Just saw this.....Bark River is no more?

[mitchnola]

Oversight always costs money. This will increase knife prices, which are already out of control.

Folks need to do their due diligence and stop relying on other people to do it for them.

If folks checked out all the years of accusations of BRK…well…ya.

The responsibility should fall on the retailers to garuntee the knives they’re selling as made in the usa are actually done so. They’re already in a position to be able to make makers confrm it is so because they want their product on these retail sites. A simple solution imo

More importantly American made needs to be clearly defined as 90% of all parts are made in the USA. I leave 10% open but could even be less because personally I could care less if washers, screws packaging etc come from overseas. It’s nice when they don’t but not a deal breaker for me. Just my opinion though.

 

[Medieval Peasant]

we've all been warned about mike stewart, from very credible folks so many times in the past, since this forum was created pretty much...but some chose to ignore it. thats on them.

That pretty much sums up my feelings. I wasn’t surprised when I read the news on this because people have been warned for well over a decade about Mike Stewart. People that don’t research a brand before buying deserve what they bought

 

[Mistwalker]

It made at least a bit of difference. I found enough evidence that made me avoid brk years ago.

Same

 

[mitchnola]

Every 10-15 years there is a Big "I TOLD YOU SO" in the knife business. Strider, Stewart, there is always a common there-murky military or secret past, association with real life heroes or industry celebrities, lots of money taken and lots of excuses....and the old "If I tell you, I have to kill you"...buyer beware. Knives are great, enjoy them-buy great knives that you love because they are well made and speak to you, don't buy into the hype and hero worship.

Completely agree! I especially dislike the altar boys of any knife maker that refuse to acknowledge much less accept realities of actual flaws or negativities. I can think of a few makers that have a large following of these altar boys.

Don’t you dare point out any negatives or god forbid have a complaint. Kind of pathetic to put anyone on such a high horse for any reason much less a knife.

 

[jbmonkey]

ive seen this before in my industry in my state.
they max out the credit lines shove all the money they can over time into a big personal home(works here in florida, Michigan has dollar limits) and 401k and iras and things that cant be touched on bankruptcy. they let the legal system work. when the credit lines win the suits and get judgements....and all the legal dust has settled...they claim federal bankruptcy get all the judgements wiped out and other debts and sail on pretty much free and clear other than credit score...but often their wives/husbands or other family members are clear of the damage....so basically they sail on. its a rotten tactic really rotten folks use......especially closer to retirement ages.

not saying mike had this plan in place, but nothing would surprise me.

 

[DMG]

ive seen this before in my industry in my state.
they max out the credit lines shove all the money they can over time into a big personal home(works here in florida, Michigan has dollar limits) and 401k and iras and things that cant be touched on bankruptcy. they let the legal system work. when the credit lines win the suits and get judgements....and all the legal dust has settled...they claim federal bankruptcy get all the judgements wiped out and other debts and sail on pretty much free and clear other than credit score...but often their wives/husbands or other family members are clear of the damage....so basically they sail on. its a rotten tactic really rotten folks use......especially closer to retirement ages.

not saying mike had this plan in place, but nothing would surprise me.

It is sadly common.

 

[somber]

Mike Stewart lives in a home that’s two levels above a mobile home.

Where the money went, I have no clue, but unless he lined the walls in gold, the money he took isn’t in his real estate holdings

Even the ship was a rental.

 

[StuntDouble]

Mike Stewart lives in a home that’s two levels above a mobile home.

Where the money went, I have no clue, but unless he lined the walls in gold, the money he took isn’t in his real estate holdings

You don't have to necessarily live in a home that you own...

I'm a little slow, but it just now occurred to me that him trying to put all the blame on himself was likely to try and keep any investigations focused primarily on him, and off family members that might have "accepted" money or property he was trying to hide.

 

[Blues]

Don't ask me how it could be done or even if it would work, but it seems the knife industry would benefit from some sort of oversight committee, at the very least for companies claiming to be completely made in the US. Again, I'm not sure if that's even a realistic solution, but it doesn't seem right putting all the responsibility on the consumer.

It's not realistic for the knife industry as a separate entity.

As an example...back in the 90's while I was still working as a special agent in Miami, I got wind of a large seizure of knives which had been imported from Asia. Can't recall if they came in by air or sea.

There was a knife show going on in Miami which I attended, and some of the exhibitors / vendors who knew me and what I did, cornered me to ask what was up.

They were under the impression that Customs had seized the knives for being illegal for one thing or another...that had to with size, legality of carry etc. which got them up in arms. I had to explain to them that the issue was that the containers were full of goods which had not been labeled in compliance with the law and as a result were seized and not permitted into commerce in the United States. I think there may have been some auto knives which were also outlawed from importation.

Anyway, they were relieved it was simply that the lower end knives they were importing weren't illegal for what they were, but for failure to meet proper labeling and paperwork to be admitted into the U.S. as regards country of origin. I can't speak to whether any of them tried to pass them off as something other than foreign made to the unsuspecting, as these weren't the kinds of knives most collectors like us would be interested in.

But, the fact is that the matter was considered small potatoes by the standards for fraud and commercial violations, so most of the product was, as I recall, simply destroyed since it was the least expensive outcome. No criminal indictments came from any of it.

Long way of saying, that as much as it matters to us...absent a large case involving massive fraud in the millions of dollars, it's unlikely that it's going to move the needle for most investigative agencies. Just the way it is.

 

[collecter]

The responsibility should fall on the retailers to garuntee the knives they’re selling as made in the usa are actually done so. They’re already in a position to be able to make makers confrm it is so because they want their product on these retail sites. A simple solution imo

Putting the origin on the retailer feels like a stretch unless they're in the same town.

This brand had serious criticism 20 years ago and this forum made me question if it was funded or owned by brkt because of how strong the opposition against any negative reviews was.

BRKT employees knew down to the lowest paid guy that throws the cardboard boxes in the recycle bin.

 

[somber]

You don't have to necessarily live in a home that you own...

I'm a little slow, but it just now occurred to me that him trying to put all the blame on himself was likely to try and keep any investigations focused primarily on him, and off family members that might have "accepted" money or property he was trying to hide.

I can understand that perspective, but at one point even kids had signed their homes up to the bank as collateral.

I don’t know the status of those loans, but who knows if Mike even owns his home right now?

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

The responsibility should fall on the retailers to garuntee the knives they’re selling as made in the usa are actually done so. They’re already in a position to be able to make makers confrm it is so because they want their product on these retail sites. A simple solution imo

And how do you suppose this would work? Putting the blame on retailers? Ummm…so would you have walmart go through all their stuff and confirm providence?

Retailers have to trust the makers word.

 

[1066vik]

as an example of doing it the right way by a knife company: a while back, the US foundry producing 1095 cro-van steel shut down. That's the primary steel for most of KaBar's knives that are actually produced in the USA. As a result, they had to start ordering their steel from a German supplier. Due to a tightening of the laws concerning "USA made", they had to remove the USA marking off their knives in 2019 or 2020, because foreign steel was the main component of their product and NO amount of processes done in country was enough for them to label the knives as a USA product under those laws.

 

[Chefget]

Every 10-15 years there is a Big "I TOLD YOU SO" in the knife business. Strider, Stewart, there is always a common there-murky military or secret past, association with real life heroes or industry celebrities, lots of money taken and lots of excuses....and the old "If I tell you, I have to kill you"...buyer beware. Knives are great, enjoy them-buy great knives that you love because they are well made and speak to you, don't buy into the hype and hero worship.

Good to see you drop by Anthony!

 

[J. Doyle]

as an example of doing it the right way by a knife company: a while back, the US foundry producing 1095 cro-van steel shut down. That's the primary steel for most of KaBar's knives that are actually produced in the USA. As a result, they had to start ordering their steel from a German supplier. Due to a tightening of the laws concerning "USA made", they had to remove the USA marking off their knives in 2019 or 2020, because foreign steel was the main component of their product and NO amount of processes done in country was enough for them to label the knives as a USA product under those laws.

I can't speak as to the laws as I'm not well versed in that. And Im assuming what you say is accurate.

Its also unfortunate because that would mean a LOT (maybe most?......nearly all?) knives wouldn't meet the "Made In USA" standard.

That may be the law but it isn't a realistic standard to judge makers by.

Much of the steel isn't made in the US. And almost all of us use titanium not from the US.

But bars of steel and titanium sheet aren't very practical for cut and carry. The blades and liners/frames are made here. That's made in the US as far as I'm concerned.

Im going to keep saying my knives are made in the US. Im not 100% sure where the washers and a few screw types are made and frankly, I don't care. My knives are still made in the US.

 

[mitchnola]

Putting the origin on the retailer feels like a stretch unless they're in the same town.

This brand had serious criticism 20 years ago and this forum made me question if it was funded or owned by brkt because of how strong the opposition against any negative reviews was.

BRKT employees knew down to the lowest paid guy that throws the cardboard boxes in the recycle bin.

True! I’m not suggesting retailers should be held responsible for discovering despicable business practices that we’re discussing here. But there are simple ways to prove a product is made in your own shop or by an oem located in the US.

And how do you suppose this would work? Putting the blame on retailers? Ummm…so would you have walmart go through all their stuff and confirm providence?

Retailers have to trust the makers word.

Easy, as a retailer if you want me to advertise your product as made in the US then prove it to me. Send me pics of your shop and product in the process of production. If you’re outsourcing to an oem then that should be easily done with them as well.

This takes relatively no time at all much less money. There’s one retailer already doing this, usamadeblade. Other retailers also notes country of origin. And yes if they’re going to sell a product as made in the USA they should confirm that’s the case. As a wise man once said “trust but verify”!

And I’m not suggesting retailers should be held responsible as in face any penalties. Just that they could easily do so.

Well I don’t buy my knives at Walmart as most here don’t and I’m pretty sure you don’t as well so I could careless what they do.

 

[Glen Juntunen]

A lot of these American companies weasel word the connection to the USA with a variety of methods.

You can have words to the effect of "Proudly Built in the USA", which leaves room for "with parts sourced globally" and such, which are not always stated but might be inferred. (Assembled in the USA is another.)

I'm not at all against quality knives which are built abroad, (by reputable people in countries which are not our enemies), but I do find it offensive when a company tries to weasel word a patriotic theme by implying something which is not, in fact, true. Just be straight with the customers.

Like Benchmade! They claim their products are Made in the USA but use European steels on some of their knives.

 

[MarbReds]

Ha! Pretty sure that was a typo for raffles. Mike is / was big on raffles for all sorts of things.

A way to avoid Facebook’s censors rather than a typo. “Raffles” aren’t allowed.

 

[alex]

I can't speak as to the laws as I'm not well versed in that. And Im assuming what you say is accurate.

Its also unfortunate because that would mean a LOT (maybe most?......nearly all?) knives wouldn't meet the "Made In USA" standard.

That may be the law but it isn't a realistic standard to judge makers by.

Much of the steel isn't made in the US. And almost all of us use titanium not from the US.

But bars of steel and titanium sheet aren't very practical for cut and carry. The blades and liners/frames are made here. That's made in the US as far as I'm concerned.

Im going to keep saying my knives are made in the US. Im not 100% sure where the washers and a few screw types are made and frankly, I don't care. My knives are still made in the US.

As long as the steel used meets AISI/ASTM standards for composition and can be certified as such who cares where the steel is made. The composition would determine the heat treat protocols used and would ensure a good outcome to the final end product user. All makers should be truthful if asked what the country of origin for the steel is.

 

[DMG]

Like Benchmade! They claim their products are Made in the USA but use European steels on some of their knives.

Buying sheets of European steel to make a knife blade doesn't change the country of origin.