Just saw this.....Bark River is no more?

[Sharp & Fiery]

Don't ask me how it could be done or even if it would work, but it seems the knife industry would benefit from some sort of oversight committee, at the very least for companies claiming to be completely made in the US. Again, I'm not sure if that's even a realistic solution, but it doesn't seem right putting all the responsibility on the consumer.

Oversight always costs money. This will increase knife prices, which are already out of control.

Folks need to do their due diligence and stop relying on other people to do it for them.

If folks checked out all the years of accusations of BRK…well…ya.

 

[Burke]

Ha! Pretty sure that was a typo for raffles. Mike is / was big on raffles for all sorts of things.

I think they are either banned on Facebook or on legally suspect grounds in some jurisdictions so many of the "raffle" groups on Facebook use "waffles" to avoid automated tools banning them.

Doesn't surprise me in the least a guy like Mike would be big on raffles - great way to get more than something is worth by selling "chances" or alternatively to even fix the winners and not have to actually follow through.

 

[jbmonkey]

we've all been warned about mike stewart, from very credible folks so many times in the past, since this forum was created pretty much...but some chose to ignore it. thats on them.

 

[StuntDouble]

Oversight always costs money. This will increase knife prices, which are already out of control.

Folks need to do their due diligence and stop relying on other people to do it for them.

If folks checked out all the years of accusations of BRK…well…ya.

Good point, that's why I wasn't sure if it was even feasible. I don't think manufacturers would be interested in helping fund something that would tattle on them if they weren't abiding by the law.

 

[beeinak]

For me, the sad part about this happening, as well as others we've experienced, has made me jaded in regards to knives all together. When we buy a knife or any product for that matter, we have to have faith that what we're buying is what it's supposed to be. Without that belief, our enthusiasm wanes, and cynicism takes over, as we can't trust anything.

I understand that feeling, but there are lots of great knives being made by great people still.

 

[shinyedges]

There are plenty of customs laws regarding international trade and labeling, and only a portion of what comes into the country can be examined by proper authority. Then, on top of that, there is the problem of packaging and labels which can be easily removed and swapped after the fact.

Add to this, that criminal behavior has to rise above a certain threshold to be considered for prosecution because of simple manpower limitations.

But yeah, even fines and penalties which don't require courtroom proceedings "can" be a deterrent...to those who aren't committed to operating outside of the law.

I get the limited ability considering the sheer number of people and product that is in commerce, perhaps setting an example of some offenders and making it public would also be a good deterrent. Pretty low on the priority totem pole, I'd imagine.

 

[mitchnola]

Oversight always costs money. This will increase knife prices, which are already out of control.

Folks need to do their due diligence and stop relying on other people to do it for them.

If folks checked out all the years of accusations of BRK…well…ya.

The responsibility should fall on the retailers to garuntee the knives they’re selling as made in the usa are actually done so. They’re already in a position to be able to make makers confrm it is so because they want their product on these retail sites. A simple solution imo

More importantly American made needs to be clearly defined as 90% of all parts are made in the USA. I leave 10% open but could even be less because personally I could care less if washers, screws packaging etc come from overseas. It’s nice when they don’t but not a deal breaker for me. Just my opinion though.

 

[Medieval Peasant]

we've all been warned about mike stewart, from very credible folks so many times in the past, since this forum was created pretty much...but some chose to ignore it. thats on them.

That pretty much sums up my feelings. I wasn’t surprised when I read the news on this because people have been warned for well over a decade about Mike Stewart. People that don’t research a brand before buying deserve what they bought

 

[Mistwalker]

It made at least a bit of difference. I found enough evidence that made me avoid brk years ago.

Same

 

[mitchnola]

Every 10-15 years there is a Big "I TOLD YOU SO" in the knife business. Strider, Stewart, there is always a common there-murky military or secret past, association with real life heroes or industry celebrities, lots of money taken and lots of excuses....and the old "If I tell you, I have to kill you"...buyer beware. Knives are great, enjoy them-buy great knives that you love because they are well made and speak to you, don't buy into the hype and hero worship.

Completely agree! I especially dislike the altar boys of any knife maker that refuse to acknowledge much less accept realities of actual flaws or negativities. I can think of a few makers that have a large following of these altar boys.

Don’t you dare point out any negatives or god forbid have a complaint. Kind of pathetic to put anyone on such a high horse for any reason much less a knife.

 

[jbmonkey]

ive seen this before in my industry in my state.
they max out the credit lines shove all the money they can over time into a big personal home(works here in florida, Michigan has dollar limits) and 401k and iras and things that cant be touched on bankruptcy. they let the legal system work. when the credit lines win the suits and get judgements....and all the legal dust has settled...they claim federal bankruptcy get all the judgements wiped out and other debts and sail on pretty much free and clear other than credit score...but often their wives/husbands or other family members are clear of the damage....so basically they sail on. its a rotten tactic really rotten folks use......especially closer to retirement ages.

not saying mike had this plan in place, but nothing would surprise me.

 

[DMG]

ive seen this before in my industry in my state.
they max out the credit lines shove all the money they can over time into a big personal home(works here in florida, Michigan has dollar limits) and 401k and iras and things that cant be touched on bankruptcy. they let the legal system work. when the credit lines win the suits and get judgements....and all the legal dust has settled...they claim federal bankruptcy get all the judgements wiped out and other debts and sail on pretty much free and clear other than credit score...but often their wives/husbands or other family members are clear of the damage....so basically they sail on. its a rotten tactic really rotten folks use......especially closer to retirement ages.

not saying mike had this plan in place, but nothing would surprise me.

It is sadly common.

 

[somber]

Mike Stewart lives in a home that’s two levels above a mobile home.

Where the money went, I have no clue, but unless he lined the walls in gold, the money he took isn’t in his real estate holdings

Even the ship was a rental.

 

[StuntDouble]

Mike Stewart lives in a home that’s two levels above a mobile home.

Where the money went, I have no clue, but unless he lined the walls in gold, the money he took isn’t in his real estate holdings

You don't have to necessarily live in a home that you own...

I'm a little slow, but it just now occurred to me that him trying to put all the blame on himself was likely to try and keep any investigations focused primarily on him, and off family members that might have "accepted" money or property he was trying to hide.

 

[Blues]

Don't ask me how it could be done or even if it would work, but it seems the knife industry would benefit from some sort of oversight committee, at the very least for companies claiming to be completely made in the US. Again, I'm not sure if that's even a realistic solution, but it doesn't seem right putting all the responsibility on the consumer.

It's not realistic for the knife industry as a separate entity.

As an example...back in the 90's while I was still working as a special agent in Miami, I got wind of a large seizure of knives which had been imported from Asia. Can't recall if they came in by air or sea.

There was a knife show going on in Miami which I attended, and some of the exhibitors / vendors who knew me and what I did, cornered me to ask what was up.

They were under the impression that Customs had seized the knives for being illegal for one thing or another...that had to with size, legality of carry etc. which got them up in arms. I had to explain to them that the issue was that the containers were full of goods which had not been labeled in compliance with the law and as a result were seized and not permitted into commerce in the United States. I think there may have been some auto knives which were also outlawed from importation.

Anyway, they were relieved it was simply that the lower end knives they were importing weren't illegal for what they were, but for failure to meet proper labeling and paperwork to be admitted into the U.S. as regards country of origin. I can't speak to whether any of them tried to pass them off as something other than foreign made to the unsuspecting, as these weren't the kinds of knives most collectors like us would be interested in.

But, the fact is that the matter was considered small potatoes by the standards for fraud and commercial violations, so most of the product was, as I recall, simply destroyed since it was the least expensive outcome. No criminal indictments came from any of it.

Long way of saying, that as much as it matters to us...absent a large case involving massive fraud in the millions of dollars, it's unlikely that it's going to move the needle for most investigative agencies. Just the way it is.

 

[collecter]

The responsibility should fall on the retailers to garuntee the knives they’re selling as made in the usa are actually done so. They’re already in a position to be able to make makers confrm it is so because they want their product on these retail sites. A simple solution imo

Putting the origin on the retailer feels like a stretch unless they're in the same town.

This brand had serious criticism 20 years ago and this forum made me question if it was funded or owned by brkt because of how strong the opposition against any negative reviews was.

BRKT employees knew down to the lowest paid guy that throws the cardboard boxes in the recycle bin.

 

[somber]

You don't have to necessarily live in a home that you own...

I'm a little slow, but it just now occurred to me that him trying to put all the blame on himself was likely to try and keep any investigations focused primarily on him, and off family members that might have "accepted" money or property he was trying to hide.

I can understand that perspective, but at one point even kids had signed their homes up to the bank as collateral.

I don’t know the status of those loans, but who knows if Mike even owns his home right now?

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

The responsibility should fall on the retailers to garuntee the knives they’re selling as made in the usa are actually done so. They’re already in a position to be able to make makers confrm it is so because they want their product on these retail sites. A simple solution imo

And how do you suppose this would work? Putting the blame on retailers? Ummm…so would you have walmart go through all their stuff and confirm providence?

Retailers have to trust the makers word.

 

[1066vik]

as an example of doing it the right way by a knife company: a while back, the US foundry producing 1095 cro-van steel shut down. That's the primary steel for most of KaBar's knives that are actually produced in the USA. As a result, they had to start ordering their steel from a German supplier. Due to a tightening of the laws concerning "USA made", they had to remove the USA marking off their knives in 2019 or 2020, because foreign steel was the main component of their product and NO amount of processes done in country was enough for them to label the knives as a USA product under those laws.

 

[Chefget]

Every 10-15 years there is a Big "I TOLD YOU SO" in the knife business. Strider, Stewart, there is always a common there-murky military or secret past, association with real life heroes or industry celebrities, lots of money taken and lots of excuses....and the old "If I tell you, I have to kill you"...buyer beware. Knives are great, enjoy them-buy great knives that you love because they are well made and speak to you, don't buy into the hype and hero worship.

Good to see you drop by Anthony!