Is Jesus God?

[stabman]

Short answer: no.

 

[mdole]

I was stupid to jump in and I knew it. I'll correct that now.

 

[stabman]

For Christians: Don't cast your pearls before swine (Matt 7:6)

Alot of arrogance in that passage.
Arrogant folks thinking they have "The Way".
And the wondrous reference to everyone else as swine.
Classy.

 

[bladerique]

I consider Jesus to be a person that actually lived, not a fictional character in one of the most best-selling novels of all time. But if Jesus was God, he couldn't be a person, because every god is something that people invented to explain things they couldn't explain at the time. I believe that every time people start to listen to what is written in a book too much, they will develop backwards.

Please don't tell me I'm going to hell

I've seen that graphic before, and many people believe it 100%. The causes of "the dark ages" are varied, though it's safe to say the church played a part.

The problem with discussing someone else's religion from the outside is that religions tend to be complex and self-contradictory, going by the documents, the sects, the development over time.

What exactly is the religion itself? What is the center of it, from which the rest is just spin-off? It is easy enough to pick a particular aspect you don't like, proclaim that the religion itself, and then dismiss it.

Why do so many here who dismiss it, do so arrogantly or antagonistically? Why the overreaction?


As a counter-example, I would suggest that what R.H.Clark has been describing is a reliance on basic principles, without worrying about theological niceties or doctrinal definitions. It's like knife-making -- make a blade, put a handle on it, do it again and again and you get a feel for how to do it really well. It may help to read a few books or watch other good knifemakers in action, but reading and watching isn't knifemaking. Get out there and do it.


Millions of people speak of their adherence to this religion or that, and few bother to think how their personal understanding matches their fellow believers. Worse, they speak of other people's religions, with no experience of those people's behavior. Religion is a way of life that derives from ancient sources, constantly understood in new ways. Flippant disrespect only shows your own lack of experience, and does not invalidate others' beliefs.

In another forum, the "FU" content was abundant. I think many of the people that are so hostile to religion are themselves ....... I gotta run. Finish that thought later. Time to get away from this desk.

 

[bennyb]

Wow, this has turned into a real discussion! I'm very pleased that people have been able for the most part to be respectful but at the same time calling out perceived hipocracies in anothers religion. Maybe you can have honest civil discourse about religion with hundreds of other people of differing religions without a riot breaking out. I personally find it fascinating how and why others think about the most important question in the universe. IS JESUS GOD?
Jesus is the most controversial person of all time. He claimed to be God. And many people in his time saw him perform miracles, heard him teach, and believed he was. The religious figures of the time didn't like him because they had they're own rule system (not the holy bible) that they felt reconciled them to God. The problem with that is, they are man-made. These rule-books don't claim to be divine books written by prophets. The old and new testament do both claim to be divinely written by God through men. Esav talked earlier about one of these rule-books that contain 613 commandments written by men. This is the problem I have with Judaism. They seem to be following the rules of man rather than the rules of God.
Jesus remains the most controversial figure of all time because he said he was the only way. That's the main beef many have with Jesus. Many have said that in this thread. "I don't Like another person telling me I'm going to hell" one guy said. It's not Christians telling them that. It's Jesus. Upwards if a billion people believe in Jesus, the historical and archeological evidence for him being who he said he was is unparalleled for the time period. Many people were recorded yo see him risen from the dead, many who were skeptics, including 500 people at one time. Nearly all the writers of the New
testament died as martyrs teaching about Jesus. He is at least worth looking into. HE asks you the question "am I God".
Don't take a Christians word for it. Read the gospels of the new testament for yourself and make a decision. Ask yourself this: If God was willing to come to earth as a baby and die an excruciating death for the sole purpose to save you from his sovereignty because he loves you, wouldn't that indeed be good news?

 

[Ultimate]

Food for thought:

They seem to be following the rules of man rather than the rules of God.

Why should they be different?

...wouldn't that indeed be good news?

Yes, if you believe that...

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Ask yourself this: If God was willing to come to earth as a baby and die an excruciating death for the sole purpose to save you from his sovereignty because he loves you, wouldn't that indeed be good news?

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense.

Christian evangelism is the most irritating thing about the religion. I like Jews because they don't proselytize. Christians just can't help themselves, it's a part of the religion.

Andy

 

[UffDa]

No one knows for sure as it can't be proven. Neither can it be empirically proven for any of the other deities from any religion that was ever conceived. That is all.

Exactly! Most religions do not try to PROVE that they are right. In my experience, it is Christians seems to spend the most time defending their religion. Why is that? A religion is a belief system. You either believe or you don't. That seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

[QUOTE. Ask yourself this: If God was willing to come to earth as a baby and die an excruciating death for the sole purpose to save you from his sovereignty because he loves you, wouldn't that indeed be good news?[/QUOTE]

Not to be overly inflammatory, but no. An omnipotent god would have the power to forgive our supposed sins without the aforementioned excruciating death. Personally, I'd rather no one be put to an excruciating death, even if they're trying to help me out with it.

To the original question, no. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is no empirical evidence of any supreme being, much less one in the Christian tradition.

Also, I'm honestly not trying to call anyone out on this, I tend to get deeply frustrated by the attitude of many Christian's in this nation that they are an oppressed minority. 70% of the country self-identifies as Christian and it is near impossible for anyone professing to be an atheist to hold any public office. One of my friend's was, quite literally, assaulted for wearing a t-shirt expressing his skepticism. Not a deeply inflammatory t-shirt no "x religion is a bunch of bullpucky", just one that said "Atheist". I'm not trying to rant, but to Christians who are authentically interested in having a useful dialogue with the rest of us, understand that to many, many people it sounds ludicrous to complain that Christian bashing is acceptable or status quo. That being said, I have many devout Christian friends that I deeply admire. I'm not interested in seeing the church thrown down in ruins, I just wish it would keep it's nose out of my life and stop trying to legislate morality.

 

[Ultimate]

Exactly! Most religions do not try to PROVE that they are right. In my experience, it is Christians seems to spend the most time defending their religion. Why is that? A religion is a belief system. You either believe or you don't. That seems pretty simple to me.

Maybe because Christianity is the most popular religion in the world?

 

[stabman]

Maybe because Christianity is the most popular religion in the world?

Shouldn't that be reason NOT to have such a need to prove it?
Especially considering that Christianity puts such a high value on faith.
It's about faith people, not proof.
If you want to prove the existence of God, well, no one's been able to do that in the entire existence of the race, so I severely doubt that someone on this forum is about to.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Shouldn't that be reason NOT to have such a need to prove it?
Especially considering that Christianity puts such a high value on faith.
It's about faith people, not proof.
If you want to prove the existence of God, well, no one's been able to do that in the entire existence of the race, so I severely doubt that someone on this forum is about to.

I'd go ya one better; no one in the entire existence of the PLANET has ever provided evidence of anything supernatural.

Andy

 

[timcsaw]

Alot of arrogance in that passage.
Arrogant folks thinking they have "The Way".
And the wondrous reference to everyone else as swine.
Classy.

C'mon stabman it's a parable meant to tell everyone/anyone not to give something they love deeply to another person who won't value it at all (at best), or who might treat it as garbage (at worst). No different than my earlier example of fertilizing a cornfield with gold coins (the corn won't appreciate the value of the gold).

Is it arrogant of me to love my mother SO much, and think SO highly of her that I don't want to let my neighbor borrow her if the only value HE puts on her is the equivalent of an ox and he wants to use her to pull a plow in the field? "Don't cast your mothers before neighbors who will only value them as oxen."

How about this; Don't cast your Buster Warenskie "Jewel of the Orient" knife before a guy who's trying to pry a hubcap off of his car.

 

[stabman]

I'd go ya one better; no one in the entire existence of the PLANET has ever provided evidence of anything supernatural.

Andy

True enough.
Some interesting anecdotes, but nothing approaching the level of proof.

 

[Ultimate]

Shouldn't that be reason NOT to have such a need to prove it?
Especially considering that Christianity puts such a high value on faith.
It's about faith people, not proof.
If you want to prove the existence of God, well, no one's been able to do that in the entire existence of the race, so I severely doubt that someone on this forum is about to.

All I am implying is that more people = more talking. People in a predominantly ______ (insert with any religion) country will most likely hear people defending that religion especially if that religion is the most popular in said country.

 

[stabman]

How about this; Don't cast your Buster Warenskie "Jewel of the Orient" knife before a guy who's trying to pry a hubcap off of his car.

That'd be a better one, especially as this is (maybe?) a knife forum.

 

[stabman]

All I am implying is that more people = more talking. People in a predominantly ______ (insert with any religion) country will most likely hear people defending that religion especially if that religion is the most popular in said country.

Perhaps.
But why the need for proof?
Proof which cannot be had, and that the religion itself says is unnecessary?

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

All I am implying is that more people = more talking. People in a predominantly ______ (insert with any religion) will most likely hear people defending that religion.

I don't know about that. Christianity has, for a very long time, incorporated an element of persecution, whether real or imaginary, into the religion. They often like to portray themselves as being persecuted, by society, other religions, the government, etc. It's been that way for a very long time. What I find quite irritating is that Christians seem unable to stand it if they can't inject their religion into EVERY activity, and if that isn't allowed, they claim persecution.

Andy

 

[Ultimate]

Perhaps.
But why the need for proof?
Proof which cannot be had, and that the religion itself says is unnecessary?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking why do we need proof that a God exists? Well...stabman, the earth is flat; be careful not to fall off. (You probably don't believe me since I have provided no proof that the earth is flat....and also that there is an abundance of "proof" that shows the earth is indeed round.)

 

[Ultimate]

I don't know about that. Christianity has, for a very long time, incorporated an element of persecution, whether real or imaginary, into the religion. They often like to portray themselves as being persecuted, by society, other religions, the government, etc. It's been that way for a very long time. What I find quite irritating is that Christians seem unable to stand it if they can't inject their religion into EVERY activity, and if that isn't allowed, they claim persecution.

Andy

I don't know either, fellow Andrew. I'm just guessing. The way you put it, religion sounds like hard work. Maybe that's why I don't care for it!