Jimislash has a new Competition Chopper

[bellyfulls]

Empty Boat

 

[not2sharp]

"Significant differences?" More like "tweaks."

If it was significantly different, no one would need to explain it.

Is suspect the significant difference would have been the switch to junk steel. I would like to know what steel Mr. Wallace had originally proposed for the knife.

n2s

 

[jdk1]

This whole beef would have been better served if it was kept in-house.

Airing grievances like this to the public is not helping either party.

My opinion only of course.

All opinions are valid, but I respectfully disagree. I think there's a lot of value in this sort of thread. IMHO, its shown another typical aspect of "business as usual" in corporate America. We've all seen changes in Cold Steel since GSM acquired it, many of them predicted well in advance because we've seen this movie before, and this debacle is yet another.

I consider this situation, and both sides have made their case, to be a typical slimy business practice. its perfectly legal, but demonstrates GSM putting money before integrity. Wallace isn't wanting credit, but is pointing out that Jimislash didn't really design the "Jimi Slash Chopper" and, at most, made suggestions for slight changes to fit his hand better. The claims of "design teams" and such by GSM have fallen on their face IMO.

So, unscrupulous business practices can now be added to the list of reasons Cold Steel now exists in name only. Honestly, GSM trying to tell everyone 4034 was a great steel worthy of the silly high prices they're asking was enough to turn my stomach. LT created and ran a different company and we've all watched it slowly melt away and become another SOG or Gerber.

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

There were a few comments / questions directed to me so I wanted to address them.

#1 My separation from GSM:
I was carried over to GSM from CS with my first day being Dec 1 2020. I remained in the original Cold Steel R&D shop as its sole employee. Nov 1 2021 I received a call from the supervisor of my direct supervisor. He told me my last day would be Nov 30 2021, just one day shy of a full year. Obviously I asked why. He told me that it was not a reflection of my work as everyone was very pleased with all samples I sent in. He said it was due to the fact that GSM had acquired another company and they had a bigger, better equipped machine shop. Also he stated that the cost of me working remotely with rent, utilities, materials, etc.. were high for just one person in my location. He thanked me for my professionalism during my time there and especially during the phone conversation. I finished my remaining time there doing what I was paid to do and left on Nov 30 2021. The lease ended and all GSM contents were sold. I had no hard feelings about my termination as is was a business decision and not personal or a reflection of my work ethic and work I accomplished. Since then my opportunities have greatly increased and I’m currently working with four other manufacturers in design, prototyping, and production. So I’m not bitter about my separation from GSM.

#2 My custom knives:
I worked heavily with Doug Wilson at Yellow Hawk Customs. I collaborated with him on a few of his designs, primarily the DW Backcountry. There are many YouTube videos showing my knives with the bulk of them by Doug as most of my clients sent knives to him for sheaths. I told Doug roughly a year ago that I would no longer be making custom knives. This is publicly stated in one of his videos about a year ago. Joshua Blankenship of Ankura Knives has since taken over the role of making the DW Backcountry that I originally made. Since then I’ve made only a few knives for personal use. The knives I’m now focused on are prototypes for production. That all being said I will still address customer issues but I haven’t had a single one. I simply don’t have the time to devote to custom knives and complete them in an appropriate time frame. Lastly my last instagram post was Apr 2021.

As for my steel choice recommendations that was addressed in my post #203 in my emails to Jimi. I stated that I believed it should be CPM3V as it was best suited for what CS was currently using and had a good track record for them regarding performance.
I hope this clears up any confusion and questions.

This is the video on YouTube from Yellow Hawk Custom Outdoors. 33:30 time. Not sure how to link the video but you can verify if you want. It’s on his channel 11 months ago.

OUR CUSTOM KNFE AND SHEATH SYSTEMS AVAILABLE- ANKURA KNIFE CO. AND YELLOW HAWK CUSTOMS OUTDOORS

 

[craytab]

Since then my opportunities have greatly increased and I’m currently working with four other manufacturers in design, prototyping, and production.

There is no way GSM is going to attach the name of a former in house designer to a significantly modified prototype knife that they are angling to be a promoted product for their bladesport sponsored celebrity contestant, especially when said in house designer is now designing four other places. This is just business.

 

[jdk1]

There is no way GSM is going to attach the name of a former in house designer to a significantly modified prototype knife that they are angling to be a promoted product for their bladesport sponsored celebrity contestant, especially when said in house designer is now designing four other places. This is just business.

Just to reiterate, Wallace never wanted his name attached to anything, nor did he want credit. He just called BS on GSM saying Jimislash designed it. He did nothing more than call out deception with some pretty solid documentation. Shining a light on darkness is something we need much more of, not less.

 

[Your Name Goes Here]

There is no way GSM is going to attach the name of a former in house designer to a significantly modified prototype knife that they are angling to be a promoted product for their bladesport sponsored celebrity contestant, especially when said in house designer is now designing four other places. This is just business.

I guess that is the GSM (and other companies ?) difference. The Lynn T owned Cold Steel gave credit to designers that were not "in house", at least I believe (I could be wrong) they were not in house or current designers at the time.

As I remember this description and more importantly to me, the credit given, a quick search in the 2009 Catalog (text copied from catalog - please GSM, don't delete the catalogs):

"Our Pendleton Hunter, which was produced in collaboration with custom knife maker, Lloyd Pendleton, . . . Lloyd’s unique drop point design makes field dressing and skinning chores a snap . . . The handle of the Pendleton Hunter also re-flects Lloyd’s genius . . . To house the Lloyd Pendleton Hunter’s razor sharp blade, it comes . . ."

Also -

"We are grateful to custom knife maker, Phil Boguszewski, for his design influence and help in the creation of the Ti-Lites . . ."

 

[Your Name Goes Here]

There is no way GSM is going to attach the name of a former in house designer to a significantly modified prototype knife that they are angling to be a promoted product for their bladesport sponsored celebrity contestant, especially when said in house designer is now designing four other places. This is just business.

And I agree, there is NO WAY, GSM will do this : )

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

Just to reiterate, Wallace never wanted his name attached to anything, nor did he want credit. He just called BS on GSM saying Jimislash designed it. He did nothing more than call out deception with some pretty solid documentation. Shining a light on darkness is something we need much more of, not less.

That’s sums it up perfectly.
When I was employed with CS during the Lynn Thompson era I was a paid designer and was given credit for my designs that CS produced.

 

[craytab]

Just to reiterate, Wallace never wanted his name attached to anything, nor did he want credit. He just called BS on GSM saying Jimislash designed it. He did nothing more than call out deception with some pretty solid documentation. Shining a light on darkness is something we need much more of, not less.

Okay, but there is no way getting around saying "that guy didn't design that knife" without attaching another name to it.

Also, I'm still in the boat that there are significant differences between the designs. We have an expert here saying there is. There were other in house designers involved with and wthout wallace. Sounds to me like gsm came up with a template, asked slashi to make it his own, and moved forward with a multi pronged marketing campaign. Very corporate. This sort of thing is going to be something cold steel fans need to accept as their new reality, unfortunately.

 

[dogstar]

I hope the finished design actually looks different. That would be refreshing

 

[Juan Lopez]

Very corporate. This sort of thing is going to be something cold steel fans need to accept as their new reality

The problem is the inconsistencies:

It is and always has been our goal to continue the Cold Steel legacy that Lynn created.

This is either one or the other. Both are mutually exclusive.

 

[DocJekl]

We may not approve of GSM’s business model for Cold Steel, but Mr. Wallace, IMO, has no reason for his demands.

I work for a very large company and do many things for them including R&D. When we come out with a new product, my name does not go on it as the designer because I am on the company’s payroll. The company owns all the IP. I’m fine with this. As an employee, I cannot patent, trademark or lay claim to any of my ideas while employed by my company.

Would it be nice to have recognition? Sure, but really, who cares. I try to not have a “big head” or a sense of entitlement.

This whole thing is blown out of proportion, IMO, and isn’t winning either side any of my business.

In my opinion, there is enough difference between the two knives, but it really doesn’t matter.

BF sure loves drama.

Happy Thanksgiving All!

What demands am I making?

I apologize if I am incorrect. I was under the understanding that you are asking for recognition of this particular chopper design?

I’m not demanding recognition. I’m just stating that someone else is getting credit for work I did. It may be legally acceptable to do this but most find it distasteful. I worked for Cold Steel when Lynn was the owner, I was a paid designer, not doing contract work. Lynn gave me credit for every design I did while employed. For a company that claims to want to continue Lynn’s legacy I would assume GSM would do the same. I guess I know what happens when you assume.
Oh and no apologies necessary. You are invited to comment and question.

Exactly.

 

[DocJekl]

Let me preface this post by saying that I believe everyone who has participated in this thread has a reasonable perspective on the matter. No one is suggesting that Cold Steel or Jimislash has committed any crimes against humanity, or taken food out of the mouths of Mr. Wallace's children, lest anyone suggest that we have blown this matter out of proportion.

This post is on a somewhat different, but directly related topic.

Perhaps something good will come out of all this. At the very least this thread has succeeded in convincing someone from Cold Steel to visit this forum, someone who appears to be in a position to actually answer questions. And although we may not like the answers, it's more than we had before. So congrats on that, we'll see how long it lasts, and if it proves to be of any real value.

My hope is that from reading the posts in this thread, and others in this sub-forum, that our visitor from Cold Steel, and perhaps the company, will gain some insight into the mentality of at least a segment of the Cold Steel buying public. And although we who frequent this sub-forum may be a minority, we buy Cold Steel products, and many have purchased several (I have purchased fifteen CS knives, 14 over the past 8 years, and never returned a single one).

For the most part, the members of this forum are serious knife enthusiasts. Not overly serious, by "serious" what I mean is we don't buy knives just because they look cool, or because some internet celebrity endorses them.

The members of this forum are mostly mature adults, many in their 50's, 60's and even 70's. But members of all ages here place a high value on things like quality and customer service. And although old-world values have been abandoned by many in this world, they are alive and well here at Bladeforums. The members here still care about things like loyalty, treating the customer right, and company integrity.

When we buy a knife, we put a lot of thought, time, and research into our purchase, and we want to know that the company that sold it will stand behind their product. We want to know that when we contact them with a problem with their product that they will make it right, and not just give us the brush-off, or some carefully crafted corporate excuse.

Because when we feel that a company is only interested in taking our money, with no real concern for our satisfaction, and an empty void where customer service should be, many will spend their money elsewhere.

As longtime fans and buyers of Cold Steel products, ones who have frequently promoted Cold Steel and convinced countless others to buy their knives, we aren't looking for any special treatment, or discounts, or anything unreasonable, what we want is a company that values us as loyal customers, and brand ambassadors, as much as we value the Cold Steel products we buy.

Like I said, maybe something good will come out of all this. One can hope.

👍 but...


You missed the part about their customers (our forum members) having high ethical and moral standards, such as when judging the actions of the companies that we deal with.

 

[DK94044]

Okay, but there is no way getting around saying "that guy didn't design that knife" without attaching another name to it.

Also, I'm still in the boat that there are significant differences between the designs. We have an expert here saying there is. There were other in house designers involved with and wthout wallace. Sounds to me like gsm came up with a template, asked slashi to make it his own, and moved forward with a multi pronged marketing campaign. Very corporate. This sort of thing is going to be something cold steel fans need to accept as their new reality, unfortunately.

New Designed Cold Steel Axis machete… oddly “similar but totally different” compared to the Gerber Gator Machete Jr, but the grip is different and many other changes were made so it’s ok. More of the same BS blister pack garbage.

 

[Wallace Edged Tools]

New Designed Cold Steel Axis machete… oddly “similar but totally different” compared to the Gerber Gator Machete Jr, but the grip is different and many other changes were made so it’s ok. More of the same BS blister pack garbage.

Thankfully that one I had no part of. Could be the work of the elusive “Three Man Design Team”🤔

 

[Lorien]

I apologize in advance for having nothing of value to offer this conversation. But I just read all 13 pages of it and just have to say how thankful I am that this stuff is being discussed out in the open.
It's a really interesting topic, (to me) and also instructive. I learned a lot, so thank you to the OP and to all the thoughtful responses made up in here.
Designing cutlery is a tricky occupation to navigate, I've found- in large part because of all the stuff that goes unsaid.
👍

 

[ricklikesknives]

Random thoughts from some guy on the internet who has read most of the last 13 pages..

Mike Wallace acknowledges that he was employed by GSM and his designs while employed by GSM are the intellectual property of GSM (this is really the be-all-end-all here.. right or wrong, by signing an employment agreement with GSM, Wallace has given up any personal stake in this design, or any other of "his" designs while employed by GSM). Mike Wallace acknowledges that Jimislash reached out to him, interested in the design, offering to buy it. Wallace acknowledges that he informed Jimislash that the knife design was GSM IP and advised him that any deal must go through GSM. Jimislash and GSM arrive at a mutually beneficial agreement which gives agency over the design to Jimislash. Design tweaks are made with input from Jimislash.

Regardless of Wallace’s sour grapes and the personal opinions of random folks on this forum.. right, wrong, or indifferent.. the sequence of events listed above, which appear to be generally agreed upon by Wallace and GSM, all seem above-board to me. Sometimes that’s just how business works. When you’re employed by a company like GSM you give up any agency over your designs. My advice to Wallace (not that I expect he'll take it) would be to move on.. for sure, to stop talking about this nonsense on the internet.. and maybe re-read any employment agreement that was signed while employed by GSM. At a certain point, sharing so much propriety information about the company may be flirting with legal action..

It's nice to see a GSM rep participating in the fray, I understand it’s not something that has been consistent around here.. I imagine the warm response he has received here will endear him to stick around..

 

[dogstar]

Random thoughts from some guy on the internet who has read most of the last 13 pages..

Mike Wallace acknowledges that he was employed by GSM and his designs while employed by GSM are the intellectual property of GSM (this is really the be-all-end-all here.. right or wrong, by signing an employment agreement with GSM, Wallace has given up any personal stake in this design, or any other of "his" designs while employed by GSM). Mike Wallace acknowledges that Jimislash reached out to him, interested in the design, offering to buy it. Wallace acknowledges that he informed Jimislash that the knife design was GSM IP and advised him that any deal must go through GSM. Jimislash and GSM arrive at a mutually beneficial agreement which gives agency over the design to Jimislash. Design tweaks are made with input from Jimislash.

Regardless of Wallace’s sour grapes and the personal opinions of random folks on this forum.. right, wrong, or indifferent.. the sequence of events listed above, which appear to be generally agreed upon by Wallace and GSM, all seem above-board to me. Sometimes that’s just how business works. When you’re employed by a company like GSM you give up any agency over your designs. My advice to Wallace (not that I expect he'll take it) would be to move on.. for sure, to stop talking about this nonsense on the internet.. and maybe re-read any employment agreement that was signed while employed by GSM. At a certain point, sharing so much propriety information about the company may be flirting with legal action..

It's nice to see a GSM rep participating in the fray, I understand it’s not something that has been consistent around here.. I imagine the warm response he has received here will endear him to stick around..

I think your assessment is on point. The original sin is the assertion that Jimislash is the designer of this knife, when clearly, he is not. I think Wallace was able to make this point.

 

[Chefget]

Wonder why manufacture reps don't appreciate it here? 🤔 🤔