jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2005
- Messages
- 47,357
So are you saying that i should not be hogging metal with the big double cut bastard file by putting all of my weight on it? LOL
-
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John White Old Glory D Guard WIP
- Thread starter Kevin Jones
- Start date
Sort of difficult to tell for sure, but the file looks like a mill bastard as opposed to a double cut file?
Peter
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
After the clip is sanded down, it's time to cut the shoulders. I'll clamp one of
John Perry's massive shoulder filing jigs onto the squarely marked shoulder,
and begin by filing the bottom corner flush. I'll start with a flat file, and when
it's close, finish with a mill file and an eighth inch chainsaw file, to radius
the tang into the ricasso. This radius, on the bottom and top of the tang,
spreads the working stress of chopping out enough to eliminate an abrupt
stress riser, and also avoids a right angle "notch failure" opportunity.
This will be a take-down, and I want the guard to fit snugly, but not have
to be pressed or knocked on and off. I also want the ricasso/ guard joint to fit
perfectly. I'll file an 8 thousandths channel down each side of the tang with
the edge of a mill file. Although this shoulder will technically be both a
stress riser and notch, the decrease in cross section is minimal, and there is
no working load sideways; unless, that is, someone plans to put the blade into
service as a heavy duty pry-bar.
To clean up the inside corner where the guard will meet the ricasso on the
sides of the tang, I'll take a hint from one of Kyle Royer's threads, and use a
"safed-edge" file. I set one file aside, and re-surface the edge for each new
blade.
I can then set the jig in the vise of my little Taig mini-mill, and mill the
front section of the tapered tang down to the 8 thousandths channel. It'll
come out about to where you see the Sharpie marks.
If I had me a Bridgeport, I could do all this shoulder work with an end mill in
a flash. The little mini-mill flexes just enough so it won't do the job.
I'll then put the blade in my Moran vise, and clean and sand the tang, right up
to the shoulders. That blue tape's on there so I don't faint away after sanding
into my carefully fashioned shoulder joint.
Here's the blade ready to etch. It's a finished 12 and 5/16th's inches from
shoulders to tip, 1 and 3/4's inch max width, and .230 at the ricasso, with a
nice distal taper. I've got 5 1/8 inches to the end of the threaded tang to
work with on the handle. Gonna be light and fast.
Had expected to etch this puppy today, but ran into some "Honey-do's" and out of
natural light. I'll etch first thing tomorrow, and set the blade aside for the
finish to cure. Photo for sure!
As it happens, i have a billet of S&S large enough to start forging the D-Guard
to profile. That'll be fun, and the subject of the next phase of this WIP.
John Perry's massive shoulder filing jigs onto the squarely marked shoulder,
and begin by filing the bottom corner flush. I'll start with a flat file, and when
it's close, finish with a mill file and an eighth inch chainsaw file, to radius
the tang into the ricasso. This radius, on the bottom and top of the tang,
spreads the working stress of chopping out enough to eliminate an abrupt
stress riser, and also avoids a right angle "notch failure" opportunity.
This will be a take-down, and I want the guard to fit snugly, but not have
to be pressed or knocked on and off. I also want the ricasso/ guard joint to fit
perfectly. I'll file an 8 thousandths channel down each side of the tang with
the edge of a mill file. Although this shoulder will technically be both a
stress riser and notch, the decrease in cross section is minimal, and there is
no working load sideways; unless, that is, someone plans to put the blade into
service as a heavy duty pry-bar.
To clean up the inside corner where the guard will meet the ricasso on the
sides of the tang, I'll take a hint from one of Kyle Royer's threads, and use a
"safed-edge" file. I set one file aside, and re-surface the edge for each new
blade.
I can then set the jig in the vise of my little Taig mini-mill, and mill the
front section of the tapered tang down to the 8 thousandths channel. It'll
come out about to where you see the Sharpie marks.
If I had me a Bridgeport, I could do all this shoulder work with an end mill in
a flash. The little mini-mill flexes just enough so it won't do the job.
I'll then put the blade in my Moran vise, and clean and sand the tang, right up
to the shoulders. That blue tape's on there so I don't faint away after sanding
into my carefully fashioned shoulder joint.
Here's the blade ready to etch. It's a finished 12 and 5/16th's inches from
shoulders to tip, 1 and 3/4's inch max width, and .230 at the ricasso, with a
nice distal taper. I've got 5 1/8 inches to the end of the threaded tang to
work with on the handle. Gonna be light and fast.
Had expected to etch this puppy today, but ran into some "Honey-do's" and out of
natural light. I'll etch first thing tomorrow, and set the blade aside for the
finish to cure. Photo for sure!
As it happens, i have a billet of S&S large enough to start forging the D-Guard
to profile. That'll be fun, and the subject of the next phase of this WIP.
- Joined
- May 14, 2010
- Messages
- 109
John, your WIPs are always very interesting,especially for your high quality philosophy you display
thank you
Marcello
thank you
Marcello
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Etched the blade early this morning, and it's curing while I start the D-Guard.
Etching starts with a completely clean and dry blade. I clean with Formula 409
several times, dry quickly, and hold in front of a fan until all moisture is
gone. The blade is then suspended in a tube of Ferric Chloride etchant from
Radio Shack, cut 4:1 with water for five minutes. I neutralize with Windex, and
polish off the oxides with 2500 grit paper using Windex as a lubricant.
The blade is then re-washed, dried, re-etched, and polished again.
After a third etch, the blade is neutralized, rinsed in water, and immediately
sprayed with W-D 40. I then rub the W-D 40 covered blade quickly and firmly
with my finger, which sets the oxides (in a hurry) and flush the surface, first
with more W-D 40, and then with gun oil. The oxides are setting as I wipe,
and all this must be done quickly and evenly to avoid streaks.
This is what "Old Glory" looks like now. A couple days curing with a film of
Break-Free, and the finish will be durable.
A larger version of the image can be found here:
http://www.customknifecollectorsassociation.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=14508#post14508
Etching starts with a completely clean and dry blade. I clean with Formula 409
several times, dry quickly, and hold in front of a fan until all moisture is
gone. The blade is then suspended in a tube of Ferric Chloride etchant from
Radio Shack, cut 4:1 with water for five minutes. I neutralize with Windex, and
polish off the oxides with 2500 grit paper using Windex as a lubricant.
The blade is then re-washed, dried, re-etched, and polished again.
After a third etch, the blade is neutralized, rinsed in water, and immediately
sprayed with W-D 40. I then rub the W-D 40 covered blade quickly and firmly
with my finger, which sets the oxides (in a hurry) and flush the surface, first
with more W-D 40, and then with gun oil. The oxides are setting as I wipe,
and all this must be done quickly and evenly to avoid streaks.
This is what "Old Glory" looks like now. A couple days curing with a film of
Break-Free, and the finish will be durable.
A larger version of the image can be found here:
http://www.customknifecollectorsassociation.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=14508#post14508
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
I had a 3-bar billet of "Stars and Stripes" made up, at 9/16 thick, and
about 1 3/8 wide.
To be able to forge the billet a little easier, and to be able to check the
pattern, I'll grind the edges of the billet, and mark two parallel lines 3/8th's
inch apart, centered on the billet.
I'll grind the billet to 3/8th's thick, and prepare a mild steel pattern of the
D-Guard, using my drawing.
Welding on a handle to the billet, I begin forging it to profile. I'll use the
power hammer for major squeezing, the press to keep the thickness precise, hand
hammer and anvil, and a fullering tool.
Here's the start.
Here's the finish of the first part of the forging.
about 1 3/8 wide.
To be able to forge the billet a little easier, and to be able to check the
pattern, I'll grind the edges of the billet, and mark two parallel lines 3/8th's
inch apart, centered on the billet.
I'll grind the billet to 3/8th's thick, and prepare a mild steel pattern of the
D-Guard, using my drawing.
Welding on a handle to the billet, I begin forging it to profile. I'll use the
power hammer for major squeezing, the press to keep the thickness precise, hand
hammer and anvil, and a fullering tool.
Here's the start.
Here's the finish of the first part of the forging.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
I'll cut the profiled billet off the forging handle, and also cut off the
extended tip, which will become a small 'Stars and Stripes" plaque for Kevin's
display case.
Here's the profiled billet and the pattern, which I'll use to mark out the
D-Guard for grinding to final shape.
The billet, plaque billet, and a twist piece for the collar, are then
normalized, and annealed.
The D-Guard billet is 3/8th's inch thick, but will be ground down to about .165
before shaping. Again, the pattern is in the center of the billet.
extended tip, which will become a small 'Stars and Stripes" plaque for Kevin's
display case.
Here's the profiled billet and the pattern, which I'll use to mark out the
D-Guard for grinding to final shape.
The billet, plaque billet, and a twist piece for the collar, are then
normalized, and annealed.
The D-Guard billet is 3/8th's inch thick, but will be ground down to about .165
before shaping. Again, the pattern is in the center of the billet.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
I already have a couple forms for bending D-Guards, but one is for Dogbone
handles, and the other for an ivory frame handle. I'll need to take about an
hour to make a bending form for this stag handled D-Guard.
BTW, anyone thinking of making their first D-Guard Bowie really should get hold
of Harvey Dean's video. I did!
I'll start the form by using my drawing to mark and cut out two side plates from
1/8th inch mild steel, along with some 3/4 inch strips.
After beveling the edges on the strips for welding grooves, I'll tack-weld the
longer strips to the top and bottom of one side plate with the MIG welder.
Squaring up and aligning the second plate (correct side forward, this time) I'll
begin welding the dividing strips to the side plates, tapping the soft mild
steel down into the curve as I go.
With the box structure welded up, I'll grind the weld beads smooth and the form
square, first with 50 grit, then 120, and round the edges so they won't gouge
the guard when I bend it.
handles, and the other for an ivory frame handle. I'll need to take about an
hour to make a bending form for this stag handled D-Guard.
BTW, anyone thinking of making their first D-Guard Bowie really should get hold
of Harvey Dean's video. I did!
I'll start the form by using my drawing to mark and cut out two side plates from
1/8th inch mild steel, along with some 3/4 inch strips.
After beveling the edges on the strips for welding grooves, I'll tack-weld the
longer strips to the top and bottom of one side plate with the MIG welder.
Squaring up and aligning the second plate (correct side forward, this time) I'll
begin welding the dividing strips to the side plates, tapping the soft mild
steel down into the curve as I go.
With the box structure welded up, I'll grind the weld beads smooth and the form
square, first with 50 grit, then 120, and round the edges so they won't gouge
the guard when I bend it.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
At the Guard/Ricasso end I'll drill a 1/4 inch hole, in the middle of the area
where the tang slot will be in the D-Guard. At the back end, where the threaded
tang will go into the butt-cap, I'll drill and tap a 1/4-20 hole. I don't always
use the second hole, but it can be used to draw up the back end of the D-Guard
if neccessary. You'll see later.
When I've made the D-Guard and am bending it onto the form, I'll drop a 1/4-20
bolt, that I've ground flat on the sides, into the form, and stick it out the
front hole. I'll bolt the D-Guard between the form and this little curved top
block, that I can also use to bend the thumb-rest of the guard.
Now all I need to do is grind down that billet, shape the D-Guard, sand it down
to 1000 grit, pierce it, and I'll be ready to bend it on the form. Sounds like a
nice project for the week-end, and maybe more.
where the tang slot will be in the D-Guard. At the back end, where the threaded
tang will go into the butt-cap, I'll drill and tap a 1/4-20 hole. I don't always
use the second hole, but it can be used to draw up the back end of the D-Guard
if neccessary. You'll see later.
When I've made the D-Guard and am bending it onto the form, I'll drop a 1/4-20
bolt, that I've ground flat on the sides, into the form, and stick it out the
front hole. I'll bolt the D-Guard between the form and this little curved top
block, that I can also use to bend the thumb-rest of the guard.
Now all I need to do is grind down that billet, shape the D-Guard, sand it down
to 1000 grit, pierce it, and I'll be ready to bend it on the form. Sounds like a
nice project for the week-end, and maybe more.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2007
- Messages
- 7,680
Wow, there is some really cool stuff going on in this WIP!! The D guard work is really cool!!
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Friday's the day we "Re-Tired" folks beat the crowd, and do our shopping and
running around, but took a little while this morning to finish the prep on the
D-Guard billet.
The last thing before annealing the billet was to fuller down above the ricasso
area, so I can carve a lion's paw. This is what the forged billet looks like at
3/8th's inch out of the oven.
The other pieces in the pic will become the collar, butt-cap, and plaque.
Again , the granite plate and height gage are used to mark out .170 in the
middle of the billet for grinding to rough thickness., after quickly cleaning
the edges.
Did I say what a time-saver this inexpensive granite plate and height gage are?
With the billet rough ground down close to the finished thickness, I can refine
the profile.
After marking with my pattern, and grinding as closely as I can, I will work
the symmetry exactly by drawing around the profile with a sharp pencil, and
flipping the billet to check.
The last touches are done by eye, after I can no longer see any difference in
the pencil lines.
The ricasso area is left square, so I can mark off for the tang slot, and grab
it in the mini-mill vise for slotting.
I'll carve the edge pattern after the slot is fitted to the tang.
Here's what the "Stars and Stripes" pattern will look like on the guard strap. (
Just a light etch here) The forging to profile makes only a slight difference in
the look over just squeezing to a constant width and cutting , but it only takes
a while; I can see the difference, and it'll look cooler in the end.
Over the week-end I'll be working on the guard, collar and butt cap all at once.
More pics later.
running around, but took a little while this morning to finish the prep on the
D-Guard billet.
The last thing before annealing the billet was to fuller down above the ricasso
area, so I can carve a lion's paw. This is what the forged billet looks like at
3/8th's inch out of the oven.
The other pieces in the pic will become the collar, butt-cap, and plaque.
Again , the granite plate and height gage are used to mark out .170 in the
middle of the billet for grinding to rough thickness., after quickly cleaning
the edges.
Did I say what a time-saver this inexpensive granite plate and height gage are?
With the billet rough ground down close to the finished thickness, I can refine
the profile.
After marking with my pattern, and grinding as closely as I can, I will work
the symmetry exactly by drawing around the profile with a sharp pencil, and
flipping the billet to check.
The last touches are done by eye, after I can no longer see any difference in
the pencil lines.
The ricasso area is left square, so I can mark off for the tang slot, and grab
it in the mini-mill vise for slotting.
I'll carve the edge pattern after the slot is fitted to the tang.
Here's what the "Stars and Stripes" pattern will look like on the guard strap. (
Just a light etch here) The forging to profile makes only a slight difference in
the look over just squeezing to a constant width and cutting , but it only takes
a while; I can see the difference, and it'll look cooler in the end.
Over the week-end I'll be working on the guard, collar and butt cap all at once.
More pics later.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
With the D-guard profiled and brought to initial thickness, checking it against
the blade indicated that .170 was too thick visually and would be
un-neccessarily heavy. I took the guard down to .137, and began the finishing
process by sanding the flats down to 1000 grit. Although things will get
scratched up in the slotting and shaping to come, starting from a finished flat
saves time in the long run.
Carefully marking the still parallel sided ricasso area for center, I can use
the blade to mark out for the tang fit.
Measuring and marking the tang thickness and width just behind the ricasso
shoulders, I can clamp the guard in the mini-mill vise and mill out a slot 5
thousandths less than the tang measurements.
Taking the slot down to a fit that doesn't wiggle, but can still be inserted and
removed by hand is done by eye with safed- edge files and trial fits.
The fitted D-Guard held in place with a guard press, surrounded by the tools for
a final fit.
the blade indicated that .170 was too thick visually and would be
un-neccessarily heavy. I took the guard down to .137, and began the finishing
process by sanding the flats down to 1000 grit. Although things will get
scratched up in the slotting and shaping to come, starting from a finished flat
saves time in the long run.
Carefully marking the still parallel sided ricasso area for center, I can use
the blade to mark out for the tang fit.
Measuring and marking the tang thickness and width just behind the ricasso
shoulders, I can clamp the guard in the mini-mill vise and mill out a slot 5
thousandths less than the tang measurements.
Taking the slot down to a fit that doesn't wiggle, but can still be inserted and
removed by hand is done by eye with safed- edge files and trial fits.
The fitted D-Guard held in place with a guard press, surrounded by the tools for
a final fit.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
With the guard slotted and fitted to the tang, I can shape the ricasso area.
I've already shaped the thumb tip that will be bent and carved, so I'll use one
of my guard half-patterns just to mark symmetrical curves each side of the
ricasso area.
The curves are roughed out on the grinder , using a work platen and 50 grit, and
refined by hand-filing and checking with the same "draw and flip" method used
for the rest of the guard profile. Final touches are again a matter of eye-ball
and tiny alterations.
When the symmetry and shape is satisfactory, I'll use the dial calipers to draw
lines around the edges and in from the edge on the flats, .045 from the edge, or
1/3 the thickness. Going to the grinder, I'll knock off the corners all around
the guard at a 45 degree angle. With the guard in a soft jaw vise, I'll use a
chainsaw file to round over those 45's.
With the edges rounded over, I'm going to pierce the D-Guard bow area in a
pattern that will later be accented with gold wire inlay. I've done a drawing of
the piercing I want, and will just cut the drawing out, and super glue it to the
guard, aligning it carefully.
Using, get this folks, a titanium jewelers saw and number six blades, I'll saw
out the piercings, having threaded the blade through holes drilled in each
design. The spheroidal anneal really does the job. Six designs sawed out using
only 14 blades. Clean-up is done with itty bitty needle files.
I've already shaped the thumb tip that will be bent and carved, so I'll use one
of my guard half-patterns just to mark symmetrical curves each side of the
ricasso area.
The curves are roughed out on the grinder , using a work platen and 50 grit, and
refined by hand-filing and checking with the same "draw and flip" method used
for the rest of the guard profile. Final touches are again a matter of eye-ball
and tiny alterations.
When the symmetry and shape is satisfactory, I'll use the dial calipers to draw
lines around the edges and in from the edge on the flats, .045 from the edge, or
1/3 the thickness. Going to the grinder, I'll knock off the corners all around
the guard at a 45 degree angle. With the guard in a soft jaw vise, I'll use a
chainsaw file to round over those 45's.
With the edges rounded over, I'm going to pierce the D-Guard bow area in a
pattern that will later be accented with gold wire inlay. I've done a drawing of
the piercing I want, and will just cut the drawing out, and super glue it to the
guard, aligning it carefully.
Using, get this folks, a titanium jewelers saw and number six blades, I'll saw
out the piercings, having threaded the blade through holes drilled in each
design. The spheroidal anneal really does the job. Six designs sawed out using
only 14 blades. Clean-up is done with itty bitty needle files.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Now i'll sand this puppy til my fingers fall off. The flats are still in fairly
good shape, so the edges are attacked with sandpaper wrapped around one of my
favorite tools; a brass strip with a piece of rubber gasket material super glued on.
When the edges are down to around 400 grit, I'll cut a curve on the center area
of the bow that will be the outer side on the bottom. I'll start on the grinder
wheel with a dull 50 grit, and clean up with a mill file.
This will give the exposed bow a softer look than leaving a flat.
Now continue sanding. I'm at 400 grit in this photo, and will continue until the
whole guard, except for the butt area is at 1000 grit.
The next project will involve fitting collar and stag, roughing out an outer
butt- cap, and making the finial.
With those parts fitted, I can bend the D-Guard bow.
good shape, so the edges are attacked with sandpaper wrapped around one of my
favorite tools; a brass strip with a piece of rubber gasket material super glued on.
When the edges are down to around 400 grit, I'll cut a curve on the center area
of the bow that will be the outer side on the bottom. I'll start on the grinder
wheel with a dull 50 grit, and clean up with a mill file.
This will give the exposed bow a softer look than leaving a flat.
Now continue sanding. I'm at 400 grit in this photo, and will continue until the
whole guard, except for the butt area is at 1000 grit.
The next project will involve fitting collar and stag, roughing out an outer
butt- cap, and making the finial.
With those parts fitted, I can bend the D-Guard bow.