Joseph Hargis Knives

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First of all, I would like to apologize for my poor business practices. I have reasons but I know you don't want excuses so I am not going to bother. I assure you I am working to correct all of my issues. I will try and address everyone here in one post because I don't get on here much.

northernsurvivalist - I have never been paid $185 for a knife. I asked you who you were and never got a response. You say on this thread you sent me $185 dollars for a friend from the "shooting club". You get defensive when asked who this friend is (its all here on this thread) and I wonder why? I have however been paid $150 from John D. from new york (who I believe you are and for some reason don't want your identity known). I also never asked for the $150 upfront. I asked for $50 upfront and I have emails to prove it. I also have shipped your knife and it had been delivered Aug. 1st. USPS conformation number 0311 1660 0001 2721 8902. I also have the email where you stated you didn't know if you sent $185 or $155 which it was neither it was $150. I can put the emails on here if you like.

Ben Piatt - your knife was made in a timely manner before my health issues and shipped. It was lost by the post office. You initiated a chargeback through your credit card company. I told the Mod you received a refund because the money was taken from my paypal(plus a fee from your company). I have forwarded you and the Moderator the email from PayPal. I will post it on here if I need to. I don't know how long it takes for your company to charge it back but it has been done on my end.

tigertaylor - your knife will be on it's way in the next few days. It is done and the sheath halfway done. I am waiting on a little break in the record breaking oklahoma heat to go back down to the shop, but I will get it to you and I promise you will like it.

thehobiecat - wanted to order and exact copy of another guys knife. I told him I would make a "pretty darn close knife". I took a $40 deposit to cover cost of supplies. It did take me a few weeks to get the knife done during which he said he was only 50/50 on still getting it. I already had it mostly done. Then he said he would get a mini-muk. I offered to make him one but then he said he would just wait till the next batch and wanted his money back. He was very flighty on what he wanted. I went ahead and finished the knife and email him pics. When it wasn't exactly like the other he backed out of the deal.

MKP - (who wasn't on the list or involved in this thread but I am not trying to hide anything so lets go ahead and cover this one too) I have one of your knives ready and the other is just waiting on the sheath which will be done as soon as I get a small break in the heat. He paid upfront but of his own doing. he was only asked for a deposit.

Again I am sorry for the poor business. Some of you I havent got back with personally just because your emails are not quite as tame as your post on here and I haven't had the energy or time to deal. MKP, Ben Piatt, and tigertaylor are all great guys and I am sorry for having bad dealing with them on my end. I don't blame them for how mad they have been. thehobiecat I wouldn't recommend people doing customs for. And northernsurvivalist, I am not sure why you are hiding who you really are. I figure you are probably just wary of internet security with personal information. I can understand that, but your statements on this thread are not adding up to what really happened.
As for asking for full price upfront, I have only done this twice. I did it with Ben and tigertaylor because I needed cash to send my daughter to a camp. The rest that paid upfront were only asked for a deposit but chose instead to pay upfront.
Regarding the authorities, The were contacted by John D.(I believe northersurvivalist) and a couple others to press charges. They are nice to help in these situations but like I'm sure you were told, this is a civil issue not a criminal issue. File a civil claim if you have been wronged. threatening me with "pressing charges" just doesn't motivate me to help anyone. I am motivated solely by my want to make things right with people be it late or not.
 
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Hello fellas. I sent Joe 185$ for a knife over 8 weeks ago. I hadn't heard anything for a long time. Then he sent me a message about his health and diabetes. He said he would get it done and shipped. I haven't heard back now for over 3 weeks. I have also sent repeated e-mails. I sent a money order as I dont have paypal. Looks pretty discouraging .

Keep me posted fellas.


Northernsurvivalist - Forgive me but I'm not sure who this is. Sometimes if you order by email it can be hard to keep user names with actual names. If you would like to tell me your real name I would be happy to update you.

No response from Northernsurvivalist because he is not telling the truth.

Just checked my e-mail. I found a response from you Joe. My apology.I will wait for the knife- I guess it wil be on its way soon. Seems you are already getting some shipped out.

Yes, your email is the same as John D's just like I thought
I talked to another one of Joes customers who doesn't have a BF thread name. He told me he had to call the Sheriffs department to get them involved.

I can't believe it has come to this. The Sheriff told him they contacted Mr.Hargis and were assured all knives were being finished and shipped on this Monday. Sound familiar ??? If the knives weren't in hand by Wednesday of next week , charges would be filled by the Sheriffs office.

I don't know why he couldn't have kept his word to all of us ?
I don't know why he didn't just refund us all ?

I can't imagine a skilled craftsman like Joe Hargis getting much work after all this is over with. I still wait with baited breath for my knife.

I hope all you other fellas here get yours too, without any more incidents.

Good Luck to All....



One of the other fellas from upstate NY that ordered a knife- said he received an email from joe hargis today, stating that he had sent the knife .

Have any others had any emails of the sort ?

Still waiting to hear from him......

What member? It's only going to help knowing who these people are.

He's not a member of BF !!!

I know him from the shooting club !

Sorry reddevil thats al I can tell you. He is not a member of BF for a reason. However, he already owned a Hargis knife, and he was waiting for his second. Now he seems to have a tracking number with USPS. Knife was shipped late today .
Ben or Tiger have you heard anything ? or hobiecat ?


I am not here to make things worse but this guy is posing as two people that I owe knives to when in fact it is only one. These are not two different people the northersurvivalist and this "friend from the shooting club" of his. These are the same person John D. from New York. I already sent his knife, it has been delivered. I challenge him to any proof of him sending $185 to me. He sent $150 when only $50 was asked (i can forward emails to prove). I also sold him a knife for $85 that was supposed to sell for $100 but he screwed up and thought it was $85 (emails to prove that too) but I went ahead and took $85. He also took over 2 1/2 weeks to pay for it while I could have already sold it for $100. He also can't remember if he (john) sent me $185 or $155 (emails to prove this also). I'm sure he didn't put any of these details out there.
 
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As for my website being shut down, I didn't do this to "hide". It happened because if you don't have the money to pay the bill, they shut it down.
 
I would like to let everyone know that Joe has forwarded me pictures of my knife and incomplete sheath. He has responded to my private message and says to have it shipped out in the next few days. I will post on here when the knife arrives or in the event that no knife arrives. I have asked Joe to please keep me updated.
 
Here is John aka northernsurvivalist's knife he received. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics.
IMG_0824.jpg


And tigertaylors' I am trying to finish up.
IMG_0829.jpg
 
Northernsurvivalist - I noticed you were browsing this thread after I posted about you pretending to be two different people. You didn't leave any comments. I just don't want you exagerating this to look like I have had issues with more people than I actually have. And for more money than I have. And making it look like I asked for the full price upfront when I only asked for a deposit.
 
Thank you Joe for coming through and providing your side of the story on all this. It's easy for already excitable people to get even more excitable, and by proxy end up whipping others into frothy-mouthed frenzy. I have explained the importance of being patient in situations like this. Some of the behavior displayed by some in this thread has been less than stellar or understanding. This will undoubtedly also cast a reflection on you as a customer. Just like you won't deal with some knifemakers in the future, expect some reciprocation where knifemakers won't want to deal with you. It truly is a 2 way street.
 
Rev, I disagree. We all asked Joe for communication, had he communicated then yes you have a valid point. You joined this party late and when you did he had been jerking us around for weeks so our patience was basically non existent. He did not keep us updated and would not respond to any of us. So, when we as customers put our good faith in a knifemaker to follow through and send us what we have paid for then this is what happens. I was more than willing to wait it out with Joe Hargis as stated multiple times in this thread but when the emails and pm's went silent on his end, well you see what happens. We have been MORE than patient with him after numerous excuses and no product.

It sounds as if you are getting onto us because we lost faith in him early on but that's not the case. He caused this situation for 100% on his own. I paid the man up front because he was in need of the money right then and there so I checked his feedback and made the decision to make the payment. I accept responsibility for that but not what followed in the next 8 weeks. I think he knows what he did was wrong and is trying to make it right but that doesn't excuse the fact of what Joe Hargis did to warrant all of this negative attention. I can't see any knifemaker who followed this thread think that what we posted was in the wrong.
 
Thank you Joe for coming through and providing your side of the story on all this. It's easy for already excitable people to get even more excitable, and by proxy end up whipping others into frothy-mouthed frenzy. I have explained the importance of being patient in situations like this. Some of the behavior displayed by some in this thread has been less than stellar or understanding. This will undoubtedly also cast a reflection on you as a customer. Just like you won't deal with some knifemakers in the future, expect some reciprocation where knifemakers won't want to deal with you. It truly is a 2 way street.
I have been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now and I am blown away that you insist on laying any amount of blame on the customers. They were the ones that were wronged. Maybe there is more to the story than we can see but I can't understand why you keep chastising them for wanting the contract fulfilled.
 
All custom knives take time to make. I have waited as long as 18+ months for some of them. It's the nature of the game. It's not like these guys have shelves full of ready made knives they can just pack and ship. Add to that unforseen problems, and it takes even longer. He said he had no internet service, his site was taken down for his inability to pay a bill.

Unfortunately for northernsurvivalist he helped make a bad situation worse by hyping everyone up, and eventually lying. Regardless of your opinion on my entering this mess early or late, I came in and did what I could. One other thing, do not assume or pretend to know what my motivation is for anything. You have a photo of your knife, it will be shipped as soon as it is complete. Bpiatt got his money back, I have the paypal email Joe forwarded me stating paypal infact took the money out of his account.

I have been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now and I am blown away that you insist on laying any amount of blame on the customers. They were the ones that were wronged. Maybe there is more to the story than we can see but I can't understand why you keep chastising them for wanting the contract fulfilled.

You have nothing to do with this at all. If you have issue with my handling of this situation, take it to tech support. There is always 2 sides to every story, I was trying to piece together exactly what happened. Could you have done a better job, while remaining completely objective? There is more to the story, it's very easy to jump to comclusions when we don't have important details. All I ever asked for was patience so I could work some things out, if you call that being chastized, then you folks have really thin skin.
 
I do take blame for my shortcomings dealing with people on this forum. I didn't however want my reputation being made worse by a someone making completely false statements that they had made deals with me and others omitting their fault in where the deal went bad. I think this is what RevDev was talking about. I don't think he was trying to chastise those of you who legitimately had complaints.
 
I find it comical that this Hargis cat is now trying to assume that he somehow now has the high road. My advice would be just take your lumps and move on. Your pedestal has crumbled. Focus on rebuilding it.
 
The only thing I asked for was patience while I got the story straight. There were 5-6 people coming out of the woodwork with stories of being wronged. I tried to organize and gather facts in an objective way, and proceed to be civil in a situation that I came into while being uninformed of details myself. Bu as I said, when a mod tries to help he gets shit on, when he stays away, yep he gets shit on. All in a days work. ;)
 
Joe, I still have your back. When I broke my back I refused to answer my phone or email for 2 full months. It seems to me like the spastic postings of these "wronged" customers may be the result of never having ordered a custom hand made item from a one man shop before?

I have several things on order here and on other forums. 3 knives, 4 sheaths and a custom fire steel. Some of those, months have passed. I think it is one of the makers here who has on his website: if you email and call me constantly to ask for updates on your knives, I am happy to answer, just know that it delays me actually doing the work that much longer.

I applaud Rev for how he has handled this (maturely and with a little experience based wisdom) and am glad you are back in your shop again. I myself will have no hesitation ordering a custom knife from you. When you get time, I'm interested in a mid-sized muk.

Hal
 
Gastonknife - How is trying to straighten things out "taking the high road"? I have already apologized and said "I do take blame for my shortcomings dealing with people on this forum". I have said that there are legitimate complaints on here. I have said that most of them were good guys to deal with on their end. I just didn't want someone claiming to have false deals with me on this thread making things worse. The "comical" thing is the people chiming in that have nothing to do with it. You have no idea the whole situation by reading it on this thread. But, for some it's fun to be a part of the drama.

The true people that have complaints on here are the ones who bought already made knives that I took a while to ship. (which have all been shipped and received). Those of you that bought custom, I tried to give you a timeline, but I never guarantee a completion date. I should have communicated more, but to be honest with you, at the time with my issues, making knives was not my biggest priority. Some of you emailed me several times a day and were nice but others weren't. At the time I just couldn't deal with business.
Sometimes life gets in the way of good intentions. That what I have always had was good intentions. I have been selling knives on here since around '06 or '07. I sold them under "joe9knives" and had good dealing with everyone.Then I changed to "Hargis Knives" (because it sounded more professional) and had nothing but good dealing with people before and after Itrader. I then let dad takeover "hargis knives" a couple years ago on BF because I got too busy to make knives and he started making them again. When I got back into making knives, I let him keep the Hargis Knives name on BF and I started "Joe Hargis Knives" even though it made me look as though I was just starting out new. Have had alot of good interactions and unfortunately a few bad but you will have to excuse me for pointing out the ones who were lying and making more drama and making things worse. Even if you think this is "taking the high road".
 
Thanks halm! I appreciate the kind words. I unfortunately am only in the shop a little at a time to get the orders done that a couple here on the forums are waiting on. I don't know if I will make knives again anytime soon.
 
Seriously Joe?

I may have limited experience/exposure here on BF, but I'm sorry, I don't believe you're an honest person. I just don't.

Email to Joe:

(and by the way he "retracted" his offer to apply the deposit to any of his other knives)




Joe - Since you call yourself a "full-time knifemaker" it would be a good idea to actually communicate with your customers. It's Business-101... not rocket science. It's unfortunate how "on the spot" you are when someone has questions about ordering a knife (I got responses back within minutes) but then once you get someone's deposit, you absolutely disappear. For your education, I've got two knife orders in progress right now and I couldn't be happier with the communication process. Those guys are amazing to work with and I'll absolutely buy from them again. You may put out a nice product, but you have no clue how to handle the business end of things. That's a fact.

I would have been fine with any timeline you gave me. 8-10 weeks, whatever. The fact is that you set up your own timelines to finish the knife and on two separate occasions you made excuses as to why the knife wasn't completed. Things happen, I completely understand. However, YOU set up the timeline expectations, NOT ME. Now the problem here really occurs when you don't communicate back. I've ordered 100's of custom things from perfect strangers and NEVER, not once, had such lousy customer service. Never.

If there was ANY question about my desire for the knife (your 50/50 reference).... WHY DIDN'T YOU ASK!??!?!??!?!?!? Again you're selective memory is the problem here as you clearly replied: "It makes me no difference if you want something else...... I do have a black mini muk with yellow liners or If you want something else just let me know".

DO YOU NOT REMEMBER WRITING THIS??? (Would you like me to forward the email??)

The fact is you were making excuses on the knife and I got tired of hearing it. Plain and simple. I replied saying "I'll wait until your next batch of mini-muks". You made the offer to go with another knife... NOT ME. I accepted that offer so if there was any issue, you should have emailed me. But again, you didn't, because you're terrible at this part of the business.

I'll be awaiting your response.... of course "when YOU have time"

Nick
 
Being mislead and manipulated likely gives rise to the frustration and anger, not the money.
roland
 
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