Just saw this.....Bark River is no more?

shinyedges said:
Being complicit in the fraud, is a crime.
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According to the FTC text up there, it's not a crime if it was done under the employer's direction. Now if the employees were doing this on their own, without any direction, sure. That's illegal.

Accounting fraud doesn't fall under the same category as...manufacturing fraud (?), that's why they tend to face punishment for cooking the books.
 
DMG said:
Back on topic, can Stewart go to jail for this or are his issues merely civil?
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For the fraud, it's a possibility. Did he intend to mislead customers? Did he intend on defaulting on debt while misleading customers? Then it's possible he could be charged.
 
StuntDouble said:
According to the FTC text up there, it's not a crime if it was done under the employer's direction. Now if the employees were doing this on their own, without any direction, sure. That's illegal.

Accounting fraud doesn't fall under the same category as...manufacturing fraud (?), that's why they tend to face punishment for cooking the books.
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The ftc fraud is only one element of fraud in this case.
 
shinyedges said:
If they knowingly violated a law, they could be held as being complicit. Not an opinion, a fact. It's applied all the time. Thanks for your opinion.
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They didn't beak the law any more than assemblers in the pinto plant broke the law why installing the low strength springs in the ignition. It's the designers/coroprate decision makers who broke the law.

Even in the Pinto case nobody went to jail: An Indiana grand jury indicted Ford on three counts of reckless homicide — a landmark moment as the first time a corporation had ever faced criminal charges for a defective product, and the first time a corporation was charged with homicide. The charges stemmed from the deaths of three young women whose 1973 Pinto burst into flames after being rear-ended. An Indiana jury found Ford "not guilty" after a 10-week trial. Even if convicted, the maximum fine Ford faced under Indiana's 1978 reckless homicide statute was only $30,000. The company as a whole was charged with criminal conduct, but no actual executives stood trial. The prosecution targeted the corporation as an entity, not Lee Iacocca or any of the engineers or managers who made the cost-benefit decisions.

Ford as a corporation was found civilly liable and paid out in well over 100 cases. No individual executive — not Iacocca, not the engineers who ran the cost-benefit analysis, nobody — was ever personally named as a civil defendant in a judgment.

The Pinto fiasco produced massive civil liability and a historic (if failed) criminal prosecution of the company, but not a single person ever faced personal criminal jeopardy for it.

you may feel wronged by the whole thing but the grinder didn't do anything to you legally.
 
StuntDouble said:
According to the FTC text up there, it's not a crime if it was done under the employer's direction. Now if the employees were doing this on their own, without any direction, sure. That's illegal.

Accounting fraud doesn't fall under the same category as...manufacturing fraud (?), that's why they tend to face punishment for cooking the books.
Click to expand...

Plus accounting fraud is frequently associated with tax evasion which is much more likely to get you in trouble.
 
JasonInVa said:
They didn't beak the law any more than assemblers in the pinto plant broke the law why installing the low strength springs in the ignition. It's the designers/coroprate decision makers who broke the law.

Even in the Pinto case nobody went to jail: An Indiana grand jury indicted Ford on three counts of reckless homicide — a landmark moment as the first time a corporation had ever faced criminal charges for a defective product, and the first time a corporation was charged with homicide. The charges stemmed from the deaths of three young women whose 1973 Pinto burst into flames after being rear-ended. An Indiana jury found Ford "not guilty" after a 10-week trial. Even if convicted, the maximum fine Ford faced under Indiana's 1978 reckless homicide statute was only $30,000. The company as a whole was charged with criminal conduct, but no actual executives stood trial. The prosecution targeted the corporation as an entity, not Lee Iacocca or any of the engineers or managers who made the cost-benefit decisions.


The Pinto fiasco produced massive civil liability and a historic (if failed) criminal prosecution of the company, but not a single person ever faced personal criminal jeopardy for it.

you may feel wronged by the whole thing but the grinder didn't do anything to you legally.
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You aren't the arbiter of what constitutes fraud, nor what is or isn't complicit in a scheme to deceive customers/creditors.

Anyway, thanks for chiming in.
 
Why is everyone so upset… didn’t you read that Mike said in his “apology” that he tested the cheap Chinese steel extensively to make sure it was up to his standards before defrauding customers. (Extreme sarcasm for anyone wondering)

What a POS, legendary POS. MOUNT RUSHMORE POS.
 
JasonInVa said:
They didn't beak the law any more than assemblers in the pinto plant broke the law why installing the low strength springs in the ignition. It's the designers/coroprate decision makers who broke the law.

Even in the Pinto case nobody went to jail: An Indiana grand jury indicted Ford on three counts of reckless homicide — a landmark moment as the first time a corporation had ever faced criminal charges for a defective product, and the first time a corporation was charged with homicide. The charges stemmed from the deaths of three young women whose 1973 Pinto burst into flames after being rear-ended. An Indiana jury found Ford "not guilty" after a 10-week trial. Even if convicted, the maximum fine Ford faced under Indiana's 1978 reckless homicide statute was only $30,000. The company as a whole was charged with criminal conduct, but no actual executives stood trial. The prosecution targeted the corporation as an entity, not Lee Iacocca or any of the engineers or managers who made the cost-benefit decisions.

Ford as a corporation was found civilly liable and paid out in well over 100 cases. No individual executive — not Iacocca, not the engineers who ran the cost-benefit analysis, nobody — was ever personally named as a civil defendant in a judgment.

The Pinto fiasco produced massive civil liability and a historic (if failed) criminal prosecution of the company, but not a single person ever faced personal criminal jeopardy for it.

you may feel wronged by the whole thing but the grinder didn't do anything to you legally.
Click to expand...

The Ford employees didn’t know the car was a death trap.

BRKT employees might have known that what they were doing was unethical. What I doubt they knew was, there are federal laws that will protect an employee that blows the whistle.
 
You guys who are pretending to know the law should really quit while you're ahead. What you think might be "right" is not the same thing.

And D DMG let me see if I can give a simple example of why I said what I did about why you wouldn't be picked for a jury if the truth about your opinion was known.

Let's say you were in a jury pool for a mob trial. You're from the Pittsburgh area, and I've had mob investigations that involved that area.

So, imagine that the defendant to be tried was of Italian descent and didn't have blue hair. But for the sake of argument, you didn't care for people of Italian heritage...for whatever reason, it doesn't matter.

It might not come out if you were asked during voir dire whether you had any prejudice against those of Italian descent,..if you were not honest in your reply. But if you were truthful, you would be dismissed...either by the judge, defense or prosecution.

And that's why I said you wouldn't be picked. It's not because a woman with blue hair made a post on the web. It's because of what you said your impression is of blue haired libs and what they believe or stand for.

And that's all I have to say about that.
 
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