just picked up a buck vantage paperstone- very disappointed

[Knife Crazied]

I feel your in the wrong to take the knife back after you've "worked on it". If you will just ship it to Buck they will fix it OR send you a new one. Send it back!!!! Don't return it use the warranty for what it was mint for!

 

[Flatlander1963]

So people are forbidden from making comparisons between products at similar price points because the place of manufacture is different?

Complete and utter garbage.

So you feel the only difference is location of manufacture? Hummmhhh. That is complete and utter foolishness.

 

[shecky]

What!!!!!!!! Shecky you can't actually be suggesting that a Vantage Select doesn't rate for a $20 knife?? A $20 knife built in America I might add! You don't even have one do you? If you did you'd know better.

I didn't suggest that. mr dylan and red1965 did.

Note your comment in bold and red. Those knives sell for a price that is a) based on a exchange rate fixed by the Chinese Government designed to steel American jobs, 2) Chinese factory workers are paid peasant wages, what is it now about a $1 per day 3) No rules, no environmental regulations. You bet your ass you’re getting a slightly better knife from China for your $20...but only slightly.

But that's not even the point; the OP was suggesting the Vantage Select needs to be as good as $100 Kershaw or $100 Spyderco.

No. The OP was suggesting the $20 Buck needs to be as good as Buck's reputation. And I suggest a $20 knife needs to be as good as any $20 knife can be. I make no allowances for where the knife comes from. If a knife cannot be made for $20 in Idaho as well as one in Asia, then that reality needs to be faced.

If a person buys a knife from a clam pack for $20 he generally has three expectations a) will it cut b) is it inexpensive 3) is it durable. The Vantage Select meets those requirements without an issue. If your expectations exceed those you should upgrade your knife purchase experience to a $50-$100 knife where the maker has put in the extra time and material costs to provide you with what you want.

Ok, but that's a pretty low bar you're setting for a company like Buck. Buck didn't make it's reputation by telling it's customers, "What are you complaining about? It cuts, doesn't it?".

 

[silenthunterstudios]

You're here, you're a knife nut. Go for the Avid or Pro models with either 12c27 or S30V steels. I had a 420HC regular model, and an S30V model. The S30V Vantage was produced much better.

 

[2TONYB]

I've had my vantage avid for a few months now. It's a regular in my edc rotation. Mine came sharp, still is. Blade alignment was good. Fit and finish were great. It is very comfortable to carry. I have no complaints. A couple of my coworkers purchased Avids after checking mine out. I understand that having to use a warranty stinks, but that is what it is offered for.

 

[2TONYB]

You're here, you're a knife nut. Go for the Avid or Pro models with either 12c27 or S30V steels. I had a 420HC regular model, and an S30V model. The S30V Vantage was produced much better.

The Avid is actually 13c27....I just happen to be holding mine in my hand.

 

[Seals]

My $25 Buck 486 is an unbelievable knife for the price. I love that Buck is putting out good quality USA made knives at these price points.

Yes,It's worth a few Bucks to me to help keep an American company alive.:thumbup:

 

[jekostas]

So you feel the only difference is location of manufacture? Hummmhhh. That is complete and utter foolishness.

What else am I supposed to compare on then? The fact that it is or isn't made in the US?

Sorry, I don't care. I'm Canadian - unless I'm buying Grohmann, I'm buying foreign either way.

Warranty service?

I don't have experience with a warranty with a SanRenMu knife - and they do provide a warranty (one year on some models, three months on others). I do have experience with Buck, and as I suggested that the OP do, let them fix it for you. They'll make it right.

Initial Quality?

I've had problems with a Buck knife, specifically an offset handle retention with a large Vantage Avid.

I've never had problems with a SanRenMu knife. I will say that in my experience, the fit and finish for the price on the SRM knives has been better than Buck knives, unless I spend significantly more on the Buck knife.

I compare on the price - specifically quality for price, the idea of value.

SanRenMu provide terrific quality for the price. This is what I consider value in this case.

So do many other people.

What you consider value is entirely your opinion. The fact that you prefer US-made goods is great, but it's your opinion, not law.

 

[Flatlander1963]

What else am I supposed to compare on then? The fact that it is or isn't made in the US?

Sorry, I don't care. I'm Canadian - unless I'm buying Grohmann, I'm buying foreign either way.

Warranty service?

I don't have experience with a warranty with a SanRenMu knife - and they do provide a warranty (one year on some models, three months on others). I do have experience with Buck, and as I suggested that the OP do, let them fix it for you. They'll make it right.

Initial Quality?

I've had problems with a Buck knife, specifically an offset handle retention with a large Vantage Avid.

I've never had problems with a SanRenMu knife. I will say that in my experience, the fit and finish for the price on the SRM knives has been better than Buck knives, unless I spend significantly more on the Buck knife.

I compare on the price - specifically quality for price, the idea of value.

SanRenMu provide terrific quality for the price. This is what I consider value in this case.

So do many other people.

What you consider value is entirely your opinion. The fact that you prefer US-made goods is great, but it's your opinion, not law.

I'm not hung up on U.S. made necessarily. I'd say the comparision is fair if the knife in question was from a G8 country.

Thanks for taking it down a notch. But the Chinese knives that are competative in price are taking advantage of a very unlevel playing field. That's probably enough said with regard to my opinions on international trade issues.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

The Avid is actually 13c27....I just happen to be holding mine in my hand.

Thanks . :thumbup:

 

[Flatlander1963]

I didn't suggest that. mr dylan and red1965 did.

No. The OP was suggesting the $20 Buck needs to be as good as Buck's reputation. And I suggest a $20 knife needs to be as good as any $20 knife can be. I make no allowances for where the knife comes from. If a knife cannot be made for $20 in Idaho as well as one in Asia, then that reality needs to be faced.

OK shecky whatever... but lets be clear knives made in Taiwan and Japan to the standard of Golden Co. are priced the same way. When you say "I make no allowances for where the knife comes from," You loose your right to say anything about how bars are set or why.

You didn't answer the question I asked you. You don't even own a Vantage do you?????

Ok, but that's a pretty low bar you're setting for a company like Buck. Buck didn't make it's reputation by telling it's customers, "What are you complaining about? It cuts, doesn't it?".[/

Do try to bear in mind with the fact we are talking about a $20 clam pack knife and not a Mayo TNT. And yes, I believe that Buck has it precisely right for the $20 knife customer. And by the way if that $20 knife has something wrong with it, they'll fix it and treat you just like you bought a $300 TNT.

Another question, exactly which $20 Chinese knife is better anyway?? Go ahead a pick a linerlock of similar size and lets compare it. The knife everybody likes to compare is the Tenacious but its a $36 knife. That's a 80% increase in price. Point is, what people seem to perceive to be $20 Asian knives is likey to really be a $35-$40 knives.

I guess you should tell me the $20 Chinese knife that is going to do this ASSUMED beatdown on the Vantage Select? Heck I think someone needs to do a review of that knife and a Vantage Select...maybe someone like STR to make the review.

Anyway, useless discussion really until we put two $20 knives side by side.

 

[mr dylan]

I feel your in the wrong to take the knife back after you've "worked on it". If you will just ship it to Buck they will fix it OR send you a new one. Send it back!!!! Don't return it use the warranty for what it was mint for!

i havnt done anything to it. i just tried to adjust the pivot to center it up.

 

[oxbld]

You got a lemon on that one. First day for a new Buck factory employee maybe? I love my small Vantage Select. I carry mine almost every day when I am not a work. Hell, I love it so much that I bought several of them to give to friends and to keep as backups. Anyway, Buck will take care of you, they stand behind their products. Way off-center blades that rub the liners and really bad grinds are not the usual from Buck, even in a $20 knife.

 

[Flatlander1963]

i havnt done anything to it. i just tried to adjust the pivot to center it up.

Is your knife a small Vantage (2.5in blade) or the standard one with 3.25 inch blade? Also, can you verify the handle material again. You said paperstone in your title line. Just wanted to make sure. I think Shecky is going to pick out a $20 Chinese knife he likes and I want to make sure I get the same model you purchased. Thanks

Edit, I've been assuming it's the large size knife but I'm starting to think it's the small select we actually have been discussing.

 

[all hood allen]

i have bought 3 vantage pros and 2 avids. and the grinds were off center in both the avids. but i reprofile almst all my knives anyway. dont put down the vantage. the pro is bad ass. easily comparable to and endure4.

and

The Avid is actually 13c27....I just happen to be holding mine in my hand.

actually the avid is 13c26

i have mine in my hand too.haha.its a sweet flipper for the price.

Do try to bear in mind with the fact we are talking about a $20 clam pack knife and not a Mayo TNT. And yes, I believe that Buck has it precisely right for the $20 knife customer. And by the way if that $20 knife has something wrong with it, they'll fix it and treat you just like you bought a $300 TNT.

Another question, exactly which $20 Chinese knife is better anyway?? Go ahead a pick a linerlock of similar size and lets compare it. The knife everybody likes to compare is the Tenacious but its a $36 knife. That's a 80% increase in price. Point is, what people seem to perceive to be $20 Asian knives is likey to really be a $35-$40 knives.

I guess you should tell me the $20 Chinese knife that is going to do this ASSUMED beatdown on the Vantage Select? Heck I think someone needs to do a review of that knife and a Vantage Select...maybe someone like STR to make the review.

Anyway, useless discussion really until we put two $20 knives side by side.

and if i was comparing chinese to american:
spyderco tenacios ($36) vs. buck vantage avid ($32)

 

[mr dylan]

Is your knife a small Vantage (2.5in blade) or the standard one with 3.25 inch blade? Also, can you verify the handle material again. You said paperstone in your title line. Just wanted to make sure. I think Shecky is going to pick out a $20 Chinese knife he likes and I want to make sure I get the same model you purchased. Thanks

Edit, I've been assuming it's the large size knife but I'm starting to think it's the small select we actually have been discussing.

it is the larger one with paperstone scales

 

[Hitzy]

With the difference in price down US side, Select $20, Avid $30, Pro $50 (approx), I don't know why anyone would buy the Select.

 

[shecky]

OK shecky whatever... but lets be clear knives made in Taiwan and Japan to the standard of Golden Co. are priced the same way. When you say "I make no allowances for where the knife comes from," You loose your right to say anything about how bars are set or why.

Come again? Why is it not permissible to compare knives in the same price range? Let's be clear, knives made in China to Golden CO (not sure what that has to do with anything, btw) standards are priced in the same range as the Buck of the OP. So are knives made to standards of several other companies from a variety of places.

But let's not get too far from the point. The standards of Golden CO or just about anywhere else are not the topic here. It the standards of Buck that are being scrutinized. That is what is critical here.

You didn't answer the question I asked you. You don't even own a Vantage do you?????

Nope. Don't own one. Which is also irrelevant, because the thread is about the experience of the OP, not mine.

Do try to bear in mind with the fact we are talking about a $20 clam pack knife and not a Mayo TNT. And yes, I believe that Buck has it precisely right for the $20 knife customer. And by the way if that $20 knife has something wrong with it, they'll fix it and treat you just like you bought a $300 TNT.

You're the one continually bringing up knives beyond the price range. I'm insisting on comparing apples with apples.

Regarding Buck's warranty, I'm glad to hear it. But this is a trope I've become increasingly wary of from defenders of good ole American manufacturing. Despite the warranty, the OP's knife is still a $20 knife that could use some rework. This is increasingly a theme being sold as a virtue of American knives. I'm not convinced that the privilege of having rework done for free is is much of a virtue at all, especially when rework needs to be done.

Another question, exactly which $20 Chinese knife is better anyway?? Go ahead a pick a linerlock of similar size and lets compare it. The knife everybody likes to compare is the Tenacious but its a $36 knife. That's a 80% increase in price. Point is, what people seem to perceive to be $20 Asian knives is likey to really be a $35-$40 knives.

Several of my Sanrenmu knives are better made than the knife described by a couple of posters here. And all of them were less than half the price. I don't know whose standards they are built to, but whoever they are, they also coincide with mine. From the experience of all the different models I own, I feel confident I could buy another sight unseen, and get a quality knife. Even if it had no warranty, because it won't need warranty work anyhow.

My Byrd knives also have been flawless. Same or less than the Buck, built to Golden CO standards.

I guess you should tell me the $20 Chinese knife that is going to do this ASSUMED beatdown on the Vantage Select? Heck I think someone needs to do a review of that knife and a Vantage Select...maybe someone like STR to make the review.

Anyway, useless discussion really until we put two $20 knives side by side.

Sure,*why not?

I'm not here to crap on Buck. In fact, I'm critical of Buck because I want it to succeed. Playing down Buck's flaws, in any price range, does no service to the longevity of the company, and in fact, may sow the seeds of it's demise, when customers are willing to put up with some warts just because of the warm fuzzies we get from Buck's reputation and the location of it's factory. Buck's competition may not have the luxury of resting on it's laurels in the same way, and will continue to improve until customers, even dedicated Buck fans, cannot ignore the truth. This happens all the time. And if Buck continues to let some slip through, such as the ones obtained by a couple of posters on this thread, all the assuaging from Buck fans will not be enough to save the company or it's reputation.

 

[Flatlander1963]

it is the larger one with paperstone scales

Excellent Mr. Dylan. Thanks :thumbup: I actually think this debate is going to turn into an interesting project.

So I'll get over to Walmart tomorrow if I can and see if I can buy one of these Vantage in Paperstone.

When Shecky tells me which $20 Asian knife to buy I'll get that ASAP too and then we'll do a comparo!

 

[Flatlander1963]

Come again? Why is it not permissible to compare knives in the same price range? Let's be clear, knives made in China to Golden CO (not sure what that has to do with anything, btw) standards are priced in the same range as the Buck of the OP. So are knives made to standards of several other companies from a variety of places.

But let's not get too far from the point. The standards of Golden CO or just about anywhere else are not the topic here. It the standards of the Vantage that are being scrutinized. That is what is critical here.



Nope. Don't own one. Which is also irrelevant, because the thread is about the experience of the OP, not mine.



You're the one continually bringing up knives beyond the price range. I'm insisting on comparing apples with apples.

Regarding Buck's warranty, I'm glad to hear it. But this is a trope I've become increasingly wary of from defenders of good ole American manufacturing. Despite the warranty, the OP's knife is still a $20 knife that could use some rework. This is increasingly a theme being sold as a virtue of American knives. I'm not convinced that the privilege of having rework done for free is is much of a virtue at all, especially when rework needs to be done.



Several of my Sanrenmu knives are better made than the knife described by a couple of posters here. And all of them were less than half the price. I don't know whose standards they are built to, but whoever they are, they also coincide with mine. From the experience of all the different models I own, I feel confident I could buy another sight unseen, and get a quality knife. Even if it had no warranty, because it won't need warranty work anyhow.

My Byrd knives also have been flawless. Same or less than the Buck, built to Golden CO standards.



Sure,*why not?

I'm not here to crap on Buck. In fact, I'm critical of Buck because I want it to succeed. Playing down Buck's flaws, in any price range, does no service to the longevity of the company, and in fact, may sow the seeds of it's demise, when customers are willing to put up with some warts just because of the warm fuzzies we get from Buck's reputation and the location of it's factory. Buck's competition may not have the luxury of resting on it's laurels in the same way, and will continue to improve until customers, even dedicated Buck fans, cannot ignore the truth. This happens all the time. And if Buck continues to let some slip through, such as the ones obtained by a couple of posters on this thread, all the assuaging from Buck fans will not be enough to save the company or it's reputation.

Can I summarize that all this as "Shecky doesn't think he gets value for his money with a Buck Knife." Not sure how you say this since you don't own the Vantage. Also, even if price is the only criteria for a comparison between a chinese and american knife you won't be comparing apples to apples. But lets not travel down that path.

Just give me a $20 knife you'd like to compare to a $20 Vantage. You didn't do it with this response above.