Photos Is your modern knife traditionnal enough?

[draggat]

I think it’s better to participate in threads you have an interest in, and not try to tear down threads you aren’t. A screw is a screw. Metal is metal. A Barlow is a Barlow. Let other people enjoy what they enjoy.

The pattern is what defines it as traditional, not the materials used to make it and not even the features.

I'm just going to state here that I have much interest in this thread and in no way am I trying to tear it down, or anyone posting here. I love a modern knife and the blends that happen with traditional knives.

From what I understand, the idea of this thread is to explain what is considered an acceptable modern traditional and what is not. Personally, I think that anything with titanium, torx screws, ball detents, liner locks that rely on the lock alone to keep the knife open, and materials like G-10 and carbon fiber are definitely not what is generally considered as traditional, in this forum at least.

The following are faithful modern renditions of very old patterns. I think it's pretty obvious what is modern and what is not. Even the manufacturers know this. I guess what the heart of the question is, what is acceptable to post in this forum? Maybe a new subform should be created, which is devoted to the hybrids? I know that I would subscribe to that!

 

[hhmoore]

The subject interests me...but, arguably (perhaps), several of the knives posted don't pass the traditional sniff test.
The very title asks if these modern knives are "traditional enough", which acknowledges that they aren't traditional. Obviously, it is the moderators' decision, and if the thread stays in this section I'll not comment further on that aspect.

 

[B1GSHOT]

If the pattern is traditional, it's traditional per the definition from the mod. It doesn't matter if it uses titanium or screws. If you want to be cordial, post pictures of modern traditional you like. Don't try to tell other people's you don't like the ones they like. That goes against the spirit of camaraderie we have going here.

When I was a kid and I said, "I don't like Brussel sprouts." my grandmother corrected me... "Brussel sprouts are the LEAST YOU LIKE." And she made me eat them.

By the way, that Ram's Horn Lionsteel Barlow is gorgeous. I have one on order. I'll post pics of it here when I get it.

 

[Will Power]

B B1GSHOT Right you are about The Ram's Horn Barlow, and the quality of construction/finish is more than impressive as is its steel. With regard to Titanium, I believe it's an element discovered in the c18th, processes for converting it into an alloy began began c 1910-1925 and it began to be used in war materials in the 1950s and outdoor gear somewhat later. But it's been seen in knives for a while and Lionsteel favour it for durability, light weight and LOOKS which although subjective are an important element in 'Traditional' knives. Here:

 

[B1GSHOT]

This is great. I had trouble finding photos of Lionsteel's Ram's Horn. The pictures on the site are quite different from each other. I really like the look of the pics I'm seeing here. I ordered a Barlow as a birthday present for myself. I should get it sometime this month. Can't wait. I love my Bestman with ebony. It's my one and only everyday carry.

 

[dantzk8]

If the pattern is traditional, it's traditional per the definition from the mod. It doesn't matter if it uses titanium or screws.

It matters. The rendition of a pattern can be modern as are the materials, their assemblies and the manufacturing methods.

If you want to be cordial, post pictures of modern traditional you like. Don't try to tell other people's you don't like the ones they like.

Oxymoron! We are on a traditional knives forum, we don't want to talk about modern knives. Liking, or not, modern knives is off topic.

With regard to Titanium, I believe it's an element discovered in the c18th, processes for converting it into an alloy began began c 1910-1925 and it began to be used in war materials in the 1950s and outdoor gear somewhat later.

I admire the tricks of a certain use of logic. Stainless steels, Chicago screws, synthetic covers are used since a good while, then high amount carbides steels, Torx screws, carbon fiber are traditional.
I thought that the tradition was made of elements evolving so slowly and surely that in a lifetime these elements seemed immutable. I was probably wrong, Titanium is traditional now.

I have to open a new thread. "Is my traditional knife modern enough?".

Dan.

 

[B1GSHOT]

We are talking about modern traditionals- traditional patterns made with modern materials and styles. If you have no interest in modern traditionals then move on to another thread that interests you. The mod already weighed in. Continuing to argue it is pointless.

 

[dantzk8]

We are talking about modern traditionals- traditional patterns made with modern materials and styles. If you have no interest in modern traditionals then move on to another thread that interests you. The mod already weighed in. Continuing to argue it is pointless.

Is it so hard to understand what tradition means?
Is it so hard to understand that " Modern traditionals" is a contradiction in the terms?
Is it so hard to understand what a forum is? A place where disagreements can be expressed. Don't be so fallacious in your argument to expect me to follow your advice.

Dan.

 

[Just Tom.]

It matters. The rendition of a pattern can be modern as are the materials, their assemblies and the manufacturing methods.

We are talking about modern traditionals- traditional patterns made with modern materials and styles.

I would be interested in hearing your opinions of knives with modern lines, but made with traditional methods and materials, like the “Le Thiers” pattern and some of the other re-invented “French regional” knives being made these days.

 

[B1GSHOT]

Post some pics of those, Just Tom. Sounds interesting.

 

[dantzk8]

I would be interested i hearing your opinions of knives with modern lines, but made with traditional methods and materials, like the “Le Thiers” pattern and some of the other re-invented “French regional” knives being made these days.

I don't have much to say about the so-called "French régional" knives. I've heard some fairy tales about their historical autenthicity and have had disappointing experiences with the heat treatment and with some (not minor) flaws. It was about 20 years ago. I think, from what i read, there are now some skilled makers in the business but i've never looked back.
Sorry.

Dan.

 

[Just Tom.]

Post some pics of those, Just Tom. Sounds interesting.

Stefan Schmaulhaus features many of them on his youtube channel. There may be better examples, but here are a few I turned up with a quick search:

 

[Barbababa]

They are, I think. I miss the days when anyone who didn't read them was taken round the back of The Porch, and Chiclet-whipped!! :grumpy:

Hope you're feeling better soon Frank

I remember being lectured in the lambsfoot thred when new to the forum (still pretty new) To me, that said this a serious forum, not facebook

 

[JohnDF]

I don't believe that a knife's materials can determine if it's Traditional or Not.

Different synthetic materials have been used for handle material for ages. These materials have changed over the years when better products came out. Look at the switch from using Celluloid to the more stable Delrin. So, I don't have any issue with the use of Micarta, G10, or Carbon Fiber today, it seems like a natural evolution.

I think the same thing can be said for the metals used for liners, bolsters, and blades. As better materials were created, they got added to the lineup, like adding Stainless steels to the blade offerings. I think todays Super Steels are just a natural evolution of things. So, I really don't have a problem with the use of Titanium or Super Steels on Traditional knives.

There has also been older Traditional knives that have used screws to fasten the handle slabs to the liners, so I can see that being very traditional as well. It seems a Torx screw would just be another case of the natural evolution of using a better designed material, I don't really have a problem with those being seen as Traditional either.

 

[JohnDF]

While I think the knife's materials can change over time, I also think there are things that can't change without actually leaving the realm of Traditional knives....

While the use of Torx screws to attach handle slabs seems like a natural progression, the use of Torx screws to assemble the entire knife seems like a giant leap forward... leaving the realm of Traditional knives. And if screw-together construction is a giant leap, then adjustable pivot pins is a quantum leap. Now I'm not saying you should not post pictures of these knives, I'm not saying these knives break the rules, and I'm not saying you can't absolutely love these knives. I'm only saying that I ( read that as only ME) find these features to be Non-Traditional. It's obvious that these knives have found a home here and I'm not crying to get them removed, I'm only giving my personal opinion on the matter.

Carry on...

 

[Heimdall82]

From what I understand, the idea of this thread is to explain what is considered an acceptable modern traditional and what is not.

I guess what the heart of the question is, what is acceptable to post in this forum? Maybe a new subform should be created, which is devoted to the hybrids? I know that I would subscribe to that!

Exactly! I know what makes a traditionnal a "pure traditionnal design" (GEC, RR, RRR, Case, CC, Boker, etc) but with all the modern makers trying to make a new (and sometime original) traditionnal pattern based knife, it's hard to know which one will respect the rules or not...

The best examples are the James Wayland and Lionsteel Barlows. They are cleary a traditionnal barlow pattern, they are slipjoint with nail nicks but they are made of modern materials. My Penas Barlow got almost the exact same Barlow look and material... but it's a front flipper (with a nail nick) and it's a frame lock.
Another example is the Swiss Army knife... i saw a lot of them in this subforums, i know they are being made since 1897 (can wait to try to get one of the Replica 1897), i'm a big fan of SAK, but they are clearly multitools... but most of the SAK meets all the criterias to be condidered a traditionnal knife, same as a Camp/Scout tradionnal pattern.

I'm prefer tradionnal knives over modern "tactical knife" but there a sweet spot between them, which i call "hybrids" and/or "gentleman knife". They are classy, modern, sleek and don't scare "non knife people".
More and more makers makes them nowadays, i think the new subforum would be a great idea! i would subscribe fore sure too!

 

[Heimdall82]

This is great. I had trouble finding photos of Lionsteel's Ram's Horn. The pictures on the site are quite different from each other. I really like the look of the pics I'm seeing here. I ordered a Barlow as a birthday present for myself. I should get it sometime this month. Can't wait. I love my Bestman with ebony. It's my one and only everyday carry.

Here's is a picture of my old "Barlow lineaup" (All theses barlow are slipjoints with nail nicks.). I really love these Lionsteel barlows, i had a Lionsteel Shuffler in "blond ram horn". Traded it but i'll probably get another one later. Great little EDC knives!

 

[Will Power]

I'm very thankful that knifeswapper was able to put together the 2020 Forum Knife under extreme difficulties due to Covid unfolding and being able to involve a non US manufacture for a change. I think it's a wonderful carry and is a firm favourite together with 2014 and 2018 editions.

I assume that those who didn't like the design didn't buy it and stood away from the threads, just as I didn't care for the 2019 knife and opted out. I don't recall a storm of protest about it being insufficiently 'Traditional' sporting alien characteristics or being some manner of Trojan Horse that was poised to sweep away all that was comforting and hallowed The pivot pin is an interesting nod to the aesthetics of the Bird's Eye pivot and looks well at home- in my opinion.

Most of this resentment about Contemporary Traditionals or Moditionals etc is centred around an aesthetic dislike of the designs and execution of these knives, that allied to some kind of moral disapproval..... Fair enough, we all have aesthetic notions, I no longer own any Canoe patterns, Toothpicks or full Congress knives as I find them ugly and very impractical- but I don't berate people for having an entirely different taste palette.

Forum Knife 2020 from Viper, Italy in Ram's Horn. A satisfyingly vast variation in scale slabs too, individuality lives on.

 

[Will Power]

 

[Just Tom.]

I don't berate people for having an entirely different taste palette.

Let’s put that assertion to the test, shall we?: