Joe's BME-2 video is...

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patrickguignot said:
As already explained it was my Busse Park Ranger.



Knife sent from France to Larrin January 10 2020.
January 18 2020 I had a mail from Larrin that he received my knife.
He posted the composition chart January 20 2020.



It's ridiculous. You imply Larrin tested the steel with Optical Emission Spectroscopy and had a printout of composition but then decided to lie in his Patreon article and post a different composition?
If that's what you really think then I guess nothing will convince you. After all even a printout can be photoshopped.
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I'm not on patreon. Only going off of what is posted in BF. If you are testing many steels, and you tested INFI, A8mod, K329 and other steels, it might be easy to mix up. Which is why raw data printouts are important, vs the interpretation of it. All I can tell you is that the BME Bolo that I had was tested three times and the results were the same. The FBM was tested three times and the results were as shown above. The SHBM was tested 3 times as well. The numbers are there for everyone to see.

I never implied that Larrin lied. I just said show me the actual test printout. Lets assume that his test is correct for your knife. Isn't it misleading to make a blanket statement that INFI is A8mod, knowing that there has been multiple INFI formulas. Might be better to say that INFI is generally a wood chipper style steel likely to always have around 8% chrome. Then we have Busse's own words that it is not A8mod. Are you implying Busse is a liar? I am just using your own logic against you now. But about the only statement that would have been accurate would have been to say that a 2020 INFI blade tested out to be A8mod. That's it. Nothing else. But because of Larrin everyone outside this forum thinks INFI is A8mod and that is simply not true. One data point does not make a conclusion.
 
Gravelface said:
Most Important data….from attacking a car like a monkey? And trying to break a knife at their thinnest point?

No design flaws are found as he uses the knives for things outside of their designs.
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Cobalt said:
What makes this irrelevant is that there is no consistency. I've said it already. I can wack with one knife at half power and the next at full power and you wont know the difference.
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I think you are being a little harsh. I have watched several of his vids over the last couple of years; and while Joe's test processes are not primarily or even secondarily scientific and aren't close to optimal for yielding useful information they are certainly not without merit imo. The fact that he swings the knife by hand without any effort to control the angle does probably introduce a large margin of error. However when he hits the brick and the iron pole (the latter for 10 mins) he does intentionally change up the angle until he has hit the edge multiple times from roughly most angles before eventually sort of locking into one of two positions for the brick and one of three positions for the iron rod (these are probably the positions where he has the best biomechanical leverage to hit the edge as hard as possible while deflecting shock to his wrists as much as possible. He switches between these positions as his cardio and joints dictates .
the angle at which the edge impacts the brick and pole is pretty consistent throughout his vids for each individual position (different for each given position) (I could list these 5 positions and angles but it would be tedious). Perhaps the simplest analogy to describe this is if you ever played dodgeball as a kid you kind of have to throw the ball just right to make it go as fast as possible and with muscle memory your arm eventually automatically throws it the same way at the same angle every time but you are five and you don't even know what an angle is. I think too many knives have been tested by joe in a consistent enough manner surpassing the busse's in durability (on average) by a large enough margin (the ash 2 did okay but the misstresses failed very prematurely) to make a compelling case that at the very least busse's marketing claims are very exaggerated and optimistic. "INFI represents what we have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel we've ever tested. It has unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests, and shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". INFI has an ease of re-sharpening that you have to see to believe and higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel" At worst they are downright disingenuous especially if infi is just a8 mod. Either they made those claims in bad faith or are just incompetent and somehow mistook at a decent budget steel for some advanced high performance cutting edge innovation both of which look bad.
 
patrickguignot said:
Okay I can accept this.
I recognize that I can't make a blanket statement about all Busses INFI knives sold since 2020. All we know for sure is the fact that my 2020 INFI Park Ranger was in fact A8-mod steel.
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We can also deduce that it was likely, a large run and likely it spanned an entire year. That would not be a stretch.
 
bladefiend1 said:
I think you are being a little harsh. I have watched several of his vids over the last couple of years; and while Joe's test processes are not primarily or even secondarily scientific and aren't close to optimal for yielding useful information they are certainly not without merit imo. The fact that he swings the knife by hand without any effort to control the angle does probably introduce a large margin of error. However when he hits the brick and the iron pole (the latter for 10 mins) he does intentionally change up the angle until he has hit the edge multiple times from roughly most angles before eventually sort of locking into one of two positions for the brick and one of three positions for the iron rod (these are probably the positions where he has the best biomechanical leverage to hit the edge as hard as possible while deflecting shock to his wrists as much as possible. He switches between these positions as his cardio and joints dictates .
the angle at which the edge impacts the brick and pole is pretty consistent throughout his vids for each individual position (different for each given position) (I could list these 5 positions and angles but it would be tedious). Perhaps the simplest analogy to describe this is if you ever played dodgeball as a kid you kind of have to throw the ball just right to make it go as fast as possible and with muscle memory your arm eventually automatically throws it the same way at the same angle every time but you are five and you don't even know what an angle is. I think too many knives have been tested by joe in a consistent enough manner surpassing the busse's in durability (on average) by a large enough margin (the ash 2 did okay but the misstresses failed very prematurely) to make a compelling case that at the very least busse's marketing claims are very exaggerated and optimistic. "INFI represents what we have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel we've ever tested. It has unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests, and shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". INFI has an ease of re-sharpening that you have to see to believe and higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel" At worst they are downright disingenuous especially if infi is just a8 mod. Either they made those claims in bad faith or are just incompetent and somehow mistook at a decent budget steel for some advanced high performance cutting edge innovation both of which look bad.
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I agree with you. I also noticed that Busse knives did not break again after the first break. The only exception is the first knife, which showed the worst results. After this, the knives did not break and were kept with the pipe for 10 minutes. Therefore, I think that INFI works well with this geometry and thickness only for knife lengths up to 5 inches. Anything longer is likely to break during such tests. it would be very interesting to see steel s1, s5 and h13
and it is also interesting to understand the nature of destruction. Is this destruction from the accumulation of fatigue? steel accumulates fatigue and stress, cracks and breakage appear. I watched about 15 lectures on the strength of materials, then this is low cycle fatigue. but I'm not sure. and of course, polished knives are better than sandblasted or coated ones, because in each depression on the surface a microcrack begins to form from the alternating load. ideal when the surface is polished and then has a hard coating... surface nitriding methods are also used to increase the service life of parts. or the reason for the failure is that the impact results in too great a load for these knives to withstand, and fatigue has nothing to do with it.
I think it doesn’t matter what name the steel has, the main thing is what properties it has.
 
bladefiend1 said:
I think you are being a little harsh. I have watched several of his vids over the last couple of years; and while Joe's test processes are not primarily or even secondarily scientific and aren't close to optimal for yielding useful information they are certainly not without merit imo. The fact that he swings the knife by hand without any effort to control the angle does probably introduce a large margin of error. However when he hits the brick and the iron pole (the latter for 10 mins) he does intentionally change up the angle until he has hit the edge multiple times from roughly most angles before eventually sort of locking into one of two positions for the brick and one of three positions for the iron rod (these are probably the positions where he has the best biomechanical leverage to hit the edge as hard as possible while deflecting shock to his wrists as much as possible. He switches between these positions as his cardio and joints dictates .
the angle at which the edge impacts the brick and pole is pretty consistent throughout his vids for each individual position (different for each given position) (I could list these 5 positions and angles but it would be tedious). Perhaps the simplest analogy to describe this is if you ever played dodgeball as a kid you kind of have to throw the ball just right to make it go as fast as possible and with muscle memory your arm eventually automatically throws it the same way at the same angle every time but you are five and you don't even know what an angle is. I think too many knives have been tested by joe in a consistent enough manner surpassing the busse's in durability (on average) by a large enough margin (the ash 2 did okay but the misstresses failed very prematurely) to make a compelling case that at the very least busse's marketing claims are very exaggerated and optimistic. "INFI represents what we have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel we've ever tested. It has unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests, and shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". INFI has an ease of re-sharpening that you have to see to believe and higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel" At worst they are downright disingenuous especially if infi is just a8 mod. Either they made those claims in bad faith or are just incompetent and somehow mistook at a decent budget steel for some advanced high performance cutting edge innovation both of which look bad.
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"INFI represents what we have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel we've ever tested. It has unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests, and shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". INFI has an ease of re-sharpening that you have to see to believe and higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel" And thats one of the reasons I went the custom route: I don’t like Marketing.
 
hugofeynman said:
"INFI represents what we have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel we've ever tested. It has unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests, and shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". INFI has an ease of re-sharpening that you have to see to believe and higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel" And thats one of the reasons I went the custom route: I don’t like Marketing.
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Just curious, what kind of warranty did you get with your custom blade?
 
Vlad22 said:
I agree with you. I also noticed that Busse knives did not break again after the first break. The only exception is the first knife, which showed the worst results. After this, the knives did not break and were kept with the pipe for 10 minutes. Therefore, I think that INFI works well with this geometry and thickness only for knife lengths up to 5 inches. Anything longer is likely to break during such tests. it would be very interesting to see steel s1, s5 and h13
and it is also interesting to understand the nature of destruction. Is this destruction from the accumulation of fatigue? steel accumulates fatigue and stress, cracks and breakage appear. I watched about 15 lectures on the strength of materials, then this is low cycle fatigue. but I'm not sure. and of course, polished knives are better than sandblasted or coated ones, because in each depression on the surface a microcrack begins to form from the alternating load. ideal when the surface is polished and then has a hard coating... surface nitriding methods are also used to increase the service life of parts. or the reason for the failure is that the impact results in too great a load for these knives to withstand, and fatigue has nothing to do with it.
I think it doesn’t matter what name the steel has, the main thing is what properties it has.
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That’s an interesting take. From what I’ve read on this forum, most Busse fans preferred SR-101 for short blades & INFI for longer blades. I’m not making an argument. Just sharing a preference I’ve seen several times.
 
ScoMa said:
That’s an interesting take. From what I’ve read on this forum, most Busse fans preferred SR-101 for short blades & INFI for longer blades. I’m not making an argument. Just sharing a preference I’ve seen several times.
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yes, many people can think and write like that. and everything is fine as long as you use the knife normally, for meat or wood. There will be problems with really tough tests. tests with a pipe show that this is a fallacy. Of course, steel works great even on a machete if you chop with a cutting edge. but if you hit with the spine, there will be problems.
 
Durability isn't anywhere near the most important factor in my knife purchases but it is busses claim to fame and the premise by which they distance themselves from other makers and justify charging 600+$ for production knives in an ingot steel. If they don't have that why bother buying them. For the claims on the premise of edge geometry I only have a very simplified understanding of blade geometry relative to some of you but neither the ash2 nor the ergo mistress have particularly thin geometries as far as I can tell... And had plenty of material at the tip and while the afbm has somewhat thin geometry for a chopper it had half inch tall chips after hitting the brick a few times... That is unacceptable for a near 1/4 inch thick knife; the grind isn't that tall ffs. Lastly I think joex tries to break most knives about equally hard ≈95% of the time. It would be easy to spot if you slowed down the footage and and had a basic understanding of physics ( I don't). I do however concede that he almost certainly went easy on the survival Lilly knife; that vid is ridiculous and he got shit on by a lot of people for it deservedly so, I don't know how he got a pass on that. The skrama vid is also suspicious but I am 50/50 on that one. He also claims that aus8 is the toughest steel he has experienced wtf? But overall he seems to go equally hard on most knives and the busses aside from the ash2 which as stated previously did ok were downright fragile and people need to stop making excuses for that.
 
Gravelface said:
Busse’s fragile…..oh wait. Stop. Hold up. I can’t breathe.
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I miss represented what I meant. This is closer to what I was trying to say. They are fragile for survival/combat oriented blades that make trade offs in cutting performance for the sake of durability made in the modern era. Sounds pretty soy though.
 
Gravelface said:
B bladefiend1 . Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Come back when you have actually used one.

Never mistake a lack of talent for genius, you give that buffoon too much credit.
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I dont have the time to respond to his book. But I read it and he accused me of being harsh yet basically accused busse of being disingenuous in his claims about INFI, and thats not harsh?


All I can say now is bladefiend, you are way off and you were harsh to Busse. You literally insulted Busse and said he lies about his product. I can't believe anyone with any sense even liked your comment. Wtf?
 
In general, INFI steel is good and no worse than other steels. you just need to make a knife with a thickness of 0.3 inches and Scandinavian slopes. so that the convergence is 2 mm at the cutting edge. then such a mount cannot be broken. I would love to buy such a knife, but I haven’t found anything like it.
 
Are we talking about the fragile ego of Busse fanbois?

Because I'm struggling here, why can't I partake in my favorite knife addiction without these harsh fanboi accusations?
 
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