Is liner lock that bad?

Bushman5 said:
nothing wrong with liner locks. definitely something wrong when people use their folder's though like a fix blade then cry and whine that their liner lock failed, thru knife abuse.
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Ditto. a locking mechanism is a mechanical device that is prone to failure. If you keep that paradigm, you will not have a folder close on you.
 
cj65 said:
Ditto. a locking mechanism is a mechanical device that is prone to failure. If you keep that paradigm, you will not have a folder close on you.
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Keep that attitude and there is no point in a locking knife - you might as well save the money and get a friction folder.

People buy locking knives to lock, reliably and with strength.

Yes, folding knives are intended to fold, however they should only fold when the operator chooses. Expecting anything less defeats the whole purpose of having a locking knife and, more importantly, does nothing to advance the technology.

Linerlocks have a well known history of failing "out of the blue". Knives that lock well for years, pass various tests, etc. will sometimes just fail for no discernable reason; and then go right back to functioning correctly.

I've experienced such, and dealt with knives I recommended that had linerlocks, from quality manufacturers no less, that have failed - sometimes with serious injury.

And, as STR noted, there seems to be a rather large amount of failures of linerlocks when the knife is exposed to truly trivial loads - the stabbing into a cardboard box being common enough to be a cliche' in this regard.

There are better locks out there than the linerlock. Buy and use knives with those locks.
 
At first I was pretty hard on liner locks, there were a few times when I just about said they should be banned.
Now that I've owned 10 of them and the only failure was due to gross abuse, I think they're probably the most unreliable lock you can get, but the good ones seem to do pretty well.

The liner locks I like are just about anything from Spyderco, and the thick ones from Kershaw (ZT0200 and JYD II).
All the others (even some from Kershaw) I treat like they're out to kill me.
Sometimes I think those knife designs would be better served as a slip joint.

Remember that regardless of which lock type you use, it needs to be tested. I've had a few bum examples of what I consider to be the best locks ever. I still trust them more than any of the others, but rarely is anything going to perfect all the time (especially when it comes to manufacturing).
 
I think that Benchmade Dejavoo has best liner lock on market right now. It opens so easy and locks absolutely safely. This is ( in my opinion ) best liner lock knife you can find. Real " tactical " ( whatever this word means for folder ) knife. It has tighter lock than model 710 ( Benchmade ).
 
cabala said:
I think that Benchmade Dejavoo has best liner lock on market right now. It opens so easy and locks absolutely safely. This is ( in my opinion ) best liner lock knife you can find. Real " tactical " ( whatever this word means for folder ) knife. It has tighter lock than model 710 ( Benchmade ).
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The several Dejavoo's I've handled had such a weak dedent I didn't feel safe carrying one.
 
orthogonal1 said:
Keep that attitude and there is no point in a locking knife - you might as well save the money and get a friction folder.

People buy locking knives to lock, reliably and with strength.

Yes, folding knives are intended to fold, however they should only fold when the operator chooses. Expecting anything less defeats the whole purpose of having a locking knife and, more importantly, does nothing to advance the technology.
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I respectfully disagree. I own approximately 45 knives. Approximately 15 or so have locking mechanisms, and 30 do not. I buy folding knives to fold and put in my pocket. I do not trust any lock to lock 100% of the time. I do not expect my guns' safety to work 100% of the time, so I use precautions. I agree that a liner lock has a probability to become unlocked due to articulation with the palm of the user's hand. I think we agree on this. Just so you know, I am not Anti-lock or pro slip joint. I appreciate a good designed locking device but will never use a knife in a way that would "test" the ability of the lock to hold if a failure of the lock resulted in my hand being injured. All aspects of folding knives, including the locking mechanisms are why I am a knife nut.
 
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cj65 said:
I respectfully disagree. I own approximately 45 knives. Approximately 15 or so have locking mechanisms, and 30 do not. I buy folding knives to fold and put in my pocket. I do not trust any lock to lock 100% of the time. I do not expect my guns' safety to work 100% of the time, so I use precautions. I agree that a liner lock has a probability to become unlocked due to articulation with the palm of the user's hand. I think we agree on this. Just so you know, I am not Anti-lock or pro slip joint. I appreciate a good designed locking device but will never use a knife in a way that would "test" the ability of the lock to hold if a failure of the lock resulted in my hand being injured. All aspects of folding knives, including the locking mechanisms are why I am a knife nut.
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Amen :thumbup:

:D
 
I personally have no experience with liner locks, but as many have said I consider that the most important aspect is the quality of the lock and not the type.

I did rather use a LL made by a quality company than a no name fixed blade. A low quality fixed blade can break and be as dangerous as a folding knife.
 
I've never cared for Kershaw knives but a well built liner lock is rock solid. I don't know much about the ZTs but many say they are nice so give it a try. I suggest you take the plunge and buy a Strider AR if you want the best liner lock on the market IMHO. You get a $10.00 liner lock and you may have trouble. But something like a Strider AR is built like a tank. I own one and that liner lock is in no danger of failing no matter the cutting task.
 
If your a lefty like me and grip the liner locking knife hard you CAN DISENGAGE the mechanism. I have done it several times.....Righty grip can actually engage the lock more securely. Now I'm speaking about my own knives, Kershaw, Benchmade.
 
cj65 said:
I respectfully disagree. I own approximately 45 knives. Approximately 15 or so have locking mechanisms, and 30 do not. I buy folding knives to fold and put in my pocket. I do not trust any lock to lock 100% of the time. I do not expect my guns' safety to work 100% of the time, so I use precautions. I agree that a liner lock has a probability to become unlocked due to articulation with the palm of the user's hand. I think we agree on this. Just so you know, I am not Anti-lock or pro slip joint. I appreciate a good designed locking device but will never use a knife in a way that would "test" the ability of the lock to hold if a failure of the lock resulted in my hand being injured. All aspects of folding knives, including the locking mechanisms are why I am a knife nut.
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The lock on a knife with a linerlock is not a safety, it is an integral part of the knife's function.

To use the gun anology, I fully expect the gun to fire 100% of the time when I pull the trigger on a live round - assuming any safety is disengaged. Anything else and repairs will be made or the gun is set aside.

Most linerlock knives, as well as many other knives with other lock types, become nothing more than friction folders when the lock fails, since there is nothing biasing the blade in an open condition.

As such, lock reliability is deciding factor for knife ownership.

Further on the gun anology, although I treat my guns as always loaded and ready to fire, when I test the safety on a gun and it does not function correctly, I set the gun aside until the safety is repaired. A safety is not "a safety" if the mechansm does not work.

Linerlocks fail for reasons other than "fleshy hand" syndrome, though that is a consideration in design. This situation seems to be a noted problem with some knives such as the BM 910.
 
Linerlocks are not bad in and of themselves, it all depends on who the maker/manufacturer is. Two of my favorite liner locks are my Spyderco Military, and a Mike Obenauf small model 2 that has been long gone for a while, at least from my paws.
 
I personally think you people complaining about the liner lock are using your knives too hard, being careless, and forgetting you're holding a folding knife. There are accidents with all kinds of locks and most of the time it's from one of the above reasons. There are duds, not everything's perfect, but to say all liner locks are bad is a little extreme. I've never had a liner lock fail on me, or any lock for that matter, because I know what limitations my folding knives have. If you're doing anything but cutting with your knife and the lock fails it's a user error and not the locking mechanism's error.

Accidents happen, live and learn (keyword learn).
 
isnt a frame lock just a liner lock without a handle slab on that side?

Whys is the framelock considered so much better,stronger than a aliner lock when the liner just has a slab screwed down ontop of it?

So it seems the consensus is that yes a liner can be disngaged in certan grips and with pressure on the spine? A framelock doesnt suffer from these "weaknesses"

Now after reading all these posts I am even more hesitant to go the ZT route or any liner/framlock route again.

hmm, maybe a Spydie Chinook?
 
I think because on a frame lock, when you squeeze or grip the handle, you are preventing the lock to slide to the open position. The harder you grip, the more pressure against the lock. On a liner lock, your grip isn't reinforcing the lock because it's not touching it.
 
litetube said:
isnt a frame lock just a liner lock without a handle slab on that side?

Whys is the framelock considered so much better,stronger than a aliner lock when the liner just has a slab screwed down ontop of it?
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I often think the same thing, because many framelocks have a deep groove at their base which is about as thin as a liner-lock.

With the premise that a lock is only as strong as its weakest part, framelocks with these grooves would seem to be no stronger than a linerlock of the same thickness (that is, the same thickness of the hollowed out portion of a framelock).

Has anyone else made this observation or am I missing something? (I am talking about streangth only, not accidental release of the lock)
 
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litetube said:
isnt a frame lock just a liner lock without a handle slab on that side?

Whys is the framelock considered so much better,stronger than a aliner lock when the liner just has a slab screwed down ontop of it?

So it seems the consensus is that yes a liner can be disngaged in certan grips and with pressure on the spine? A framelock doesnt suffer from these "weaknesses"

Now after reading all these posts I am even more hesitant to go the ZT route or any liner/framlock route again.

hmm, maybe a Spydie Chinook?
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The Government said:
I often think the same thing, because many framelocks have a deep groove at their base which is about as thin as a liner-lock.

With the premise that a lock is only as strong as its weakest part, framelocks with these grooves would seem to be no stronger than a linerlock of the same thickness (that is, the same thickness of the hollowed out portion of a framelock).

Has anyone else made this observation or am I missing something? (I am talking about streangth only, not accidental release of the lock)
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I have made this observation in the past:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620647
 
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