Just finished a spine whack test on my Buck Select.

[JNewell]

Just make sure you post the video on YouTube.

So, should we drive our cars into walls in order to test te seatbelt?

 

[cncpro11]

You failed to address the point at all. Simple or complex, safety features are there in case of accidents. They don't make fixed blade cars, but they do provide public transportation. You don't have to wear your seat belt and you're less likely to be involved in a motor vehicle accident on that. But it's less convenient than just jumping in your car. Kind of like how throwing a folder in your pocket is more convenient than carrying a fixed blade, if I can stretch a 'tired' analogy.

Alright, could you please describe an accident where your knife beats itself about the spine against a hard object?

You say I missed your point, which is safety in case of accident and proper control. people are injured or killed every day while properly controlling their cars by circumstances beyond their control. If I have a knife in my hand and get cut while using it, I can guarantee you it is because I was doing something ignorant and stupid.

ETA: Perhaps you are on to something with your public transit not having seat belts thing. kind of like knives without locks being safer?
I suppose I was premature in saying the car analogy was tired...

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Alright, could you please describe an accident where your knife beats itself about the spine against a hard object?

You say I missed your point, which is safety in case of accident and proper control. people are injured or killed every day while properly controlling their cars by circumstances beyond their control. If I have a knife in my hand and get cut while using it, I can guarantee you it is because I was doing something ignorant and stupid.

It can be very easy to strike the spine of a knife accidentally when cutting in enclosed quarters. There's also the risk of someone dropping something to strike the knife you're holding. I've worked as an EMT and seen both scenarios play out, luckily no injuries from it. I've also had a patient jerk suddenly against the spine of my knife when cutting off their seatbelt. As for who's at fault with the accident, does it matter? Seatbelts don't stop protecting you if the accident is caused by your stupidity, nor should they. There are those of us who accept that they are less than perfect and look for advantages to counter that. A lock is one such device. As I said previously, I have no desire to rely on a lock and I try hard to avoid doing stupid things with knives, but if the choice is between stupidity + stitches and stupidity alone I know which one I'll pick.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

So, should we drive our cars into walls in order to test te seatbelt?

Strawman. As I've said, I don't really spine-whack my knives because of the potential for damage. But there isn't an independent body testing knives to demonstrate safety and hold them to a certain standard, so I'm generally appreciative of the people that risk their property to perform such tests. Depending on their attitude I may think the person testing is a bit...silly, but I appreciate having the information.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

ETA: Perhaps you are on to something with your public transit not having seat belts thing. kind of like knives without locks being safer?
I suppose I was premature in saying the car analogy was tired...

Exactly! Fixed blades have no lock at all and I think they're significantly safer, though less convenient.

 

[timberweasel]

Just out of curiosity I did a sphine whack test on my Buck select. It's a $25 knife with a liner lock and has been a good knife for basic stuff. I'm not sure what I learned from the test other than the fact that the lock failed after a light hit with the blade upside down. There was no blade play after performing this test more than a few times, and afterwards I continued to wittle a large branch along with batoning a a smaller limb. So I ask you, what did I learn from hitting a knife upside down?

I'd say you've learned that you can elicit eleven pages (and counting) of responses to a tongue-in-cheek thread about the topic...

 

[cards94]

I have that Buck knife, it's a great knife for the money. At to stabbing people backwards while I hang from a swing set on the 3rd Tuesday of a month, I don't know. Haven't tried it, but it works great for an EDC.

are you sure you are talking about the same knife. buck vantage select?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

So say the knife was good to begin with but some genius decides to spine whack it like 6 times. The lock face gets mushroomed and the locking surface on the tang gets damaged. Now you know the knife holds up but you damaged it. Good job.. Treat a folding knife like it has no lock and you'll be fine. How did people before locks ever get along? Oh that's right, common sense and a sense of awareness with what they were doing.

 

[Thomas Linton]

So say the knife was good to begin with but some genius decides to spine whack it like 6 times. The lock face gets mushroomed and the locking surface on the tang gets damaged. Now you know the knife holds up but you damaged it. Good job.. Treat a folding knife like it has no lock and you'll be fine. How did people before locks ever get along? Oh that's right, common sense and a sense of awareness with what they were doing.

Such tests might provide more data on product performance. Usually, the results have limited utility, if any, because we don't have measurable events taking place. "Moderate" "Hard" "Not very hard" ?????

Some people like to test stuff. Not me. However, sarcastic comments, beyond being inappropriate in this forum, do not advance adult discussion.

How did people get along before antibiotics, seat belts, chemo, and collapse zones in cars? The prudent had fewer bad results, but that does not make safety devices useless, does it?

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

So say the knife was good to begin with but some genius decides to spine whack it like 6 times. The lock face gets mushroomed and the locking surface on the tang gets damaged. ... common sense and a sense of awareness with what they were doing.

Here we go again... Commons sense is to accept that $#!t happens and hit on the spine of your knife can happen too, out of your control, the thingy that all of you "common sense" people missing...
Another important point that is conveniently modified from the original statement is "whacking"... No genius will "whack" the knife in such "test", it only takes a tap, even on the palm of your hand or as I did it on the back of a padded chair, watch the video in the beginning of the thread please and tell me with straight face that I'm abusing the knife...
To state that you'll whack your knife few times and it'll mushroom the lock surface is simply unrealistic and... I will save you my definition, even the cheapest Chinese knockoffs for $4 from ebay will not do this... I still would like to enjoy more nonsense opinions, I cannot believe someone will go to such extend to elaborate how tap on the back of a liner lock will mushroom the contact surfaces... Sure, right...

 

[Surfingringo]

Somehow, after 11 pages of opinions, we have all (in my opinion) completely missed the real question. We are all arguing whether or not the exact equivalent of a "spine whack" can or will occur in real life use. The real question is does a spine whack provide any useful data about the integrity of a folding knife lock. I find it an interesting and relevant question. I'm not sure what the answer is, and until I have THAT answer, it would be silly to designate the spine whack test as irrelevant.

Let me go back to the example I used earlier in the thread. A real world example. Let's say I have my arm (and knife) elbow deep in a fish belly. I want to pop the tip through a bone or spine so I give a little thrust with the tip. And let's assume that through bad luck, or user error, or just plain stupidity (as someone pointed out, it really doesn't matter) the tip of my knife twists or lands wrong and there is an abrupt pressure that wants to push the knife into the closed position. It is not technically an impact like a spine whack, but it is a sudden pressure pushing the blade the wrong way. Now luckily for me, my knife has a locking mechanism that prevents said force from acting on the blade. This is the intended purpose of the lock. To protect me when I make a mistake. If the lock fails in that moment then I will likely cut myself. Ok, this isn't something that happens often, and yes, if I'm careful enough I would hope it would never happen, but neither is it impossible or even implausible. Surely we can all agree on this so far.

So now that we've put some of the "a brick fell out of the sky and landed directly on the spine of my blade" ideas to rest, let's look at the real question. Assuming that in that real life moment my lock fails and I cut two of my fingers off, there is only one question that begs to be answered.

Would a spine whack test have provided me with any valid information about my lock's propensity for failure under abrupt force or pressure? And I do not know the answer to this question. So I won't say that the spine whack test is valid, but the question certainly is.

p.s. Actually, there is one more extremely valid question. Is there a way of performing a spine whack test without compromising the integrity of what would otherwise have been a perfectly functional lock had I not beaten it against a table until I broke it?

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

Such tests might provide more data on product performance. Usually, the results have limited utility, if any, because we don't have measurable events taking place. "Moderate" "Hard" "Not very hard" ?????
Some people like to test stuff. Not me. However, sarcastic comments, beyond being inappropriate in this forum, do not advance adult discussion....

And this is right on the money, thank you!
If one can tell exactly how much force it takes to damage the locking surface of a particular knife, made out of particular steel, we would know exactly what to call "whacking" or "taping" and if such test harms or abuses the knife.
To call it nonsense just because one did not have such experience or likes to follow what he understand to be "common sense" is clearly subjective, let's argue with facts, not with personal believes...
Reading all those jokes about whacking spines and so on is definitely entertaining bit it gets old at some point and it berries the subject of the thread... Of course I could be wrong...

 

[BladeScout]

It can be very easy to strike the spine of a knife accidentally when cutting in enclosed quarters. There's also the risk of someone dropping something to strike the knife you're holding. I've worked as an EMT and seen both scenarios play out, luckily no injuries from it. I've also had a patient jerk suddenly against the spine of my knife when cutting off their seatbelt. As for who's at fault with the accident, does it matter? Seatbelts don't stop protecting you if the accident is caused by your stupidity, nor should they. There are those of us who accept that they are less than perfect and look for advantages to counter that. A lock is one such device. As I said previously, I have no desire to rely on a lock and I try hard to avoid doing stupid things with knives, but if the choice is between stupidity + stitches and stupidity alone I know which one I'll pick.

If you'll permit me saying so; again we are down to the right tool being used.....or in this case the wrong one.
I dont think very many people would appreciate somebody reaching inside the confines of a crashed car with a knife.
I know I wouldnt.
We could be talking about a car not being on fire and with just a calm driver inside needing to be freed, but it might also be a vehicle on fire and with several persons inside. One or more might be conscious and flailing about in a panic - especially with the danger of gas everywhere.
You DONT want a knife near these people.
Any EMT worth his salt would of course prepare for the worst case scenario (hoping that it never played out, but never say never).
The best tool would be a cutter like the ones below - appropiately called 'Safety cutters' and freely available in most well stocked shops or from the web for next to nothing. A worthwhile investment.
They are cheap and do one heck of a job. Ive used the three cutters several times and they work. Seat belt cutters, paracord cutting, cloth cutters etc - they work.
Plenty of firefighters, police officers, EMTs and civilians use these to free others or themselves in exactly the scenario described above.

A seat belt cutter would have the added bonus, that you would avoid the stress of thinking about 'spine whacking' your knife in the line of duty and having it close on your fingers for example inside a vehicle.

Problem solved.

Seven Ps again.

Exactly! Fixed blades have no lock at all and I think they're significantly safer, though less convenient.

No so. See above. The cutter is fixed and its VERY convenient. In facts its optimal for the job at hand (of cutting seat belts).

 

[csisland]

If you'll permit me saying so; again we are down to the right tool being used.....or in this case the wrong one.
I dont think very many people would appreciate somebody reaching inside the confines of a crashed car with a knife.
I know I wouldnt.
We could be talking about a car not being on fire and with just a calm driver inside needing to be freed, but it might also be a vehicle on fire and with several persons inside. One or more might be conscious and flailing about in a panic - especially with the danger of gas everywhere.
You DONT want a knife near these people.
Any EMT worth his salt would of course prepare for the worst case scenario (hoping that it never played out, but never say never).
The best tool would be a cutter like the ones below - appropiately called 'Safety cutters' and freely available in most well stocked shops or from the web for NeXT to nothing. A worthwhile investment.
They are cheap and do one heck of a job. Ive used the three cutters several times and they work. Seat belt cutters, paracord cutting, cloth cutters etc - they work.

A seat belt cutter would have the added ou would avoid the stress of thinking about 'spine whacking' your knife in the line of duty and having it close on your fingers.

Problem solved.

Seven Ps again.




No so. See above. The cutter is fixed and its VERY convenient. In facts its optimal for the job at hand (of cutting seat belts).

Rarely see those seat belt cutters used in NYC. Rescue companies and Trucks are there before an ambulance most of the time and it's trauma scissors to cut seatbelts that are used more than the seatbelt cutter.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

Such tests might provide more data on product performance. Usually, the results have limited utility, if any, because we don't have measurable events taking place. "Moderate" "Hard" "Not very hard" ?????

Some people like to test stuff. Not me. However, sarcastic comments, beyond being inappropriate in this forum, do not advance adult discussion.

How did people get along before antibiotics, seat belts, chemo, and collapse zones in cars? The prudent had fewer bad results, but that does not make safety devices useless, does it?

Great post.

The problem with almost every "spine whack test" that I have seen is that they are more on the line of, "Lets hit the spine of this knife with a rock, or a big stick, and see if it folds up and how many tries it takes to get it to fail." The results of that kind of test are not valid and it tell us nothing. Now, take that same knife into an environment where the amount of pressure can be measured and administer the testing scientifically and THOSE results have meaning. We can learn which locks hold up to what amount of force under what conditions. But just whacking away in the field as we see in almost every Youtube vid out there? Mostly useless, IMHO.

I would love to see Blade mag or someone impartial set up a controlled test of a variety of knife locks. I would find that kind of information valuable and very interesting.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Great post.

The problem with almost every "spine whack test" that I have seen is that they are more on the line of, "Lets hit the spine of this knife with a rock, or a big stick, and see if it folds up and how many tries it takes to get it to fail." The results of that kind of test are not valid and it tell us nothing. Now, take that same knife into an environment where the amount of pressure can be measured and administer the testing scientifically and THOSE results have meaning. We can learn which locks hold up to what amount of force under what conditions. But just whacking away in the field as we see in almost every Youtube vid out there? Mostly useless, IMHO.

I would love to see Blade mag or someone impartial set up a controlled test of a variety of knife locks. I would find that kind of information valuable and very interesting.

I fear that Blade Magazine, where "all the children are above average" (or "superior"), would be an unlikely venue for objective anything.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

... we have all (in my opinion) completely missed the real question. We are all arguing whether or not the exact equivalent of a "spine whack" can or will occur in real life use. The real question is does a spine whack provide any useful data about the integrity of a folding knife lock. I find it an interesting and relevant question. I'm not sure what the answer is, and until I have THAT answer, it would be silly to designate the spine whack test as irrelevant. ....
p.s. Actually, there is one more extremely valid question. Is there a way of performing a spine whack test without compromising the integrity of what would otherwise have been a perfectly functional lock had I not beaten it against a table until I broke it?

My example from real life is: lot's of times I had to get under the operating table and reach to cut things... with all the equipment around, there are tons of "things" I have to move around with one hand only and it was much more convenient for me to push it on a side with the back of the scissors (or the blade), this gives you a small tap, whack if you want, enough to be compared to the tap I was using to test the three knives I mentioned... This is common scenario for people that go trough bushes, tight crawl spaces, attics and so on, there is nothing unusual to push or slightly tap out of your way an object you don't want to actually touch with your hand or it's only few inches away from your hand and the knife blade is right where you want it to push it out of your way...
Shooting malfunctions is another occasion I can mention: there are numerous times when I had to pray out of the chamber stuck spent shell, I use my pocket knife for it because I don't carry tools with me on the range... I broke the tip of my Heiho taking a stuck shell out, when the knife blade slips, it hits the other side of the receiver with lot more force that I'm using for the improvised "test"... If it didn't have LAWKS engaged it could close and I could cut myself, this is not a uncommon example, lots of people that go to the range use their knifes for such tasks, how big of a probability is for a weak lock to close the blade on your fingers ?

On your other question: Well... I have being playing with guns and knifes for the last 30+ years probably if not longer... Even thinking that you will damage the mechanism of a liner lock by simply tapping it on the back sounds very improbable to me, based on my experience with such things, I disagree with those popular videos where they destroy popular models just to see how long they will hold cutting steel cables, aluminum, batoning them over boards and hitting them with rubber hammers, this is abuse and I agree, the chance for this is very low but taping your knife's spine ? IMHO: It's harmless to any knife, it should be harmless for well build model from reputable knife maker or company...

 

[Insipid Moniker]

If you'll permit me saying so; again we are down to the right tool being used.....or in this case the wrong one.
I dont think very many people would appreciate somebody reaching inside the confines of a crashed car with a knife.
I know I wouldnt.
We could be talking about a car not being on fire and with just a calm driver inside needing to be freed, but it might also be a vehicle on fire and with several persons inside. One or more might be conscious and flailing about in a panic - especially with the danger of gas everywhere.
You DONT want a knife near these people.
Any EMT worth his salt would of course prepare for the worst case scenario (hoping that it never played out, but never say never).
The best tool would be a cutter like the ones below - appropiately called 'Safety cutters' and freely available in most well stocked shops or from the web for next to nothing. A worthwhile investment.
They are cheap and do one heck of a job. Ive used the three cutters several times and they work. Seat belt cutters, paracord cutting, cloth cutters etc - they work.
Plenty of firefighters, police officers, EMTs and civilians use these to free others or themselves in exactly the scenario described above.

A seat belt cutter would have the added bonus, that you would avoid the stress of thinking about 'spine whacking' your knife in the line of duty and having it close on your fingers for example inside a vehicle.

Problem solved.

Seven Ps again.




No so. See above. The cutter is fixed and its VERY convenient. In facts its optimal for the job at hand (of cutting seat belts).

I mostly agree, the incident in question was me using a poor tool for the job because it was what I had available at the time. However, as another poster pointed out, it means that I started carrying trauma shears even when off duty, not a strap cutter.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

As a quick aside, I'm often a bit confused by the 'proper tool for the job' argument. A folding pocket knife is rarely truly the proper tool for almost any job. Opening mail? Letter opener. Breaking down boxes? Box cutter. Cutting thread? Scissors. And that's not even getting into the extensive list of knives designed for specific tasks like woodcarving, food prep, skinning, etc. I don't carry a folding knife because it's always, or even often, the best tool for the job, but because it's versatile enough to do many jobs.

 

[cards94]

As a quick aside, I'm often a bit confused by the 'proper tool for the job' argument. A folding pocket knife is rarely truly the proper tool for almost any job. Opening mail? Letter opener. Breaking down boxes? Box cutter. Cutting thread? Scissors. And that's not even getting into the extensive list of knives designed for specific tasks like woodcarving, food prep, skinning, etc. I don't carry a folding knife because it's always, or even often, the best tool for the job, but because it's versatile enough to do many jobs.

all i know is i worked as a stock person in a supermarket for 3 years and always carried a box cutter. never once did i need a knife over a box cutter for that job.