Is this 'batoning' and firewood chopping with a knife a passing trend?

[Eero]

My suggestion would be to try it out for yourself for a while. Leave that axe at home and take out a Jungulas or BK9 with you. I used always carry a hatchet backpacking and now I only use a large fixed blade. It's just what I perfer.

 

[Shotgun]

What I see to be true about beginners, and younger people especially, is once they see this technique is valid (for certain things) it is fun to test the limits of beating on the equipment. MOF, it is fun to hammer on stuff and so you see users take the beatings too far on YouT and the forums. Reaching the point of equipment failure or taking on non-productive projects for the sake of using the knife in this way. Probably why you rarely see anyone using wedges to aid in splitting.

Exactly right. People new to this technique see guys on youtube trying to split a cord of wood with a knife and all they take away from it is how dumb it is. Because it is. Scale is lost here. If you're batoning a cord of wood you're doing it for fun not necessity.

I worked for Lower Colorado River Authority which supplies hydro-electricity via the dams to much of Texas

Thank you. This is exactly why most arguments start. I live in wet Oregon, not dry Texas. There's a huge environmental difference. Batoning is a very real thing here. Here's a good walkthrough for building a fire with this method. Notice the scale is on the small side.

http://riverside-graphics.net/Skills/RWfire.html

 

[Steve6387]

If folks like batoning, I say have at it. It looks like a lot of fun and I'll probably do it once I get my first big blade. Having said that: I've been backpacking and climbing for many years and I never baton'd wood. It was always easy enough to scavenge for whatever wood I needed. I also always carry a disposable lighter as opposed to the manual firestarters/sticks and etc.

 

[csisland]

I've been a fan of backpacking and climbing for many years and I never even heard of baton-ing till I started really studying knives here ;-) and collecting my own wood was never a problem. I also always carry a disposable lighter as opposed to the manual firestarters/sticks and etc.

I'd say the only thing batoning is good for is if you need to get to the dry wood on the inside to build a fire.

 

[singularity35]

I've been a fan of backpacking and climbing for many years and I never even heard of baton-ing till I started really studying knives here ;-) and collecting my own wood was never a problem. I also always carry a disposable lighter as opposed to the manual firestarters/sticks and etc.

Why not both?

 

[Steve6387]

Why not both?

Great question. The answer is weight. But my perspective is sort of narrow in that most of my backwoods experience is hiking and mountain climbing where weight is always an issue. Admittedly, it sounds silly for a single fire starting tool, but if I were to have a backup for every piece of equipment that might fail, then pretty soon I'd be carrying too much weight to cover any real ground. Most often a small group would distribute the spare parts we might need across the group. "Who has a spare tent pole? Spare stove parts? Who has some duct tape? Who has a secondary water treatment option? A spare lighter?" See what I mean? I do splurge on duplicates of everything when I'm camping with the family out of our camper or our vehicles. Everything becomes more fun and comfortable then.

 

[Blackie Scantling]

by Shotgun

"...I'd say if a fire is the only thing between you and death then you've made some poor choices."



Then one can say if you found yourself in a survival situation at all you've made poor choices. Poor choices or just bad luck, a fire may be the only thing between living and perishing in the wilderness. Thats been proven since the dawn of Man. You should of course have a means of making a fire in your "poor choice kit."

On another forum is a story about a boater in Canada that got stranded out in the wilds and resorted to cutting down some power poles knowing they would have send a line crew to fix them and therefor rescue him. Under the circumstances he wasn't arrested for vandalism but authorities advised anyone in the same situation to build a large fire and stay put. Wull duh...

 

[Shotgun]

by Shotgun

"...I'd say if a fire is the only thing between you and death then you've made some poor choices."



Then one can say if you found yourself in a survival situation at all you've made poor choices.

I would say most survival situations are caused by a string of bad choices. However my point was more on the order of if you're dressed for the weather than you really don't need a fire. Clothing is without a doubt the most important tool a person can carry. Everyone on this forum seems to think a knife or in your case an axe is the most important tool but that's bunk. My SAR training included a couple days on how to pick out the propper clothing. The amount of time they spent teaching knives/axes and their use was zero. When asked, the guy teaching(who passed airforce SERE once in his 30's and again in his 60's) said "maybe carry a saw but you shouldn't need it." I've also had too many conversations with backpackers who are more hardcore than I am who wouldn't even consider something more than a sak for a week long trip in the middle of winter in the Cascades. If you're focus is on your cutting tools rather than your insulating layers than you BET you've already started the trip making bad decisions.

If you want to lug around a 2 pound axe have at it bud. I understand that about as much as you understand batoning. I personally can't see the need for an axe even in a survival situation because I think that cumbersome 2 pounds can be better applied to other gear. YMMV

 

[Foilist]

For major wood processing, I like a saw or an axe.

However, I don't always care to carry one when hiking, so improvising with a knife is fine for me when preparing a small lunch fire. Also, to be perfectly honest, I am not particularly skillful with an axe or hatchet and I can often whack on a knife spine more precisely and safely than swinging an axe.

 

[sodak]

If I'm car camping, I might have an axe. Most likely, I'll be using a saw if I'm hiking, I'm not carrying an axe with me no matter who likes it, it's just dead weight if I'm hiking. For smaller wood, it's a tossup between sawing and batoning. I think batoning is MUCH faster and easier, although I use a small fixed blade (not a folder), just like Mors K. does it.

What are all you guys chopping that you need an axe for? I've never needed more than wrist thick branches, any thicker, and I let the fire cut it. I'm still scratching my head as to why you'd need an axe in the woods if you are just camping.

 

[Blackie Scantling]

I would say most survival situations are caused by a string of bad choices. However my point was more on the order of if you're dressed for the weather than you really don't need a fire. Clothing is without a doubt the most important tool a person can carry. Everyone on this forum seems to think a knife or in your case an axe is the most important tool but that's bunk. My SAR training included a couple days on how to pick out the propper clothing. The amount of time they spent teaching knives/axes and their use was zero. When asked, the guy teaching(who passed airforce SERE once in his 30's and again in his 60's) said "maybe carry a saw but you shouldn't need it." I've also had too many conversations with backpackers who are more hardcore than I am who wouldn't even consider something more than a sak for a week long trip in the middle of winter in the Cascades. If you're focus is on your cutting tools rather than your insulating layers than you BET you've already started the trip making bad decisions.

If you want to lug around a 2 pound axe have at it bud. I understand that about as much as you understand batoning. I personally can't see the need for an axe even in a survival situation because I think that cumbersome 2 pounds can be better applied to other gear. YMMV

Are you going to carry a suitcase full of different weight cloths of different insulation ratings to match temperature and activity changes or do you wear everything at once? If you're a downed pilot behind enemy lines doing evasive tactics, relying on the clothes on your back may be your only option. Other than that it's not even debatable that staying dry and being able to build a fire are your most basic, primary goals.

I don't carry an ax when I go backpacking / camping bud but if I planned on splitting and cutting dead trees for firewood instead of gathering and stomping it into pieces like I've been doing all my life I sure would strap on my 2lb. cruiser weight ax or at least a hatchet.

 

[BigBert]

I never understand these axe vs knife discussions; use what you're comfortable with and whatever is more fun. I prefer to use a Bahco Laplander Saw to section pieces, and a larger knife to baton the wood down. I personally feel it is a much more versatile (and much lighter) option than carrying an axe. A folding saw beats an axe every time, and it doesn't take much energy to baton wood.....and I'm less likely to end up with a sharp object lodged in my leg. I guarantee my 6oz saw will section a log faster than your 2lb axe.

 

[GregB]

I personally enjoy batonning. Also, I feel that in camp with several small children around, looking over my shoulder, it offers much more control of the edge in a much smaller space.

Greg

 

[midnight flyer]

Well, this is certainly a subject that never seems to die.

I think I know why I was never a fan of batoning wood, even after camping, hunting and hiking for the last 50 years or so of my life.

I don't have a set of woods where I can find clean wood, the correct diameter for my knife, and most importantly... saw cut on both ends! I have noticed that folks here like to post pics of them out in the woods splitting away on pieces of wood that are say, about 12 - 16 inches in length, fairly (if not completely) knot free, and square cut on both ends with a saw. In my outdoor adventures I have seen little of that type of wood available.

Also, we don't seem to have the needed stumps and/or extra large diameter logs (square cut as well) to use as a splitting table on our trails. I have hiked/camped/hunted a lot in Texas, some in Nevada, and all over Yosemite as well as a couple of other gorgeous parks in California. I haven't seen (although that certainly doesn't mean they aren't there!) nice splitting areas with wood at its proper length ready to be "processed", wood at its proper moisture level for clean and pretty splits, and a flat base support for good, safe batoning technique.

I have seen some pics posted here where the above requirements are not met. Where I go seems to fall out of that category all the time. But if all those requirements were met I might give it a go on my next overnighter. All I need now is the proper knife.

I had to split open a small branch (1 1/2 to 2 inches) years ago to get to dry tinder to make a fire for some coffee, so I know there is value in the process of batoning. I was extra careful though, as I didn't want to damage one of my favorite hunting knives. Thankfully, considering the expenditure of energy it takes to do large logs on the trail as some do here, I am glad I haven't ever had to baton for more than fire starter.

Robert

 

[Blackie Scantling]

Well maybe it's a regional thing Midnight Flyer. Because I grew up hunting and working with a rowdy element called cedar choppers, a bunch of Scots Irish woodsmen that haven't evolved much since their ancestors shot and cut their way through the Appalachians. They make their living with chainsaws and axes which includes selling firewood that includes split firewood. Some of the older ones still use wood stoves. I've never seen one of them use a knife to "process" wood, even when we were camping. Here in Texas, other than cedar which isn't considered fireplace or stove wood, our oak and mesquite are too hard and fine grained to split with anything but an ax or maul.

 

[Blackie Scantling]

I never understand these axe vs knife discussions; use what you're comfortable with and whatever is more fun. I prefer to use a Bahco Laplander Saw to section pieces, and a larger knife to baton the wood down. I personally feel it is a much more versatile (and much lighter) option than carrying an axe. A folding saw beats an axe every time, and it doesn't take much energy to baton wood.....and I'm less likely to end up with a sharp object lodged in my leg. I guarantee my 6oz saw will section a log faster than your 2lb axe.

I bet it won't. My double bit Kelly is paper slicing, dangerously sharp.

Besides, using a saw is work and who wants to work when on a campout while swinging an ax is fun. No kid ever got in trouble for sawing down a tree.

 

[chiral.grolim]

I bet it won't. My double bit Kelly is paper slicing, dangerously sharp.

Besides, using a saw is work and who wants to work when on a campout while swinging an ax is fun. No kid ever got in trouble for sawing down a tree.

A couple things, though neither very useful:

1) My Fiskars X17 Splitting Axe is "paper slicing, dangerously sharp" but can barely penetrate cross-grain due to the thick geometry of the blade... which is intentional as it is for splitting not felling. My Husqvarna axe is also razor-sharp and thinner geometry for felling but still cannot compete with my folding saw on trunks 1-4" in diameter. Below 1", the axe or a large blade is quicker, and above 4" the folding saw is just too short so I need a longer saw (preferred) or the axe. In EVERY case, the axe is heavier and more dangerous. Anyway, my point is that "paper slicing" doesn't equate to good wood processing.

2) Sad as it is, there are MANY parks where cutting down a tree will get you fined and banned


I live in rural Wisconsin and heat with wood - pine and oak harvested of the land. A number of my neighbors sell firewood which they cut with a chainsaw and split with hydraulics - equipment MUCH heavier, more noisy, and also more expensive not to mention the gas/oil requirement to operate. But all the wood I split is done by axe (large logs) or batonning a blade (smaller stuff). Using a lightweight knife and another piece of wood to process smaller stuff at home or at the campsite, I choked when someone suggested THIS to me. Why???

If mesquite is so difficult to split, I'm thankful it ain't around here! But what are those Texans heating against?? 40-50 degrees? Spending the effort to harvest heat from wood like that against temperatures that high... seems like your putting more energy IN than you get OUT

 

[Blackie Scantling]

A couple things, though neither very useful:


If mesquite is so difficult to split, I'm thankful it ain't around here! But what are those Texans heating against?? 40-50 degrees? Spending the effort to harvest heat from wood like that against temperatures that high... seems like your putting more energy IN than you get OUT

If parks didn't ban cutting of live or standing trees then it would be a wasteland of dead and dying trees and stumps.

Mesquite is very hard. When my backhoe hits an old stump sawed off at ground level it is harder than hitting a rock ledge. They made billy clubs or night sticks from mesquite that ring like an aluminum bat when striking something hard. No way a knife is going to chop or split that if it's dead.

Although our blue northers mixed with our humidity here in Texas can produce a piercing cold many northerners have never experienced, we don't have long, hard winters here where I live in Texas, luckily. Some people just buy little bundles of oak wood at convenience stores or from the side of the road to get them through the arctic blasts.

I dated a woman from Wisconsin and she was cold the whole winter she was down here, carrying on worse than any native.

 

[chiral.grolim]

If parks didn't ban cutting of live or standing trees then it would be a wasteland of dead and dying trees and stumps.

Yeah, which is sad, that folk would go about cutting live trees for no good reason... but there are also a lot of parks that ban cutting dead trees or even collecting sticks and branches for fear of people trampling all the native wildlife or leaving nothing to replenish the soil... which is odd given how few people really frequent those parks, it shouldn't be a problem *shrug*

Mesquite is very hard. ...No way a knife is going to chop or split that if it's dead.

I believe you, and sincerely hope it never takes root here where we really need our heat

... our blue northers mixed with our humidity here in Texas can produce a piercing cold many northerners have never experienced...

I dated a woman from Wisconsin and she was cold the whole winter she was down here, carrying on worse than any native.

Unless they're really just city-folk or are from out of state, every northerner has experienced worse. I bet that woman was expecting warmer weather. Did she move south because she hates the cold? It's amazing how much expectations can affect our sense of warmth.

But my experience in Texas (which is limited) is that the humidity is mostly on the coast where it doesn't get as cold, and where it does get cold is further NW where it's never "humid". I'm about to step outside into 60% humidity with windchill -3 F, and that's warmer than where i was born in MN Please don't bring us northerners any of your stupid petrified wood! I'm not sure I'm man enough to split a few cords of THAT every year, nor do i think my tools could take it


My conclusion - in Texas, you need a backhoe to baton and most knives aren't designed with that use in mind The rest of us just have pansy wood.

 

[sodak]

... I sure would strap on my 2lb. cruiser weight ax or at least a hatchet.

Right here is one of the unspoken causes of disagreements. A 2 lb axe is completely different than a hatchet. They cannot be put into the same category. My knives will never approach a 2 lb axe (although my saws will), and a hatchet will never approach some of my larger khurkuris for chopping. Completely different categories.

You mention cutting wood for a living, stuff like that. I thought we were talking about camping/hiking, and for that, I don't need anything larger than wrist sized, again, why carry 2 lbs of useless dead weight? If I need a fire for a long time, I take a big log, put the center in the fire, and keep feeding it in when it burns in two. Done. If it's too big to baton, it's not too big for my saw.

I guess if you're doing more than that (building a log cabin?), then yes, an axe would be handy. For me, it's not at all necessary.