Is the hype genuine?

My story is little different. Traded a nice mammoth Mnandi for my 1st XM and couldn't be happier. Mnandi set in my safe....XM sits in my pocket. It's just meant to be used.

I recognize that there's something unique about the supply/demand of these knives and that I've got more invested in this knife than most I own, but I don't expect it to lose much if any value after some period of ownership.

I was willing to buy it....and am sure willing to use it. I've got a 3" and it's no beast, just a perfectly designed and built edc.
 
Most people, even people who are pretty into knives, aren't likely to see a proportionate difference between an 0560/0561 and a XM-18. Zero Tolerance knives are production knives and thus not as carefully made, but are still fantastic and use quality materials.

I can't justify a $700 knife when I've yet to find something my Paramilitary 2, ZT 0561, and Endura Wave can't handle. If I lose one of those knives, it's reasonable for me to replace them. If one breaks from normal use, they're all under warranty. The steels hold an edge far better than I'm likely to ever need.

Admiration of a quality product, status, and lack of financial concerns = reason to buy an XM-18. From a purely functional standpoint, they're not worth it.

How much you like the design, however, will determine how much it's worth to you. Granted, if I had unlimited funds, I'd almost definitely have one just to have one. As someone who has to budget, and as someone who regularly uses knives, the price point is preposterous.
 
As to whether it's ethical to "use" a member of emt, military, or firefighters in order to get a Hinderer knife at a discount I'd like to go to the flip side. There are probably service personnel who buy the knife just to turn around and resell it at a substantial profit.

In any case that particular method of selling always seems bring out abuses in the system. Personally, I think that if Rick sold at the same prices to everybody there would not be any controversy, no one would have a reason to be offended, and the cost would be reasonable for the quality.

Yes, I would like to buy a Hinderer. But no, I will not pay what I consider an overinflated price.
 
Thanks for the impute guys, I got what I needed. Glad this didn't get out of hand I really appreciate the honest opinions. I don't think I'll be buying one anytime soon, maybe in the future if the price drops down to a more "reasonable" (also my opinion) level I would, but for that price I think a ZT or even a Strider makes a little more sense to me.

Thanks again, take care.

Zach
 
I don't think it's hype really. Just about any knife that people ask if the hype is really warranted it is and the knife is fantastic. Best way to see for yourself is to go buy one and decide if its for you or not. Also remember none of the issues people are complaining about are the fault of Hinderer but us as consumers. As long as we are willing to pay the price of admission it will remain the same. I wish as much as the next guy that they were cheaper but I for one am willing to pay the price for a superb product.
 
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FCM415 said:
Rick's price for it is 400 bucks. Thats what I can afford. Who is really taking advantage here, could it be dealers and persons selling it for twice the price? I might be way off base here. Im just assuming that the prices are at a premium because of demand, but msrp is really 400 bucks.
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...gotta love that entitlement attitude. I can't afford $400 so I'll go to Ohio and throw a rock through his window and take one, I deserve it.
 
In the past I would have been willing to buy a hinderer at $385. However since buying a carbon fiber zt 0550, I have realized that i dont have a need for an overbuilt pocket knife for my edc tasks. Recently i have looked at a few sebenzas because they seem to be smaller. I am still looking for a spyderco that is comfortable in my hand. I will say one of the nice things about high end knives is that they keep their resale value. If you can afford it then rock on its your money/hobby. I have two other hobbies that have taken most of my money. People thought i was crazy spending the money that i did but to me it was worth it. And thats what matters.
 
Natedog351 said:
while some ppl might be able to get them at 400$ then turn around and sell them for around 800$ there are others that pay the 400$ then sell them for just that 400$
In a perfect world everyone could just buy them at 400$(or less) but that is just not the case
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I've been on about 7 different knife forums over the past five years and I've never seen an XM-18 go for $400 in any of the for sale forums. I've never even seen one go for under $550. Please provide a link to one of these "good natured" sales.
 
Tony8179 said:
I've been on about 7 different knife forums over the past five years and I've never seen an XM-18 go for $400 in any of the for sale forums. I've never even seen one go for under $550. Please provide a link to one of these "good natured" sales.
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Amen to that! Never seen one either,past or present.Recently,a well used ,carried one with marks and scratches on handle and blade went for 650.
 
Comeuppance said:
Admiration of a quality product, status, and lack of financial concerns = reason to buy an XM-18. From a purely functional standpoint, they're not worth it.
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You are 100% correct, and we would be well served to acknowledge this. Titanium and bling make us feel good. And thats a fine reason for buying a knife or anything else.

But no $300 or $700 knife can deconstruct a box, or open a clamshell, or peel an apple better than about 20x $120 knives that we can name. Heck, a SAK will slice cardboard better than virtually any spendy knife in existence. Spendy knives don't function better than reasonably priced knives, and I call bull to anyone who says otherwise. [I don't think anyone here has done that, btw]. But they can make us feel good, because we know about the titanium and the bling and the precision tolerances and so forth. And thats a fine reason to buy one.
 
ron finkbeiner jr said:
Like all things the value is all based on speculation.
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Actually, value is based on perception. A diamond is the quintessential example of this. In actual value, it's a shinny worthless rock...but the perception is that it's priceless. That perception was created by those that mine and sell them. It's snake oil on an enormous scale.

Regarding the price of a Hinderer. I just recently acquired one and am very pleased. In fact, I'm so happy, I'm looking to buy another. Yes, it's a knife that might be considered more practical in the $350-$400 range. However, it suits my needs (weight, fit, blade shape, comfort in the pocket, etc.). Mine is the XM 18 3". On the flip side (no pun intended), I wouldn't pay $300 for the 3 1/2" version. That's because it's too heavy for what I use it for. It doesn't mean it's less valuable, it's just less valuable to me. My perception of the 3 1/2" isn't the same as the 3". Therein lies the true value.......did Yoda say something like that. "Not to randomly flip your knife open, cut yourself you will"
 
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Tony8179 said:
I've been on about 7 different knife forums over the past five years and I've never seen an XM-18 go for $400 in any of the for sale forums. I've never even seen one go for under $550. Please provide a link to one of these "good natured" sales.
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Completely trying to deny that people would gift away a xm-18 for 400$ or even giving it away to a friend is ridiculous if it didnt happen the forums doesnt mean its never happened it could have even happened and you not see it
You can have your opinion but my opinion will stay the same that the people that try to take advantage of a military discount are extremely disrespectful to the people that serve your country
You complain that you have to wait too long to get a hinderer and that its wrong that rick serves military first and at discount when you dont factor in that they risk their lives for us stay away from their family etc they make a lot of sacrifices for us and to you its unfair

and yes I also find it wrong if said military people simply buy them just to make profit
 
Lets be careful to discuss the knife and the sales and not each other.

Why is a price over MSRP a problem? Prices are a function of the market: how many in circulation, how many offered for sale, how many buyers willing to pay the price asked.

We see buyers complain that Cold Steel MSRP is too high. Well, street price is lower.
Buyers complain Hinderer street price is too high and want to pay MSRP. :)
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Lets be careful to discuss the knife and the sales and not each other.

Why is a price over MSRP a problem? Prices are a function of the market: how many in circulation, how many offered for sale, how many buyers willing to pay the price asked.

We see buyers complain that Cold Steel MSRP is too high. Well, street price is lower.
Buyers complain Hinderer street price is too high and want to pay MSRP. :)
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It really comes down to if the individual believes the knives are worth the asking price or not.

For some they seem to be worth those huge markups and that's fine for them.

For others they aren't worth it so they buy something else.

For me if I had $700 to spend on a knife it sure as heck wouldn't be one of those I can tell you that as I can think of some very nice customs and or I could have a made to spec custom for that price.

Added to the fact that I wouldn't be paying $700 for a $385 knife that could drop in value and likely will over time because they are making more of them AND will likely ramp up production in the future....... If that happens those knives will drop in value very fast back down to the original price.... That's something to think about when paying twice what the original price is for something that they are still making...

it will be interesting to see what those said people think after that happens...... ;)

It could come to the point that people might have a hard time getting even $385 for them on the secondary market...... For a knife they paid $650+ for.......

Sometimes it's better to wait and see what happens then to jump. :)
 
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That's one of the best advice I've seen on this forum in a while. These Hinderers are cool as hell to have just like the ZT056x when they first came out, but over time I come to find that that's all it was, the cool factor. When the market does shift, and it's no longer hard to get one, it'll just be an overpriced knife that you'll end up trying to justify why you overpaid for it in the first place.
 
Jasonsdman said:
That's one of the best advice I've seen on this forum in a while. These Hinderers are cool as hell to have just like the ZT056x when they first came out, but over time I come to find that that's all it was, the cool factor. When the market does shift, and it's no longer hard to get one, it'll just be an overpriced knife that you'll end up trying to justify why you overpaid for it in the first place.
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I think the bottom falling out of the secondary Hinderer market is just a hope. They have been out for several years now and are not much easier to get ahold of and the number of people wanting them is increasing daily. To my knowledge Mr. Hinderer has showed no interstate in becoming another run of the mill production company. If Spyderco can't pump out enough paras to meet demand what makes you think Hinderer is gonna be spamming XMs anytime soon? The people that own them won't be trying to justify why they over paid if it ever does happen they paid what they did cause it was worth to them and they could afford too.
 
Nice first post Dragoon44.

It is funny to hear people speculate about Hinderer upping production and the "bottom falling out". Rick has said on many occasions that he will not sacrifice quality to increase production. In the three years I have been a knife collector, production Hinderers have maintained their secondary market values. As for individuals reselling for a higher price, how is that any different from dealers who score at lotteries for the sole purpose of reselling at 3-4x table price?

There is no one knife that will please everyone, that is why there are lots of makers creating a variety of knives. No need to bash the makers you don't like.
 
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