Just saw this.....Bark River is no more?

[Bladeandbarrel]

Every 10-15 years there is a Big "I TOLD YOU SO" in the knife business. Strider, Stewart, there is always a common there-murky military or secret past, association with real life heroes or industry celebrities, lots of money taken and lots of excuses....and the old "If I tell you, I have to kill you"...buyer beware. Knives are great, enjoy them-buy great knives that you love because they are well made and speak to you, don't buy into the hype and hero worship.

 

[Blues]

Every 10-15 years there is a Big "I TOLD YOU SO" in the knife business. Strider, Stewart, there is always a common there-murky military or secret past, association with real life heroes or industry celebrities, lots of money taken and lots of excuses....and the old "If I tell you, I have to kill you"...buyer beware. Knives are great, enjoy them-buy great knives that you love because they are well made and speak to you, don't buy into the hype and hero worship.

And yet, for a fact, there are dishonest makers (and companies) that should be outed for unethical and / or criminal behavior...and who should not, (in my opinion), be supported regardless of how nice their work might appear to be.

This is information which should be available to every potential customer...and then they can decide for themselves what to do with it.

 

[StuntDouble]

Maybe I'm off base here, but it seems one thing a lot of these brands that get caught doing fraud have in common is "Made in America" is part of their marketing. I know some folks won't buy anything unless it has that printed on the box, but I think focusing on that causes a lot of people to have blinders. It's almost like they're more willing to buy into a brand that makes those claims, rather than have more scrutiny. "Well they're made in America, so they must be the best!".

Like I said, I could be way off base, and I'm not trying to blame the buyers, but I just think it's one aspect of why these scams are able to rope so many people in and go on for so long.

 

[Blues]

A lot of these American companies weasel word the connection to the USA with a variety of methods.

You can have words to the effect of "Proudly Built in the USA", which leaves room for "with parts sourced globally" and such, which are not always stated but might be inferred. (Assembled in the USA is another.)

I'm not at all against quality knives which are built abroad, (by reputable people in countries which are not our enemies), but I do find it offensive when a company tries to weasel word a patriotic theme by implying something which is not, in fact, true. Just be straight with the customers.

 

[SharpBits]

Conmen will try to exploit any kind of “movement”, for lack of a better word, like made in America or veteran owned or we support animals or save the whales, etc. It’s frequently lucrative to exploit people who are trying to do some good with their money.

 

[DMG]

Maybe I'm off base here, but it seems one thing a lot of these brands that get caught doing fraud have in common is "Made in America" is part of their marketing. I know some folks won't buy anything unless it has that printed on the box, but I think focusing on that causes a lot of people to have blinders. It's almost like they're more willing to buy into a brand that makes those claims, rather than have more scrutiny. "Well they're made in America, so they must be the best!".

Like I said, I could be way off base, and I'm not trying to blame the buyers, but I just think it's one aspect of why these scams are able to rope so many people in and go on for so long.

I admit to making positive assumptions about US made knives and makers. I think we also have higher expectations when we do business with US based makers. I am never surprised to hear that a Chinese brand has substituted a lesser than advertised steel or done a poor HT, for example.

 

[shinyedges]

Like Jared west of qtrmstr or whatever it is. Buy from China and sell as usa made. They should stiffen the penalties significantly for capitalizing on people's intent to support American businesses while funding an enemy. In my opinion.

 

[Medieval Peasant]

Maybe I'm off base here, but it seems one thing a lot of these brands that get caught doing fraud have in common is "Made in America" is part of their marketing. I know some folks won't buy anything unless it has that printed on the box, but I think focusing on that causes a lot of people to have blinders. It's almost like they're more willing to buy into a brand that makes those claims, rather than have more scrutiny. "Well they're made in America, so they must be the best!".

Like I said, I could be way off base, and I'm not trying to blame the buyers, but I just think it's one aspect of why these scams are able to rope so many people in and go on for so long.

Implied patriotism is a real selling point. The EDC culture is the strongest in the US mainly because of our laws that allow most of the knives that we collect.

 

[madcap_magician]

Like Jared west of qtrmstr or whatever it is. Buy from China and sell as usa made. They should stiffen the penalties significantly for capitalizing on people's intent to support American businesses while funding an enemy. In my opinion.

Qtrmstr was so bad it was almost funny, though. Super Secret Texas Knaf Museum in a shed!

 

[Blues]

Like Jared west of qtrmstr or whatever it is. Buy from China and sell as usa made. They should stiffen the penalties significantly for capitalizing on people's intent to support American businesses while funding an enemy. In my opinion.

There are plenty of customs laws regarding international trade and labeling, and only a portion of what comes into the country can be examined by proper authority. Then, on top of that, there is the problem of packaging and labels which can be easily removed and swapped after the fact.

Add to this, that criminal behavior has to rise above a certain threshold to be considered for prosecution because of simple manpower limitations.

But yeah, even fines and penalties which don't require courtroom proceedings "can" be a deterrent...to those who aren't committed to operating outside of the law.

 

[StuntDouble]

There are plenty of customs laws regarding international trade and labeling, and only a portion of what comes into the country can be examined by proper authority. Then, on top of that, there is the problem of packaging and labels which can be easily removed and swapped after the fact.

Add to this, that criminal behavior has to rise above a certain threshold to be considered for prosecution because of simple manpower limitations.

But yeah, even fines and penalties which don't require courtroom proceedings "can" be a deterrent...to those who aren't committed to operating outside of the law.

Don't ask me how it could be done or even if it would work, but it seems the knife industry would benefit from some sort of oversight committee, at the very least for companies claiming to be completely made in the US. Again, I'm not sure if that's even a realistic solution, but it doesn't seem right putting all the responsibility on the consumer.

 

[M.FREEZE]

Is it knife steel or knife steal?

 

[DMG]

Don't ask me how it could be done or even if it would work, but it seems the knife industry would benefit from some sort of oversight committee, at the very least for companies claiming to be completely made in the US. Again, I'm not sure if that's even a realistic solution, but it doesn't seem right putting all the responsibility on the consumer.

I think there is some basic oversight in the form of labeling laws for every product.

Reminds me of when Ford tried to enter one of their new products in some magazines domestic car of the year competition. They were told that since it was made in Canada, it could only compete in the import car of the year comp.

 

[DavidZ]

For me, the sad part about this happening, as well as others we've experienced, has made me jaded in regards to knives all together. When we buy a knife or any product for that matter, we have to have faith that what we're buying is what it's supposed to be. Without that belief, our enthusiasm wanes, and cynicism takes over, as we can't trust anything.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Don't ask me how it could be done or even if it would work, but it seems the knife industry would benefit from some sort of oversight committee, at the very least for companies claiming to be completely made in the US. Again, I'm not sure if that's even a realistic solution, but it doesn't seem right putting all the responsibility on the consumer.

Oversight always costs money. This will increase knife prices, which are already out of control.

Folks need to do their due diligence and stop relying on other people to do it for them.

If folks checked out all the years of accusations of BRK…well…ya.

 

[Burke]

Ha! Pretty sure that was a typo for raffles. Mike is / was big on raffles for all sorts of things.

I think they are either banned on Facebook or on legally suspect grounds in some jurisdictions so many of the "raffle" groups on Facebook use "waffles" to avoid automated tools banning them.

Doesn't surprise me in the least a guy like Mike would be big on raffles - great way to get more than something is worth by selling "chances" or alternatively to even fix the winners and not have to actually follow through.

 

[jbmonkey]

we've all been warned about mike stewart, from very credible folks so many times in the past, since this forum was created pretty much...but some chose to ignore it. thats on them.

 

[StuntDouble]

Oversight always costs money. This will increase knife prices, which are already out of control.

Folks need to do their due diligence and stop relying on other people to do it for them.

If folks checked out all the years of accusations of BRK…well…ya.

Good point, that's why I wasn't sure if it was even feasible. I don't think manufacturers would be interested in helping fund something that would tattle on them if they weren't abiding by the law.

 

[beeinak]

For me, the sad part about this happening, as well as others we've experienced, has made me jaded in regards to knives all together. When we buy a knife or any product for that matter, we have to have faith that what we're buying is what it's supposed to be. Without that belief, our enthusiasm wanes, and cynicism takes over, as we can't trust anything.

I understand that feeling, but there are lots of great knives being made by great people still.

 

[shinyedges]

There are plenty of customs laws regarding international trade and labeling, and only a portion of what comes into the country can be examined by proper authority. Then, on top of that, there is the problem of packaging and labels which can be easily removed and swapped after the fact.

Add to this, that criminal behavior has to rise above a certain threshold to be considered for prosecution because of simple manpower limitations.

But yeah, even fines and penalties which don't require courtroom proceedings "can" be a deterrent...to those who aren't committed to operating outside of the law.

I get the limited ability considering the sheer number of people and product that is in commerce, perhaps setting an example of some offenders and making it public would also be a good deterrent. Pretty low on the priority totem pole, I'd imagine.