Can you elaborate? As an axis-lock knife is opened or closed using a flip of the wrist I can't see how the situation mentioned above happens.
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Is liner lock that bad?
- Thread starter seanuhthin
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Can you elaborate? As an axis-lock knife is opened or closed using a flip of the wrist I can't see how the situation mentioned above happens.I have found out one thing about linerlocks that can make them fail, that is, slipping to the left to unlock when pressure is applied to the back of the blade. It can be a combination of bad geometry between liner and blade tang, or it can be because the liner itself does not have enough bend in it. This is one reason why I disassemble my ll's and in cleaning them up and applying my choice of lube, I will bend the liner a bit to the right. This makes the lock stiffer, and thwarts the possibility of it sliding left and unlocking. On my ZT0200's, and G-10 Tyrades this has worked out excellently. I know some folks do not agree with this, but I have been doing this for years with a lot of success.
I had a Rukus 610 to bite me once. I had the knife in my right hand and used my thumb to pull back the axis bar, leaving my other fingers on the bottom of the knife. I then begin pushing the blade shut by pressing it's back on my thigh. The blade slammed shut before I realized it and I received a nice clean cut to my right index finger!
This was my first Axis Lock in a long while, and since I was accustomed to linerlocks, I made the mistake. After that experience I have had no more problems, and I keep my pivots tight so that the blade does not fly back in when closing it.It can happen, but if you use thumb and index finger to close it the likelyhood of it happening is much much less.
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It isn't the type of lock -but how well the chosen lock is made.
Today in my pocket is my several year old Benchmade 350 Mel Pardue Spearpoint Line Locker.
The lock when it engages goes to the other side of the blade basically.
There is a fair amount of stiction before it lets go when I want it to.
I can see no possible situation where it could fold on me if I don't want it to.
I have a few other LL along with a few Frame Lock, Back Lock and Axis Lock.
I don't really use my knives in a way where I'm worried, but trust those knives I do carry to do the right thing!
The lock when it engages goes to the other side of the blade basically.
There is a fair amount of stiction before it lets go when I want it to.
I can see no possible situation where it could fold on me if I don't want it to.
I have a few other LL along with a few Frame Lock, Back Lock and Axis Lock.
I don't really use my knives in a way where I'm worried, but trust those knives I do carry to do the right thing!
Ive had a Buck Mayo 172 (frame lock) close on my hand twice.
Both times I was gripping the knife in a certain way: four fingers wrapped tightly around the bottom of the handle while exerting downward pressure on the blade spine with the thumb. Basically a choked-up hammer grip. The skin or flesh on my hand would force itself between the left side of the handle and the locking bar thus disengaging it.
Before anyone suggests it was somehow a faulty lock.....in my opinion the lock itself was fine, well adjusted and 0 blade play. I had something to do with the overall design of the knife.
I don't have the same problem with my Sebbie.
Both times I was gripping the knife in a certain way: four fingers wrapped tightly around the bottom of the handle while exerting downward pressure on the blade spine with the thumb. Basically a choked-up hammer grip. The skin or flesh on my hand would force itself between the left side of the handle and the locking bar thus disengaging it.
Before anyone suggests it was somehow a faulty lock.....in my opinion the lock itself was fine, well adjusted and 0 blade play. I had something to do with the overall design of the knife.
I don't have the same problem with my Sebbie.
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There is nothing wrong with a good liner lock. People try so hard to make certain locking mechanisms fail that they get way too uptight about what lock is best. Most liner locks are some of the easier locks to fail when doing ridiculous tests (I.E. spine whack), but if you're that worried about which lock is stronger just get a fixed blade :thumbup:.
As for the ZT 0301, there's more to it than it being slightly bigger and having a frame lock. It has a bigger pivot, blade, and handles. It also has one handle slab constructed with Ti and the other with G10, both of which are 3D machined.
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You know, try beating the dead horse with a liner-lock and see if it fails. Either you prove liner-locks are good and there is no more horse to beat, or you cut yourself and learn your lesson about equine battery.
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I like the way you put it.
There is also something to be said about the simplicity of a liner lock (even more so for a frame lock). There is only one moving part aside from the blade. With benchmade's axis lock there is a little torsion bar which applies pressure to a floating lock; it is more complicated. Being more complicated, I am curious to find out how an axis lock would compete with a framelock or liner lock in a mudd test rather than a spine test.
batosai117
Gold Member
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You should take a look at what kershawguy has to offer. He has ZT0300 blems which are damn near perfect but about half the price:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=655074
Plus, he's a BF dealer and a stand up guy. As for the liner locks, I've never had one fail on me but then again, I tend to practice safe knife handling and don't beat the spine of the blade that often. I have an emerson commander that I chop, baton, slice, dice, etc...with and it still holds up just fine. I'm currently carrying an emerson CQC-8 and the liner on it is very well made, plus I like the feel of G-10 on both sides of the handle.
You can't beat ZT's liner locks though, even the G-10 tyrade had some beefy liners that really impressed me.
I hope this helps, J.
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I would echo what others have said: a well made liner lock is a fine lock. I'd take an Emerson Liner lock over a cheapo chinese no-name frame lock any day.
Its also worth noting that regardless of what kind of lock you have you shouldn't be using it as if it were a fixed blade. Pretty much anything you cut with a frame or linerlock, you should also be able to cut with a slip joint. If you are doing something with the locking knife that would normally make the slip joint fail, then you are doing something that is dangerous and unsafe. Thats my take on it anyway.
Its also worth noting that regardless of what kind of lock you have you shouldn't be using it as if it were a fixed blade. Pretty much anything you cut with a frame or linerlock, you should also be able to cut with a slip joint. If you are doing something with the locking knife that would normally make the slip joint fail, then you are doing something that is dangerous and unsafe. Thats my take on it anyway.
spiralarchitect
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I like that. :thumbup:
There are so many small, pocketable, production fixed blades out today that there is no reason to be doing something stupid with a folding knife on a regular basis.
The ZT 0350 will do pretty much anything any other high quality production folder will do be it a frame or liner lock. ZTs are very well made and any of them should serve you well for years to come. Plus, there is a good warranty program to go along with the knife.... just in case.
J mentioned Kershawguy's blems. I'd highly recommend them. I have a couple of ZT030X blems and they are just fine. IIRC the only issue with either involved small "pin prick" imperfections in the coating. If that bothers you, a little sand paper and alot of elbow grease can get you past that and it would still be a good deal. :thumbup:
Edit to add: Cutter, great minds think alike :thumbup:
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So true. As soon as people realize that folding knives will never be as strong as a fixed blade there won't be as many "which lock is stronger" or "which of these folders is toughest" debates. That's the problem with most people that are only into folding knives, they try and find the toughest folding knife when a fixed blade can do it better. Why baton with a folding knife, potentially breaking the knife, when any decent fixed blade will hold up and do the job more efficiently. I agree with your slip joint comment as well. :thumbup:
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yes. liner locks are terrible. if you use one you will die.
Jason B.
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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A lot of cheap knives have given a bad rep to good locks on good knives. There is a lot that goes into making a lock work right and most all quality production companies know what they are doing.
The thought that a frame lock is stronger is also a bit of a misconception, to me a frame lock is safer and less susceptible to twisting forces but its only as strong as its weakest point. That point is the cut out at the back of the frame lock, I'm sure some are better than others but I've never seen any data so it would be hard to say who has the best design.
Basically it all comes down to the materials used, the maker and a little common sence on the users part.