just picked up a buck vantage paperstone- very disappointed

[pilote]

there really is no reason to get all worked up about stuff on this BB...some threads i think are stupid or redundant; i just don't engage in them..easy.

but if you can't hold your then liqueur don't drink...

...and i got a half ton; i like that squat little guy...

 

[red1965]

Ok.... this seems to have turned into something completely different. I would like to state that this is not a Buck bash on my part. I will admit to not reading all of these posts, so maybe I am missing something here. I do own several Bucks that are great knives. I like Buck knives. I don't have a problem with Buck knives. I just think that the one I have experience with could have been a better finished knife. My comparison? The Spyderco Persistence. I purchased mine new for about the same money as the Buck. The Spyderco had even grinds, solid lockup, no blade play, etc. If Spyderco, who is a smaller company than Buck, can make a quality knife like this, why can't the other manufactures? All these knives can't hold a candle to my Hinderer,Reeve,and Dozier folders and I do not expect them to. What I am saying is that whether it cost $20 or $200 dollars there are some basic things that should be correct. Even grinds and a lock that works are two that come to mind.

 

[all hood allen]

Ok.... What I am saying is that whether it cost $20 or $200 dollars there are some basic things that should be correct. Even grinds and a lock that works are two that come to mind.

say word yo. i dont understand it either.

 

[shecky]

Ughh, I will take exception with this comment. How can even argue you're point without some familarity with a Vantage knife.

Easily. The OP and several others have noted flaws with their Vantages. It's perfectly reasonable to argue from their experience unless you're willing to say they are lying.

The SanRenMu's are blatant knockoffs which is to say stolen intellectual property. Let's keep this to a knife that's its own pattern at least.

You want to disqualify a knife because it's a copy? There are at least a couple things wrong here.

One, whether a knife is a copy or completely original says nothing about it's quality.

Second, claiming a knife is stolen intellectual property does not make it so. The burden of proving this claim is on the actual holder of intellectual property. Furthermore, unless there were very specific and well known procedures followed to protect this intellectual property, then the creator doesn't actually own it. A copier cannot steal an idea that is not actually owned by someone else.

Alright maybe not blatant, but definitely a wannabe cheap piece of crap copy.

How did you determine this? I've yet to see a single review of a Sanrenmu knife that says they are crap. Quite the contrary, the reviews seem to indicate they are very good.

 

[shecky]

What I am saying is that whether it cost $20 or $200 dollars there are some basic things that should be correct. Even grinds and a lock that works are two that come to mind.

This is the crux of the matter. In today's environment, I find little excuse for the problems found by several posters with these knives. If I find problems like these with any knife, I'm not going to cover up for the manufacturer. I don't care if it's a well loved domestic company or a no name foreign company. Good workmanship is good workmanship, and flaws are flaws. And in this case, I'm even a bit more critical, because I fully expect Buck's wares to live up to their well deserved reputation.

 

[Flatlander1963]

Shecky why did you make this post?

I will not be buying Idaho Bucks.:thumbdn:























Yes, it's ridiculous to buy something based on the piece of dirt the factory stands on.

You are starting to sound like a troll so I read your recent posts. Not sure your really are a troll but you do like busting Buck Inc.'s balls.

Since it's all about price with you maybe you should buy some German-made lamp shades from 1942-45. They are the very best of quality and produced at an extremely low cost. Maybe you will appreciate the analogy.

 

[frontline29]

How did you determine this? I've yet to see a single review of a Sanrenmu knife that says they are crap. Quite the contrary, the reviews seem to indicate they are very good.
Reply With Quote

Sorry, compared to the knives I usually buy, it is of much less quality...
It's also the thought of the company that's associated with the knife. It really rubs me the wrong way.

Even at the that price point, I still wouldn't touch it with a 20 foot pole.
I'd spend my money with a respectable company who doesn't need to stoop down to this kind of pathetic and sometimes blatant design theft to sell knives.

It's all good that some people support and defend this kind of behavior. To each his own.


Me, I wouldn't waste my money supporting a company that blatantly rip's off designs, and steals most of there designs characteristics from the good hard working company's that actually took the time to create the original.

 

[Flatlander1963]

Sorry, compared to the knives I usually buy, it is of much less quality...
It's also the thought of the company that's associated with the knife. It really rubs me the wrong way.

Even at the that price point, I still wouldn't touch it with a 20 foot pole.
I'd spend my money with a respectable company who doesn't need to stoop down to this kind of pathetic and sometimes blatant design theft to sell knives.

It's all good that some people support and defend this kind of behavior. To each his own.


Me, I wouldn't waste my money supporting a company that blatantly rip's off designs, and steals most of there designs characteristics from the good hard working company's that actually took the time to create the original.

Yea I agree Frontline. I think buying a knockoff Sebenza for $10 that was made in China would kinda feel like having a guy stick his head out a dirty back alley and say "ppsssttt; hey man, have I got a deal for you." :thumbdn: But if you don't care about anything but price, what the heck back the bus up and load it to the top.

 

[shecky]

Shecky why did you make this post?

Because some less enlightened folks insist on buying knives for really dubious reasons. Yes, even Buck knives.

But good on you for getting out your detective hat.

You are starting to sound like a troll so I read your recent posts. Not sure your really are a troll but you do like busting Buck Inc.'s balls.

This is nothing compared to what I say about Case knives. And I like Case knives.

Here's the thing. You're sounding like a fanboy with hurt feelings. I have no interest in busting balls for it's own sake. I also have no interest in sugar coating flaws. If a knife company is doing something wrong, I have no compunction calling it out. If you like the company, I consider it your duty to do so.

Since it's all about price with you maybe you should buy some German-made lamp shades from 1942-45. They are the very best of quality and produced at an extremely low cost. Maybe you will appreciate the analogy.

Talk politics elsewhere. I'm here to talk knives.

 

[frontline29]

Yea I agree Frontline. I think buying a knockoff Sebenza for $10 that was made in China would kinda feel like having a guy stick his head out a dirty back alley and say "ppsssttt; hey man, have I got a deal for you." :thumbdn: But if you don't care about anything but price, what the heck back the bus up and load it to the top.

exactly! Kinda makes you wanna go home and scrub your skin raw in a boiling hot shower for 4 or 5 hours!

On the other hand, it's sad if that's the only thing that matters when one buys a knife.

 

[shecky]

Yea I agree Frontline. I think buying a knockoff Sebenza for $10 that was made in China would kinda feel like having a guy stick his head out a dirty back alley and say "ppsssttt; hey man, have I got a deal for you." :thumbdn: But if you don't care about anything but price, what the heck back the bus up and load it to the top.

I care about way more than price. Which is exactly why I specifically pointed out those Chinese made brands. It goes beyond price. It's more a matter of value, which really has no price limit.

As for frontline29's rant, I've addressed those faux issues many a time, and have little patience for folks insisting on using misapplied dramatics to make a point. You can use your sleuthing powers to find them.

 

[frontline29]

This thread is so far off topic.

IMHO A company that associate's it's self with such low down and sleazy behavior, is not a company any self respecting knife enthusiast should support!

I'll end it at that.

 

[SteelSnob]

Ok.... this seems to have turned into something completely different. I would like to state that this is not a Buck bash on my part. I will admit to not reading all of these posts, so maybe I am missing something here. I do own several Bucks that are great knives. I like Buck knives. I don't have a problem with Buck knives. I just think that the one I have experience with could have been a better finished knife. My comparison? The Spyderco Persistence. I purchased mine new for about the same money as the Buck. The Spyderco had even grinds, solid lockup, no blade play, etc. If Spyderco, who is a smaller company than Buck, can make a quality knife like this, why can't the other manufactures? All these knives can't hold a candle to my Hinderer,Reeve,and Dozier folders and I do not expect them to. What I am saying is that whether it cost $20 or $200 dollars there are some basic things that should be correct. Even grinds and a lock that works are two that come to mind.

Spyderco doesn't make that knife. A manufacturer in China does. The only knives Spyderco reall makes are the ones from USA EARTH and say that on the blade

 

[george65]

The only knives Spyderco reall makes are the ones from USA EARTH and say that on the blade

are you sure spyderco makes those knives? or are they contracted out also?

 

[Flatlander1963]

Because some less enlightened folks insist on buying knives for really dubious reasons. Yes, even Buck knives.

But good on you for getting out your detective hat.

This is nothing compared to what I say about Case knives. And I like Case knives.

Here's the thing. You're sounding like a fanboy with hurt feelings. I have no interest in busting balls for it's own sake. I also have no interest in sugar coating flaws. If a knife company is doing something wrong, I have no compunction calling it out. If you like the company, I consider it your duty to do so.

Talk politics elsewhere. I'm here to talk knives.

Oh I see now your agenda is to save the remaining American knifemaker's by gleefully avoiding "sugar coating flaws. If a knife company is doing something wrong, I have no compunction calling it out." Please!!!!! You’re just trolling for the fun of it.

Yes I do like the Vantage. In fact, I like it a lot and I think it compares very well with competitor's knives at similar price points made in any of the knife producing countries save one: China.

It is a plain and simple fact that China produces goods for world consumption and that these goods range from low tech to high tech, but with one common feature...these goods are cheaper than anything anybody else in the world can produce for the same level of quality. And why is that??? How exactly did they do it??? First thing they did was peg their currency to the dollar at an unreasonably low exchange to ensure that at least in the U.S. their goods are always available on the cheap. Now what do they do with all their excess dollars?? And here is were the analogy about lampshades is relevant. There is a cost to this country's buying on the cheap from China, maybe even something hideous as implied by the lampshades analogy. So we buy from China at our peril; but then if you only care for getting your widget at the lowest price, you’ve can make your deal with the devil with a smile.

More tomorrow if I have time and can find a Paperstone Vantage at Wal-Mart.

 

[frontline29]

More tomorrow if I have time and can find a Paperstone Vantage at Wal-Mart.

I look forward to your thoughts on it. I might pick one up as well.

 

[pedalinbob]

Can I summarize that all this as "Shecky doesn't think he gets value for his money with a Buck Knife." Not sure how you say this since you don't own the Vantage. Also, even if price is the only criteria for a comparison between a chinese and american knife you won't be comparing apples to apples. But lets not travel down that path.

Just give me a $20 knife you'd like to compare to a $20 Vantage. You didn't do it with this response above.

Bucklite Max medium folder.

I LOVE that knife! I think of it as a cousin of the Vantage line. I have zero gripes about it. Heck, I think it performs like a much more expensive knife.

It is too bad the OP got a lemon. If he hasn't already, he should send it back to Buck because I bet they would straighten it out.
Often, if you are polite about things, companies may even throw in something extra for your trouble. I have received upgraded products and/or free schwag.

Despite the alarmingly common belief that companies are out to screw us, they really are trying to make products that we want to buy. If they provide an inferior product and/or poor customer service, send them a clear message by choosing a competitor.
But, we should first give them a chance to set things right.

 

[wingslevel]

i think Flats makes some good arguments. i've got a few of the Pro and Avid models and within price point think they compare well or looking at it the other way within similar specs they seem to be a good value. i do prefer USA made knives when meet my needs/wants but not opposed to having a few from other countries.

where i find the select/paperstone models serve me best (and have a few of them now) are as backups to have in the bags, glove box etc..where they weigh very little, cost next to nothing and will still perform if called upon. plus i edc a pro often so to find a $20 version that has the same flipper, lock and "feel" in the hand is just a bargain to me.

and i'd rather steer a knife "newbie" looking at the first knife of this style with a twenty in his pocket at walmart to one of these over any "Winchester" or "Gerber" of similar price. at least they get a good design, decent materials and great wtty while being made in the USA.

 

[red1965]

Spyderco doesn't make that knife. A manufacturer in China does. The only knives Spyderco reall makes are the ones from USA EARTH and say that on the blade

It doesnt really matter who makes it. The point I was trying to make is that for about the same money Spyderco (or whoever produces it) makes a good quaility blade in that price range. If one can, they all can. The comments of "Well you should have paid this dollar amount" or "Thats why I don't but this brand" are missing the point. Certain expectations should be met. Now the model I have is more than likely a fluke. This one made it out the door when it shouldnt have. Do I think the brand is junk? No. But working in the quality control field for many years I do know that a couple of bad examples can kill a brand name. If I purchase something that does not meet my expectations, I will be less likely to purchase that brand again.

 

[all hood allen]

Spyderco doesn't make that knife. A manufacturer in China does. The only knives Spyderco reall makes are the ones from USA EARTH and say that on the blade

wait it has their name on it right? and its in their production line?

if it has the spyderco name on it, its been aproved as one of spyderco's designs. may not be made in usa but its still a spyder.

if they wanted to seperate it from the regular spyderco name they would have made it a byrd. end of story.




and lets be honest the tenacious is almost untouched at its price.
remember the benchmade monochrome? benchmade pika 2? both were benchmade trying to beat out the spyderco tenacious.