Joe's BME-2 video is...

[not2sharp]

As far as more scientific testing I would love to see a group of guys get together to do it.…

I would love to see some of the manufacturers do it. It might be helpful for comparison shopping to know certain key stress points on the products we are being sold; but as with other industries, doing that would require government regulation. Let’s not go there. The makers reputation and my own experience is usually enough to allow to select the right tools. Besides if we mandated the disclosure of 25 key criteria it wouldn’t be long before everything started to look the same, look what happened to our automobiles.

n2s

 

[The Knife Life]

It would be nice to see if there is any difference and collect data for future steel designing.
But I DON’T think Joe is competent of conducting it with such non-productive protocol and bias
How about get some OGs together and test some Busses (along with some classic knives like BK9 as a benchmark) in the Cliff way? Several runs, quantitated meansurements, data analyisis, strict control… hard but imperical

I would be very much down to participate like old times. 10-15 years ago there used to be meet ups coordinated like this on the Busse sub forum

As far as more scientific testing I would love to see a group of guys get together to do it.

I have done more scientific testing for performance and I have upcoming more sciency testing on smaller 1095 knives but people don't often do this kind of testing because it's a FRICKIN TON OF WORK.

It looks like fun but the reality is it's a huge money and time investment. Otherwise everyone would be doing it.

Let me be a fourth FIFTH ( not2sharp posted while I was typing this) to add to the call for both a get together AND some more formal standardized testing! I'd love this.

I had hoped to contribute LOTS more than I have so far in this regard but life has had other plans so to speak so I've been unable to play around much as I had hoped. Someday soon I still hope I can offer more to the community in this regard. I greatly appreciate everyone and anyone's effort towards useful data on knife steel and knife design performance! It's the basis for much of my purchases.

 

[beachmaster]

I would love to see some of the manufacturers do it. It might be helpful for comparison shopping to know certain key stress points on the products we are being sold; but as with other industries, doing that would require government regulation. Let’s not go there. The makers reputation and my own experience is usually enough to allow to select the right tools. Besides if we mandated the disclosure of 25 key criteria it wouldn’t be long before everything started to look the same, look what happened to our automobiles.

n2s

The problem is we need unpaid, authentic testing.
People don't want to buy a busse and break it, they don't want to buy 5 busses and break them through controlled testing, they don't want to spend a few weeks and hundreds of dollars to set it up, and they don't have hundreds of dollars to give.
People also don't want to see manufactures do it on their own because we don't trust a manufacture to honestly demonstrate their own knives capabilities and limitations because they have a motive for making their knives look good as we have seen from decades of stupid manufactures tests which are purposefully misleading.

So what you get is People like me and Joe X who do what we do because we are passionate about it- for him he does what he loves, for me I like more controlled testing and substance but I'm just now getting into my FIRST Busse's after almost 10 years because of the above.

 

[Cobalt]

Prove what?
The fact the new INFI is just A8-mod?

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/busse-and-or-cpk.1802192/page-5#post-20650631

Here is my testing of INFI multiple times. You will notice there is no silicone in any of it. that is not A8mod, which has silicone. If you have the actual test data for infi and the which blade was tested, post it. quoting a graph on zknives is worthless as he has been wrong in the past and that is what larrin quoted. Not very scientific. As you can see the last year I tested was 2003. Could it be that the formula changed after that? Maybe. But lets see the actual test, not someone chart of info he was given. A scientist should be able to dig up actual test data, not heresay from a chart on a website, lol

First up 1998 SHBM original run knife. Not A8mod. In the same sheet, 2003 FBM, not A8 Mod

Next up BME Bolo 2001 run not A8mod

 

[beachmaster]

Here is my testing of INFI multiple times. You will notice there is no silicone in any of it. that is not A8mod, which has silicone. If you have the actual test data for infi and the which blade was tested, post it. quoting a graph on zknives is worthless as he has been wrong in the past and that is what larrin quoted. Not very scientific. As you can see the last year I tested was 2003. Could it be that the formula changed after that? Maybe. But lets see the actual test, not someone chart of info he was given. A scientist should be able to dig up actual test data, not heresay from a chart on a website, lol

First up 1998 SHBM original run knife. Not A8mod. In the same sheet, 2003 FBM, not A8 Mod

Next up BME Bolo 2001 run not A8mod

I believe it was Mike Stewart who recently publicly said that Jerry himself said that INFI was A8 mod.
He made a post about it, I'm sure I have a screen shot somewhere.
He may have even shared a screen shot from Jerry. It's hard to say, it's been probably a year.

 

[patrickguignot]

quoting a graph on zknives is worthless as he has been wrong in the past and that is what larrin quoted. Not very scientific.

Hi Cobalt,
I'm sorry, I don't understand your message. Are we talking about the same thread I linked?
In it I provided the proof that Larrin Thomas tested the INFI composition of my Busse Park Ranger model with Optical Emission Spectroscopy (OES). He found the same composition than A8-mod.

And in this thread from 2021 you agreed (here is your post) that "it appears that the 2018 batch of INFI is A8mod".

 

[Cobalt]

I believe it was Mike Stewart who recently publicly said that Jerry himself said that INFI was A8 mod.
He made a post about it, I'm sure I have a screen shot somewhere.
He may have even shared a screen shot from Jerry. It's hard to say, it's been probably a year.

Mike Stewart is not someone who's word anyone should take. The same guy that told me personally(almost 20 years ago) he invented SR101 and it had higher chrome levels. When I tested it, it was 52100.

The same mike that has stolen from people

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bark-river-has-taken-16-000-of-my-money.585934/page-15

 

[Cobalt]

Hi Cobalt,
I'm sorry, I don't understand your message. Are we talking about the same thread I linked?
In it I provided the proof that Larrin Thomas tested the INFI composition of my Busse Park Ranger model with Optical Emission Spectroscopy (OES). He found the same composition than A8-mod.

And in this thread from 2021 you agreed (here is your post) that "it appears that the 2018 batch of INFI is A8mod".

When I said that I missed the silicone part. Have you looked at my graphs? Do you see silicone? I just want to see that actual test data showing that INFI is A8mod. Until then there is still no proof. And the only actual test data is mine, which you keep on ignoring. Not sure why people on here ignore my actual test data, but take someone on their word with no proof. I have tested INFI multiple times, SR101 and SR77. I have the actual compositions of all three. And they were all my knives.

 

[Nismo17]

Regarding my z knives link I was more focused on the pre 2005 date mentioned

I plan on running my own battery of prolonged destruction tests and making a video series. pre and post comp change. Just want to nail down a date . Ideally I’d like to confirm if the original BME is old comp.

I would then compare that to the BME2
Will also be a bit more easy on my wallet since those models can be had for cheaper

The BME was released in 2000 or 01 correct ?

 

[Cobalt]

Regarding my z knives link I was more focused on the pre 2005 date mentioned

I plan on running my own battery of prolonged destruction tests and making a video series. pre and post comp change. Just want to nail down a date . Ideally I’d like to confirm if the original BME is old comp.

I would then compare that to the BME2
Will also be a bit more easy on my wallet since those models can be had for cheaper

The BME was released in 2000 or 01 correct ?

The composition of your knife is this and it is NOT A8mod. This is from BME Bolo #7. So no it is not the original formula

 

[patrickguignot]

Here is my testing of INFI multiple times. You will notice there is no silicone in any of it. that is not A8mod, which has silicone. If you have the actual test data for infi and the which blade was tested, post it. quoting a graph on zknives is worthless as he has been wrong in the past and that is what larrin quoted. Not very scientific. As you can see the last year I tested was 2003. Could it be that the formula changed after that? Maybe. But lets see the actual test, not someone chart of info he was given. A scientist should be able to dig up actual test data, not heresay from a chart on a website, lol

First up 1998 SHBM original run knife. Not A8mod. In the same sheet, 2003 FBM, not A8 Mod

In the 1998 SHBM original run there is certainly no silicon but for the second chart (for the bolo) I don't see a value (there is no Si row) so perhaps this element was not searched?

Anyway I think we can trust Larrin (PhD in metallurgy and inventor of MagnaCut) to determine the composition of a steel so from my point of view the case is closed.

 

[Nismo17]

Interesting. Ok then.. well. my BMe bolo says

 

[Cobalt]

In the 1998 SHBM original run there is certainly no silicon but for the second chart (for the bolo) I don't see a value (there is no Si row) so perhaps this element was not searched?

Anyway I think we can trust Larrin (PhD in metallurgy and inventor of MagnaCut) to determine the composition of a steel so from my point of view the case is closed.

Not just the Bolo, but the FBM that was with the SHBM. So three different tests and no silicone. Sorry, no I don't trust anyones word. Show me the actual test data or it didn't happen. You are right, the case is closed. Modern INFI is not modA8 until someone provides the actual test data.

I will say, the newest knife I tested was the FBM LE from 2003. So could it have changed? sure. But show me the beef. I have dealt with plenty of scientists to know not to trust what comes out of their mouths and believe only the numbers.

 

[goldie]

Got to remeber even if it is A8 , its getting the best heat treat that can be given and thats a big factor .

 

[patrickguignot]

I will say, the newest knife I tested was the FBM LE from 2003. So could it have changed? sure. But show me the beef. I have dealt with plenty of scientists to know not to trust what comes out of their mouths and believe only the numbers.

The Patreon post from Larrin with the composition chart is not enough for you?

 

[ferider]

I’m with Cobalt wrt data, and I believe his.

Note that there is nothing wrong with A8mod when well done. I’d have bought my Busse knives also if Busse had labeled them A8mod.

 

[Cobalt]

The Patreon post from Larrin with the composition chart is not enough for you?

No it's not. That is someones writing. What knife was tested, when, the actual test printout?

It's like this. Some scientists writes down that the porsche Turbo S can do a 1/4 mile of 9.3 seconds. I respond, I actually ran the quarter mile in 10.2 seconds. And you tell me, I believe the scientist that has no actual printout of anything, just his word. Maybe it did 9.3. Show me.

 

[goldie]

I wonder whats a more heated debate, what is INFI or is the Sebenza worth it? Ive seen more arguments on these 2 topics in gthe last 20 years than all others combined.And we are supposed to be bashing Joe X not each other.

 

[willmtn1]

I think the JoeX videos are selling Busse kin blades. Its effective marketing! He says their terrible because he destroyed them but they're taking all reasonable abuse handily. He has to resort to concrete blocks and steel pipes to break them.

I have a gas powered chop saw and a cutting torch that work much better for those tasks!

 

[patrickguignot]

What knife was tested

As already explained it was my Busse Park Ranger.

when

Knife sent from France to Larrin January 10 2020.
January 18 2020 I had a mail from Larrin that he received my knife.
He posted the composition chart January 20 2020.

the actual test printout?

It's ridiculous. You imply Larrin tested the steel with Optical Emission Spectroscopy and had a printout of composition but then decided to lie in his Patreon article and post a different composition?
If that's what you really think then I guess nothing will convince you. After all even a printout can be photoshopped.