Is the hype genuine?

[jkulysses]

"Dude"(what are you, in high school or something?). Nobody gives a shit that you think your some kind of elite Samurai sword fagggot. You think you're some sort of bad asss because you own a bunch of ultra sharp/expensive pocket knives! WHOA!! Real threatening. People with guns are real scared. Here's an idea, sell some of your stupid f****** folding knives, move out of your parent's house, and join the rest of society by getting a job instead of hanging around your parent's house all day whacking off and being a internet tough guy. Quit taking out your thumb tack dick aggression out on these people and get a life.

Just some bored child trolling up the forums. Real cute but you will be banned soon so have fun while you can. Every one of his handful of posts is like this...

 

[FCM415]

Yeah but he chose my post out of the millions on BF... Was I that bad? I learned my lesson, keep it vanilla as possible when talking about sensitive topics like Hinderers. Wow, I love bladeforums... I probably should reevaluate some things, Im here too much, caring about knives and for what. I've been crapped on this whole thread. Whose next dont stop now.

 

[dkb45]

Yeah but he chose my post out of the millions on BF... Was I that bad? I learned my lesson, keep it vanilla as possible when talking about sensitive topics like Hinderers. Wow, I love bladeforums... I probably should reevaluate some things, Im here too much, caring about knives and for what. I've been crapped on this whole thread. Whose next dont stop now.

Sorry to say, that is how some people are here. If you believe something that is not popular opinion here, you will likely be subject to ridicule. Most of the people here are good, but there is always that "in group". While I don't agree with your philosophy, I feel that you can do it if you want. Personally, I love my knockoff Umnumzaan and feel that everybody who cannot afford a real one should get it for the design. That opinion has already lead to near attacks on me. This place is a lot like high school, most people are fine but those select few can make you feel pretty ostracized. Ignore them.

I would also note that this specific guy was just an ass. Most of the less than polite people here will at least keep civil. Those that don't get banned, unless you get in a whine & cheese fight. There is no winning those.

 

[FCM415]

Uh huh... Getting myself banned would be a reliable way to stay out of this place. Im here a lot... Too much, very disheartened. I've learned a lot from BF and would like to think that Im part of the community. If Im getting these reactions, and others arent Im doing something wrong. Im not out to disrespect people who treat Hinderer like a God, I just have an opinion that Id like to purchase his knife for his msrp as I want 100% of my money to go directly to him what in the... Is wrong with that? Its an opinion!

ADD: Come to think of it, I know why I was targeted out of millions of posts and thousands of members. My assumptions were verified, it was more than a coincidence. That's a lot of effort you put there. Good job.

 

[dkb45]

I feel you there. While I will admit that the work of the big name custom and semi custom makers is good, their prices are more than high enough to warrant dislike from people who shy away from bling. If you really want to catch flak, talk poorly about a Sebbie. I hate to sound like a hipster, but people defend the high dollar knives like they have something to prove to themselves.

Okay, I think I can't say much more on the subject, aside from this. Don't care about making waves. You don't have anything to prove to anybody, and since membership is free (unless you pay for additional features) you owe nobody anything.

 

[FCM415]

Thanks for taking the time bro...

Its easy to see who the troll was. Too bad he couldn't handle trolling on his own account. I'd at least have a little respect for him.

 

[dkb45]

Thanks for taking the time bro...

Its easy to see who the troll was. Too bad he couldn't handle trolling on his own account. I'd at least have a little respect for him.

You lost me. Respecting a troll? At best they deserve to be fed until it ceases to be entertaining. Being a dick is just that: being a dick. If you find that entertaining then you need some help, because your jollies should not come at the expense of another.

 

[FCM415]

You lost me. Respecting a troll? At best they deserve to be fed until it ceases to be entertaining. Being a dick is just that: being a dick. If you find that entertaining then you need some help, because your jollies should not come at the expense of another.

It was certainly just a play with words believe me. I was being sarcastic, it hard to get that across on keyboard. If he used his real account,he'd have been banned with it obviously. Respect the original member after all ths? Cmon...And I dont find anything entertaining about this thread. You lost me there... Completely. I was thanking you taking the time to share your thoughts, not him.

 

[Tony8179]

When did this thread get all emo? We're men (for the majority) talking about knives, right?

Anyway, people can "believe" whatever they like. People aren't selling these knives at table price and the secondary market prices aren't dropping, in fact, they have risen from 2011. Rick does not sell these knives at a discount directly to first responders and military while everyone else pays a higher price. Rick only sells directly to first responders and military. These prices aren't discounted, they are the table prices for the knives he makes. Let's not get it twisted either, Rick doesn't only sell these to our fighting soldiers, they go to police, firefighters, EMT's, and other first responders. I could be a volunteer firefighter in a town that hasn't had a fire in 30 years and be able to contact Rick, give him my info, and order my knife.

The only chances a non first responder or military personnel has to get a table price Hinderer is to win the lotto at Rick's table during a show, find a dealer who is not looking to make money, depend in the kindness of a fellow forumite, or have a first responder order the knife for them.

On a side note, I tried to order a knife for my brother in law, who is a state trooper, and I couldn't even get anyone to respond to my emails. He ended up with a Gayle Bradley and a ZT 0550 instead. No, I was not trying to order a knife for myself.

 

[Jaytaylor]

These threads always tend to get heated and lead to personal attacks or generalisations about the people who own Hinderers from those that do not.

The typical tactic to discredit with the statement "trying to justify the purchase" as if there is no good reason to own an XM.

Shame really, it is just a minor form of trolling and detracts from good intelligent, constructive debate.

One very big factor which had not been mentioned here is the design, the XM is an iconic folder and one of the best production folders on the planet (IMO)

Do I think an XM is worth $800? No.
Do I think a custom XM is worth up to $3500? No.
Do I believe it will cut and perform knifey tasks better than a quality $100 folder? No.

I paid the secondary prices because I appreciate great design and quality, I love the fact that the XM has a host of customisable options, the bling as was mentioned earlier in the thread is optional.
The XM is tough as hell and inspires confidence in its solid feel.
They are rarely faulty, easy to strip and clean, easy to flip open - just a damned good design.

The price of admission was my only option, I researched, planned and saved to get my first XM, it was an informed purchase, status has nothing to do with it, nobody I know has ever heard of Hinderer.
My first XM had been carried daily since getting it about 10 months ago, it gets used, covered in crap, cleaned and reused, I've put some heavy use damage to the edge, reprofiled it and back in the pocket.

It ain't for everyone but that's the beauty of diversity.

WRT a comment earlier in the thread regarding Ti frame locks as being a fad, I believe Ti frame locks have been around since the mid 90s, that is hardly a fad.

 

[FCM415]

Yeah, and from my posts, I feel like Im guilty of much less just a couple of opinions and ideas so I can actually afford one and Im the one who gets hosed.

I find your entire post highly agreeable with my personal sentiments on the subject, but Im the only one who got personally attacked on this thread. Over and over again. I've already said on like, the second page that I'll keep my ideas/thoughts on the subject in the future to myself but it just wont stop. I didn't criticize anyone for what they do or anything. Sorry Im just in shock as I've spent a lot of time here lately, more than any forum Ive been a part of. Enjoyed my time here. I might have been a little naive in not seeing this coming... But its so hard to get a point across in words it seems people fill in the blanks and assume things about my positions n mix it with everyone's else's negative comments on the subject. I have no problem with people paying 800 bucks for one, why are you all crapping on me? I wish I was in a position to be able to spend that much. As a plumber, with mortgage, two car notes and a wife in grad school I can't. I'd love to have a Hinderer... Wouldn't touch a fake... But that's not enough is it. Someone's gotta wear the Dunce hat.

 

[Jaytaylor]

Yeah, and from my posts, I feel like Im guilty of much less just a couple of opinions and ideas so I can actually afford one and Im the one who gets hosed.

I find your entire post highly agreeable with my personal sentiments on the subject, but Im the only one who got personally attacked on this thread. Over and over again. I've already said on like, the second page that I'll keep my ideas/thoughts on the subject in the future to myself but it just wont stop. I didn't criticize anyone for what they do or anything. Sorry Im just in shock as I've spent a lot of time here lately, more than any forum Ive been a part of. Enjoyed my time here. I might have been a little naive in not seeing this coming... But its so hard to get a point across in words it seems people fill in the blanks and assume things about my positions n mix it with everyone's else's negative comments on the subject. I have no problem with people paying 800 bucks for one, why are you all crapping on me? I wish I was in a position to be able to spend that much. As a plumber, with mortgage, two car notes and a wife in grad school I can't. I'd love to have a Hinderer... Wouldn't touch a fake... But that's not enough is it. Someone's gotta wear the Dunce hat.

There are far more important things in life than a pocket knife, you have a wife, roof over your head and I assume good health.
Don't let anyone on here get you down, it's just a forum and a fun place most of the time.
Tomorrows a new day and you'll have a different perspective on this thread.

Sometimes individuals here do annoy me, I just take a break from the forum every now and again, try to keep this place light hearted and fun, there's a lotta good folk on these forums and great community.

 

[Final Option]

Staying on the post about Hinderer prices. I have paid secondary prices for most of my Hinderer collection, except winning a lottery purchase at Blade last year for a custom XM 18 3 inch. However taking into consideration the plane fare, food and lodging, admission I probably paid more than secondary price. Was it worth it, he'll yes, Rick Hinderer is a custom maker, designer and well respected knife maker. Collecting and using knives by top makers will put a premium on their products. I also own a very large collection of Randall Made Knives. Waiting time is approx 5 yrs direct order for A Randall, if you want one immediately you will pay a premium price. No disrespect to any members who have posted however the economic law of supply and demand generally drives the market of highly sought after knives. That being said Hinderers are very well built and hard use knives.

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

I think at almost any price point, you can raise constructive criticisms regarding the value of a knife. From a $5 knife to a $2k+ knife, the performance to price ratio is most certainly not linear. I think the harsh truth is that most of us here (myself included) are over-paying. I doubt we actually cut the amount of material that warrants the number of knives we buy. If opening boxes is all you really do, then a pair of scissors, nail clipper, heck a ball point pen can do that.. all day.

Through each purchase, I find myself raising my "over paying" ceiling. $20, $50, $100, $130, $180, $200, $260, etc...

If I'm questioning the value of a $400 knife, it probably means I haven't worked my way up to that ceiling yet.

 

[tirod3]

Why people spend the money isn't for a better knife - they get one, yes, but another $100 doesn't make it a 100% better knife. What they get is male enhancement.

Somebody needs a knife, a $20 Chinese flipper from the flea market can do the job. But, it will not elevate the owner to a higher perceived level of alpha machismo in his tribe's eyes. And cross tribal boundaries, it actually makes them more a target in the other tribe's eyes. The mature individuals aren't the stone throwers, tho, it's the young dudes jockeying for place who are out there "buttting heads." < --- Note the reference to rams in rut. Same thing.

RH doesn't make junk, and he's no dummy, the real trick is making something that catches the juvenile male mind as a symbol of elevated status, and making just enough to push demand over MSRP to get one. That's freaking American capitalistic GENUIS, and there's hundreds of thousands of guys graduating from business school who would give their left reproductive organ to know the secret. He simply does it with handcrafted art, and does it in his lifetime. No sense being appreciated long after you're dead.

There's a long list of knife makers in America doing exactly the same thing for decades. Ever hear of Jim Hammond? Back before the internet - we're stepping into the wayback machine here, Sherman - he designed a 6'+ tactical fixed blade. The first public showing was 1981, before they even printed the first Knives Annual. That knife was still so popular and in demand it was one of CRKT's first collaborations in the mid 1990's.

Jim Hammond still makes knives, mostly high grade interframes now, with no lack of buyers. As his earlier customers matured, they wanted knives they could use in public, and maybe, not even use at all. He's not selling knives much anymore as much as art - the usefulness of his creations as a tool isn't the focus. What is the focus is the mental impression of the owner, the concept of the knife and it's value in enhancing the owner.

That doesn't change - most of buying a knife isn't it being a superior tool, because putting it in mundane terms of cost vs efficient design or being an effective tool would mean reviews would be the major forum focus, with long threads over the amount of pressure to cut, and the number of cuts before an arbitrary standard of dullness achieved.

Nope, it's all about rams butting in the forums, who's the big buck, top alpha, Big Dog. Well, the reality is that what knife you carry won't change it one bit. Work on leadership and character qualities can improve it - but you either have it, or you don't.

 

[FCM415]

Thanks JayTaylor for the kind words. I'm gonna take your advice and take it a step further. I'm a little tired, I've requested Esav for a self imposed ban. It all but ensures that I stay away. Enjoy the hot topic. Laters.

 

[bpeezer]

Why people spend the money isn't for a better knife - they get one, yes, but another $100 doesn't make it a 100% better knife. What they get is male enhancement.

Somebody needs a knife, a $20 Chinese flipper from the flea market can do the job. But, it will not elevate the owner to a higher perceived level of alpha machismo in his tribe's eyes. And cross tribal boundaries, it actually makes them more a target in the other tribe's eyes. The mature individuals aren't the stone throwers, tho, it's the young dudes jockeying for place who are out there "buttting heads." < --- Note the reference to rams in rut. Same thing.

RH doesn't make junk, and he's no dummy, the real trick is making something that catches the juvenile male mind as a symbol of elevated status, and making just enough to push demand over MSRP to get one. That's freaking American capitalistic GENUIS, and there's hundreds of thousands of guys graduating from business school who would give their left reproductive organ to know the secret. He simply does it with handcrafted art, and does it in his lifetime. No sense being appreciated long after you're dead.

There's a long list of knife makers in America doing exactly the same thing for decades. Ever hear of Jim Hammond? Back before the internet - we're stepping into the wayback machine here, Sherman - he designed a 6'+ tactical fixed blade. The first public showing was 1981, before they even printed the first Knives Annual. That knife was still so popular and in demand it was one of CRKT's first collaborations in the mid 1990's.

Jim Hammond still makes knives, mostly high grade interframes now, with no lack of buyers. As his earlier customers matured, they wanted knives they could use in public, and maybe, not even use at all. He's not selling knives much anymore as much as art - the usefulness of his creations as a tool isn't the focus. What is the focus is the mental impression of the owner, the concept of the knife and it's value in enhancing the owner.

That doesn't change - most of buying a knife isn't it being a superior tool, because putting it in mundane terms of cost vs efficient design or being an effective tool would mean reviews would be the major forum focus, with long threads over the amount of pressure to cut, and the number of cuts before an arbitrary standard of dullness achieved.

Nope, it's all about rams butting in the forums, who's the big buck, top alpha, Big Dog. Well, the reality is that what knife you carry won't change it one bit. Work on leadership and character qualities can improve it - but you either have it, or you don't.

Not everyone buys expensive knives to make them feel bigger and better than the other guys. People with really deep pockets will buy what looks good, feels good, and does exactly what they want. Expensive knives have a unique feel to them, extreme tolerances and ultra-quality materials just aren't available in reasonably priced high production knives. When someone can afford to spend $800 on a good knife without breaking the bank, they will not likely be the kind of person that will brag about it.

 

[Ankerson]

Staying on the post about Hinderer prices. I have paid secondary prices for most of my Hinderer collection, except winning a lottery purchase at Blade last year for a custom XM 18 3 inch. However taking into consideration the plane fare, food and lodging, admission I probably paid more than secondary price. Was it worth it, he'll yes, Rick Hinderer is a custom maker, designer and well respected knife maker. Collecting and using knives by top makers will put a premium on their products. I also own a very large collection of Randall Made Knives. Waiting time is approx 5 yrs direct order for A Randall, if you want one immediately you will pay a premium price. No disrespect to any members who have posted however the economic law of supply and demand generally drives the market of highly sought after knives. That being said Hinderers are very well built and hard use knives.

The problem here is we aren't talking about Randall's or even Custom knives at all for that matter, these are PRODUCTION knives 1st and foremost AND they are making more of them so it's not like it's a run of 1,000 or 2,000 and that's it........

Nobody is saying that they aren't good knives here, the problem really is for a lot of people is that there really isn't any justification for the inflated prices of $650 ~ $800+ for a PRODUCTION knife....

Sure some people will say yeah they are worth TWICE the original asking price and that's fine for them as there are people who will pay a high premium for a lot of different things.....

But then there are also people who will wait and pay a price that is more in line and reasonable, that goes for a lot of things out there... Gadgets etc.....

Why would some pay a 50% to 100% markup on something that they know full well will drop right back down in price in a few months when all they have to do is wait? That logic really never made since, but if they have money to burn then why not I guess because people seem to this a lot....... Thinking self gratification has a lot to do with it and or bragging rights.....

When I see things like that I remember an old saying that I heard a long time ago:

"A fool and his money are soon parted....."

In the end people will do what they want for their own reasons and they really don't have to justify or defend their purchases to anyone but themselves in the end..... Because they are the ones who have to live with those choices, nobody else......

We aren't talking about something like a Sprint Run CPM S90V CF Military here. (Highly Collectible limited production)

 

[mmarkh]

I guess Rick wants to keep production low to inflate prices. Chris Reeve doesn't have a problem keeping up with demand and I would put his production quality on a par with ANYONE. I really wanted to try a XM18 but not at prices where I could get a nice 1911.

 

[Maprik]

All very good and valid viewpoints but everyone is entitled to buy what they like. I've seen so many of these "is it worth the $$$" posts and they are really pointless. Compare to cars, guns, TVs, stereos, shoes, you name it. There is always a brand that has elevated pricing because of demand and it's usually for good reason. I buy stuff and I have a perceived value rating in my mind that is personal. If the object does not meet my internal value rating then I turn it around and someone else buys it who has a different value rating. I'll never buy a Porsche or BMW or Mercedes, etc., because my Toyota get's me from point A to point B no problem. Doesn't mean that I think those cars aren't worth it, they just aren't to me. Wanna spend $100,000 on a 1964 Chevy Camaro in mint condition? You can and I won't call you an idiot or small-pecker for doing so. Wanna buy a 1911? Great why not an ATA GSG instead of a Remington UMC? Penis size? Gimme a break.