Jimislash has a new Competition Chopper

dogstar said:
The whole bit about giving credit is not what I am saying.
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But isn't that exactly what you go on to say:
dogstar said:
They could have just acknowledged that Mr. Wallace was the key contributor when he was on staff, and the product is now endorsed by Mr. Slash.
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dogstar said:
Instead, they tried to minimize Wallace's role and doubled down on the claim that Mr. Slash is the designer of this knife. Like I said before, instead of correcting a mistake, people lack the humility and integrity to do the right thing, and exacerbate the situation.
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How did they try to minimize Wallace's role? If Slush is giving significant input to an existing production design template that GSM came up with (remember, Wallace is a staff designer for GSM so all that he does is theirs), are they not within their right to say Slashula designed it? I mean, from what I can tell, there is only so much wiggle room possible in a comp chopper design, so any modifications can be significant.

Nathan the Machinist said:
In my opinion, those look like two significantly different comp choppers.
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I trust Nathan's opinion and the GSM guy laid out those changes pretty well.
 
jlauffer said:
My understanding is that Mr Wallace is not actually seeking credit...his issue is with Jimi getting credit for his design. I get that, but I do think that enough things were changed, supposedly at Jimi's request, that it can be argued he deserves some credit. As dogstar says above, they could have both been acknowledged to make it win-win.
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Acknowledged how? Putting a former employee's name on it, one who is selling his own products? Not sure that makes sense either.
 
craytab said:
Okay, but imagine a world where every company lists off every person who designed an element to every product. I mean, where do we want the line drawn on giving credit?

Further, what's the story of Mr. Wallace's exit from GSM CS? You see a lot of companies giving credit to former employees who go out on their own in the same line of work and as direct competition? Especially when they don't have to and it is reasonably well accepted not to do so? I don't know, this seems like pretty standard stuff.
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It's not about giving credit where it is due. No one expects that.

The problem is whether they are giving credit where it's not due... or true.

If it's not designed by Jimi, then it's a lie to say it is. And that's not ok.

And that is what this discussion is about, in my opinion -

1. What part was designed by Jimi
2. And is that part significant enough to truthfully say Jimi was the designer

For the first question, I haven't seen any evidence of Jimi making any design choices, and I doubt we will. It will probably come down to a matter of taking Shaun's word for it or not.

For the second question, it's more of a philosophical question. The Knife of Theseus. You can give an opinion, but not really an answer.
 
craytab said:
But isn't that exactly what you go on to say:




How did they try to minimize Wallace's role? If Slush is giving significant input to an existing production design template that GSM came up with (remember, Wallace is a staff designer for GSM so all that he does is theirs), are they not within their right to say Slashula designed it? I mean, from what I can tell, there is only so much wiggle room possible in a comp chopper design, so any modifications can be significant.


I trust Nathan's opinion and the GSM guy laid out those changes pretty well.
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You're right. GSM doesn't HAVE to do anything. It'd also be nice if they didn't do the minimum.
 
Pennlu said:
I get the “as a paid designer“ aspect of this situation as it relates to any liability or GSM’s legal right to do what they did. It just seems in really bad taste to take a knife someone designed and made, let someone make a few suggested tweaks, and than slap their name on it. This is in regard to weather the origional designer gets any credit or not as a paid employee.
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That begs the question if the changes are significant enough? What about the other people who worked on it? Where do we draw the line in giving credit to employees?
 
Inspector Lestrade said:
It's not about giving credit where it is due. No one expects that.

The problem is whether they are giving credit where it's not due... or true.

If it's not designed by Jimi, then it's a lie to say it is. And that's not ok.

And that is what this discussion is about, in my opinion -

1. What part was designed by Jimi
2. And is that part significant enough to truthfully say Jimi was the designer

For the first question, I haven't seen any evidence of Jimi making any design choices, and I doubt we will. It will probably come down to a matter of taking Shaun's word for it or not.

For the second question, it's more of a philosophical question. The Knife of Theseus. You can give an opinion, but not really an answer.
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Yup, we will likely never know. What I do know is that GSM has provided evidence of significant differences, a respected dare I say expert has posted that they look significantly different, and to my eye they have some real differences.

So if we are taking giving the employee credit for doing their job off the table, why do we care how much input a celebrity "designer" has on a knife? Do we always care or just this time?
 
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
GSM is a corporation, got it. :thumbsup:

Wallace was a paid employee for the corp., check. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

JammySlush and Teats McGee are a couple of your chosen brand ambassadors that epitomize GSM's aspirations as a corporation. Crystal clear.
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And honestly, all that is the least of your worries. They are probably going to try to sell you this knife with 4034 @ $400. That should be the real concern for cold steel fans.
 
craytab said:
Yup, we will likely never know. What I do know is that GSM has provided evidence of significant differences, a respected dare I say expert has posted that they look significantly different, and to my eye they have some real differences.

So if we are taking giving the employee credit for doing their job off the table, why do we care how much input a celebrity "designer" has on a knife? Do we always care or just this time?
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"Significant differences?" More like "tweaks."

If it was significantly different, no one would need to explain it.
 
dogstar said:
You're right. GSM doesn't HAVE to do anything. It'd also be nice if they didn't do the minimum.
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On the contrary, I think they are going beyond the minimum to "try" to improve the brand. Sponsoring bladesports. Getting their knife in blade. Getting celebrity endorsements (or designers if you like 😁 ). Problem is, they are kind of stepping in it while trying. Just my opinion, but they don't need to do all this, rather they should just continue the same old cold steel wacky fun yet quality products. But hey, they are the big corporate guys who think this is going to work in making a lot of money (the point of business), so what do I know....
 
craytab said:
Yup, we will likely never know. What I do know is that GSM has provided evidence of significant differences, a respected dare I say expert has posted that they look significantly different, and to my eye they have some real differences.

So if we are taking giving the employee credit for doing their job off the table, why do we care how much input a celebrity "designer" has on a knife? Do we always care or just this time?
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"Significant differences" is a matter of opinion. The have posted evidence of "differences"
 
craytab said:
On the contrary, I think they are going beyond the minimum to "try" to improve the brand. Sponsoring bladesports. Getting their knife in blade. Getting celebrity endorsements (or designers if you like 😁 ). Problem is, they are kind of stepping in it while trying. Just my opinion, but they don't need to do all this, rather they should just continue the same old cold steel wacky fun yet quality products. But hey, they are the big corporate guys who think this is going to work in making a lot of money (the point of business), so what do I know....
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Meh, Lynn C. Thompson was the only celebrity CS needed. All this noise is but a fart in the wind. They are pretty much acting out the outdoors sporting goods playbook. Only this time, a former employee got upset. Instead of throwing him a bone, they chose to thumb their nose. Not surprising, but disappointing nonetheless.
 
To answer a few questions….
  • We are not finished making changes to the design, small changes over multiple iterations make for large differences in design. Anyone who is familiar with product development and design knows how much a product can/will change over the course of the development process.
  • Our plan is to release these choppers using 3V
 
Inspector Lestrade said:
Sorry, but that doesn't work out, becuase other "experts" have given the opisite opinion.

You'll have to think for yourself I'm afraid. 🤔🤔🤔
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If you are intending to reply to me, please quote me.

Which other experts have posted here on the subject? I only count the one.

PS: the guy lodging the complaint does not count.
 
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