like, proclaim that the religion itself, and then dismiss it.

Why do so many here who dismiss it, do so arrogantly or antagonistically? Why the overreaction?


As a counter-example, I would suggest that what R.H.Clark has been describing is a reliance on basic principles, without worrying about theological niceties or doctrinal definitions. It's like knife-making -- make a blade, put a handle on it, do it again and again and you get a feel for how to do it really well. It may help to read a few books or watch other good knifemakers in action, but reading and watching isn't knifemaking. Get out there and do it.


Millions of people speak of their adherence to this religion or that, and few bother to think how their personal understanding matches their fellow believers. Worse, they speak of other people's religions, with no experience of those people's behavior. Religion is a way of life that derives from ancient sources, constantly understood in new ways. Flippant disrespect only shows your own lack of experience, and does not invalidate others' beliefs.
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Also exceptionally well put... and worth a re-read.
 
DannyinJapan said:
It is the only adult religion to me, because it is the only one that actually requires you to focus on your behavior and pretty much ignores all the childish bullshit like food taboos and sacrificing animals.
If he was not divine, then I can't think of anybody who could come closer in word or deed.
But in the end, people don't reject him, they reject his ideas.
It is too hard and too scary for small hearts.
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Come on, Danny. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many religions as well as philosophies require self improvement as a tenet. What sets Christianity apart, is that its followers (not its founder), assert that salvation is possible only by supplication to an individual agency (Jesus). It is pretty fun to see the mind sets of the people posting around here. Nice to know you!

pete
 
Here's my take on it, and I apologize if it was already covered, I have to get to work and didn't read anything but the first page:

To evaluate a religion, you don't evaluate what people say it is, or what you heard on TV, or a hundred strawman arguments reared by hateful, petty people, you have to evaluate what is put down in the books that are considered holy books. In this case, the Bible. IF you are a Christian, you must believe the bible. If you don't then why call yourself a Christian? So, what does the Bible say? The Bible says, in numerous places, some of which were already posted, that Jesus is God. Indeed, the entirety of Christianity rests on whether or Not Jesus is who the Bible says he is. If you don't believe the Bible, you have no reason to call yourself a Christian. So, to any Christian asked, the answer MUST be "yes".




On a side note, I find it interesting that there are people who claim open mindedness, and will support one's right to any religion they want, some even having truly reprehensible practices, support atrocities like infanticide, and yet, will howl and weep over talk of Christianity and Judaism. Which to me points out that there is something special about THAT God, that people don't like. Conviction that He is real, perhaps? And don't tell me that it's because they claim that God is the only God, because Islam claims the same thing, yet people who rail against Judaism and Christianity,will often supports the religion of atrocities.

Now, there is a subset of people here that never visit this forum, but once they find a discussion on Christianity, they are all over it. You know who you are, and your posts are the most vitriolic here. There's been a long practice of discussing religion here. I've gone into the backgrounds of some of the names I've given things, and they span from Sumerian mythology, to Celtic to Norse. There's been discussions on Hinduism and Buddhism. All civil. Because if people don't liek the subject, they have the responsibility and self-discipline to not comment. Yangdu and the mods have kept this forum the most polite on Bladeforums, and at the risk of overstepping my bounds, I suggest you get with that spirit of things, or go back to Whine and Cheese and cuss and argue until you're blue in the face and your fingers fall off.
 
I never cease to be amazed at how much emotion and energy is spent talking about, discussing, debating, arguing, religion. Every single person on the planet with two brain cells to rub together has their own belief system which is unlike that of any other person. It's no wonder there is so much discord.

So much time and energy expended on........... nothing.

IMO, Jesus was no god, and in no way supernatural. Just a man, albeit extraordinary.

Andy
 
jasonp said:
So because some people you met taught you something that didn't jive with your superior intelligence, then the whole thing must be a sham?
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So because some people wrote some book thousands of years ago that was translated dozens of times and was then introduced to you, you believe every last word of it? Come on...
 
I have no problem with christians, muslims, or any other religion. The only thing that really bothers me is the arrogance and condescending attitude that a lot of religious people have. If you want to believe in something great. I'm all for it. Just realize that you're a flawed human like everyone else in the world and that you just may not be right. So respect others beliefs as if they're just as right or correct as you believe yours are. I've been with the same girl for a while now and she's heavily Christian. Goes to church, sings in the choir and her dad was once a minister. We get along great because we both have the humility to realize that each of our beliefs are just as valid as the others.
 
I like to use the behavior of prominent religious leaders as well as the behaviors of groups of followers as my primary basis for judging the validity of particular religions. I feel that if Jesus was real, was an all-powerful god, and Christians truly believed in him they would not behave in the manner I have seen hundreds of times over. You do not persecute, lie, steal, and present as a hypocrite. Those are not moral or ethical acts. Although I have met many Christians who are very good people whom I respect and trust, I have met many more who were clearly evil. Combining those observations with the abundance of confusion pertaining to interpretation and continuity of their New Testament, I found myself unable to embrace their theology. My decision to reject those teachings had nothing to do with rebellion or finding something which appealed to me more -- it was simply a matter of common sense. If these teachings are truly valid, those people should not be behaving in the way they do. Tell the truth, be peaceable, be nice to one another -- how difficult is that?
 
I don't intend this to be demeaning, but just because you didn't have the tools (education, comprehension, self-analysis, introspection) doesn't mean that others don't...
not all people who don't resort to religion end up failures...
some people need shrinks/medication, etc., some don't

R.H.Clark said:
At one time I was destroying my life trusting in myself.I didn't have any answers that helped and neither did my friends and family.It wasn't untill I put my life in God's hands and started trying to find out how he wanted me to live, and what he wanted me to do that my life started getting better.

I've been on this path long enough to see friends and family on the path I was once on, now destroyed.Many of them are now dead or in prison or just miserable,alone and without their families.I know where I would be without having given my life to God.

I can only speak to you from my own experience.I can't convince you of anything. I don't like the word religion,it means too many different things to different people.I like the word relationship,and yes it takes time,experience and history to develop one.It's my relationship with God that has helped me the most in my life, and I can see how it's helped me to be a better husband,father,friend and neighbor.
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Personally, I have a problem with such a wonderful place as the HI Cantina becoming a biased breeding ground for prejudice and dislike, hatred and rage. My father, the lovable man that he is, says to me, 'if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all', and this should apply to everything we as human's do, for it is great wisdom coming from a rather unusual, but correct man. I'm not getting on you for anything, Punishment, if anything, I agree with you, I am just saying that it is upsetting me that we as human beings, as homo sapiens, we as 'wise men' are acting with increasingly less wisdom. I am not insulting anyone, let me get that straight. I am saying that I cannot stand it when people, as Andrew said, 'so much time and energy expended on...nothing.' I cannot stand it when good people lose themselves, even for just a moment, in the heat of an argument, and say something abominable, insulting, derogatory, or along those lines. Moderators, please do not let this get any more out of control, no one is unbiased when it comes to controversial subjects, because we are human, we make mistakes and inject emotion into all we are and all we do, and that is a wonderful thing that is being turned into a travesty, a horrible hoax, a monstrosity, by this thread. BennyB, man, for the love of all that is holy and righteous, please listen to me this time and close this thread. I respect all of you, but this has to stop, this forum is practically sacred to me, and I don't believe anyone truly wants it befouled and desecrated with insults, profanity, and dislike. I am serious as all get out when I say this: this needs to stop. You can make fun of me, defame me, do anything you want to me outside of physical violence, and I will still be adamantine in my resolve. This is going too far, too fast. Please, stop. Peace.
David
 
one of the basic 'rights' of America is that people may, or may not, engage in religion, without any repurcussion...no jailing, etc.
yet, others contend this is a right denied by god...if you DON'T believe or participate in a very specific, exclusionary, narrow-minded fashion, you are doomed, 'jailed' in hell for eternity...
if it is a fundemental right, it must be 'good', correct? applies to all...

one party must be wrong
so either we must punish all the non born again christians, or god is open and tolerant, and will not 'doom' based on affiliation, but the actions of the person
I'm going with the latter...

to the person who 'proved' god...
you relied on many assumptions and un-proven facts...
you made a logical arguement, but did not 'prove' anything
even Einstein, a man of faith was not so 'bold' as to presume god could be quantified, analyzed and 'proved'...he just believed, based on what his meager intellect told him to do...
really...the mind of man can comprehend and capture the magnitude of god in an internet posting? really?
it's called 'faith' and not 'fact' for good reason
if it were proven fact, obviously everyone would believe, it's not, so the 'believers' are special, for making the leap of 'faith', WITHOUT proof
that introduces an element of doubt, that will cause internal conflict/turmoil and test resolve...that is kind of one of the main conundrums that god inflicted on us, free will/choice
without knowing for sure, will you stay the course, or wander off the path of righteousness
 
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Auricus said:
Jesus is GOD !!!
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Clapton is god!
:D

Eric-Clapton-Clapton-Is-God---411896.jpg


oh, oh...now I'm damned
 
Vege-Taco said:
I'm honestly curious as to what messianic prophecies Jesus did not fulfill, as well as what personal qualifications of the Messiah he did not fulfill.

Points 3 and 4 are simply statements of opinion, and have to be taken by faith in a system, rather than by support of evidence, so I won't argue those points.
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I love this stuff. It's a waste of time and energy, but it's fun.

What prophecies Jesus did not fulfill? Here, IMHO, is the big one. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

I have heard "Born Agains" try to explain that one away, but it doesn't fly.
 
HairahSitna said:
The pope is the supreme leader of Catholicism correct ? He said that very thing himself, a while back ago in a big speech. It was all over the news. So I'm sorry to have to call bullshit on your statement.
The fact is I was raised christian, went to a fire and brimstone southern baptist church and school both where they used to beat the children all the time for the littlest of things. Many, many years I heard their preachings, sitting right there in the pews. Over and over and over again it was drummed into our heads that ANYONE who does not accept jesus as savior will burn in hell for eternity. I asked questions..." What about an aborigine that never heard the gospel or even jesus name" ? Answer ? They will burn in hell 4ever because if they wanted to know, god would have sent a missionary to tell them about jesus !! Even in 7th grade I saw that those people were wackos and I wanted not to be like them or follow their mind numbing bullshit.
I am so happy christianity worked out for some of you and you have faith in it. For some of us it's utter poppycock and a complete waste of people's lives.

I will say a positive note about christianity. The principals contained in the book itself, the golden rule especially and the 10 commandments have been spread far and wide because of christianity. Those are good things - the idea that we must pray to a zombie jew to enter heaven though is out of the ballpark wacko. Sorry if I am insensitive to your religious beliefs, but your religious beliefs say I'm going to burn 4ever so.......:jerk it:
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You're not being insensitive to my beliefs because the beliefs you hate aren't mine

""The Catholic Church professes that it is the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church of Christ; this it does not and could not deny. But in its Constitution the Church now solemnly acknowledges that the Holy Ghost is truly active in the churches and communities separated from itself. To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God's word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize."

5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church. 6"

Pretty clear to me. That's the nice thing about Catholicism, the teaching is the teaching and you can look up exactly what the Church says.
 
Shotgun said:
I have no problem with christians, muslims, or any other religion. The only thing that really bothers me is the arrogance and condescending attitude that a lot of religious people have. If you want to believe in something great. I'm all for it. Just realize that you're a flawed human like everyone else in the world and that you just may not be right. So respect others beliefs as if they're just as right or correct as you believe yours are. I've been with the same girl for a while now and she's heavily Christian. Goes to church, sings in the choir and her dad was once a minister. We get along great because we both have the humility to realize that each of our beliefs are just as valid as the others.
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I appreciate your position in this. It sounds like you and your Christian girl friend both understand that you are each flawed human beings like everyone else... that you are not Christian, doesn't make you more or less flawed, and that she as a Christian doesn't make her any more or less flawed than anyone else. That is a good place to start... understanding that everyone is flawed and that we will all make mistakes, as all humans do, doesn't change no matter what your religion.

To err is human so we all will (err)... some will learn from their mistakes (sins) and try not to repeat them (repent), others won't. "Mistakes" are in everyone, the willingness to repent isn't.
 
THE NEAREST STAR IS THE SUN



The nearest star is the Sun. Were all excited because there MIGHT be ice crystals on Mars, hence life of some sort. There are more stars out there than grains of sand on earth here so there are most likely other earths EXACTLY like ours. Somebody put all this together but I haven't the slightest idea of their program but I'm sure they are too busy to mark me down for abusing myself when I was 16 years old or whatever. Good luck to you guys and your various programs, Me? I figure there is a next life on a different earth, hey, don't laugh it ain't any weirder that some of the more organized stuff going down on earth today. The next time around, I'm gonna color inside the lines, wait for the glue to dry when I build model airplanes and be a good student. Oh yeah, I'm gonna be an OUTSTANDING guitar player too!

Fog
 
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