Just saw this.....Bark River is no more?

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edgelion said:
I like my support of Made in the USA to extend to the maker of that product to also support Made in the USA. If I can't find proof of that, it definitely reducess my willingness to pay my Earned in the USA money.
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As long as you don't require proof that the maker himself (or herself) was made in the USA. ☺️
 
Grimsmo from Canada does it in his shop, every single part made in house including fasteners. I don't see anything wrong with using how much usa/in house made their knife is, as a selling point. Half face blades makes it a point to use usa steel as well as all usa sourced parts, and they use that as a marketing point as well.

There's definitely a scale on how USA made things can be, some are 100% some 95% some 5% lol

On the topic of Mike Stewart, him sourcing Chinese made blanks and changing their entire shape in the USA, in no way qualifies as usa made.
 
mtice1 said:
One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is thoughts on whether Bark River Knife sales on the secondary market through BladeForums Knife Exchange will be permitted? Given many dealers have pulled them down from their websites but DLT & KSF continue to sell them it is a fair question where does Bladeforum stand on this? Certainly circulating these potentially fraudulently marked blades in the secondary market through BladeForums is also a concern.
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I don’t think it’s good for people to sell BRK on the forum unless they make a disclaimer (link this whole thread) or sell for Chinese pot metal prices. This shoots me in the foot, too. But two wrongs don’t make a right.
 
Blues said:
But, the fact is that the matter was considered small potatoes by the standards for fraud and commercial violations, so most of the product was, as I recall, simply destroyed since it was the least expensive outcome. No criminal indictments came from any of it.

Long way of saying, that as much as it matters to us...absent a large case involving massive fraud in the millions of dollars, it's unlikely that it's going to move the needle for most investigative agencies. Just the way it is.
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This is exactly what I have been trying to say throughout this thread. What seems like a big case of fraud to us is nothing to those that prosecute this type of stuff for a living. For instance the industry I am familiar with (insurance fraud) has something like <2% of referred fraud cases prosecuted. And the ones that are typically as you mentioned are bigger fish. No matter how one feels about this....it is what it is.
 
Dagoth_Blur said:
This is exactly what I have been trying to say throughout this thread. What seems like a big case of fraud to us is nothing to those that prosecute this type of stuff for a living. For instance the industry I am familiar with (insurance fraud) has something like <2% of referred fraud cases prosecuted. And the ones that are typically as you mentioned are bigger fish. No matter how one feels about this....it is what it is.
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What is your point? No matter how one feels? I think i speak for most when we say it's not a matter of feeling, Mike Stewart is a scumbag who committed crimes. Whether hes prosecuted or not has no bearing on those facts.
 
shinyedges said:
What is your point? No matter how one feels?
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Perhaps "feels" was the wrong word. My point is while this seems like a huge deal to us in the knife world (and will lead to prosecution), if you step back and look at it via the perspective of state or even larger local authorities who deal with fraud its small potatoes and has a VERY slim chance of happening.

shinyedges said:
I think i speak for most when we say it's not a matter of feeling, Mike Stewart is a scumbag who committed crimes. Whether hes prosecuted or not has no bearing on those facts.
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Ok...? Totally irrelevant to my comment. Seems like a rude reply for no reason.
 
Blues said:
As long as you don't require proof that the maker himself (or herself) was made in the USA. ☺️
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It wouldn't hurt, is all. It'd get the ball rolling in the right direction, for example, to ask why the maker's name is different from the one on the birth certificate. There may be a good reason, or a huge red flag.
 
Larrin said:
It is surprising but true. To have an unqualified “Made in USA” label on a knife it has to be all USA, even the screws. Otherwise you need a qualifier like “with domestic and imported materials.”

Note: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
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Glen Juntunen said:
Yes sir! I’m actually a knife maker myself. I understand what you’re saying, but 100% of the hardware, scales, blade steel, and even packing materials can be sourced right here in America. If an American company is going to proudly advertise their products as “Made in the USA” especially to boost their sales, then why not only use raw materials made here.
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G Glen Juntunen I stand corrected.

So I just read about it on the federal trade commission and I ’ll leave a link as it’s pretty interesting. Your right that the steel must be American made for a knife to be claimed to be made in the usa. The main reason is because it’s vital to the primary function of a knife. The key components of the product must originate from the US to be claimed made in America.

However, they do allow foreign components in made in America products but they have to have a certain minimum percentage of cost to the entire product or a certain amount of production to the the foreign component which leads me to believe screws and washers would probably be ok. And may also allow foreign wood for scales etc.

www.ftc.gov

Complying with the Made in USA Standard

Do you promote your products as “Made in the USA”? Under the law, some products must disclose U.S. content. For others, manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content need to know about the FTC’s Made in USA Labeling Rule and Enforcement Policy Statement...
www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

Again, this isn’t my focus in law.

I specialize in bird law.

And as to this topic, Mike whatsaface’s knives were not made in America!
 
edgelion said:
It wouldn't hurt, is all. It'd get the ball rolling in the right direction, for example, to ask why the maker's name is different from the one on the birth certificate. There may be a good reason, or a huge red flag.
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Please. If that's really how you feel, I have a feeling this may not be the place for you.

U.S. by birth, naturalized citizens, and Resident Aliens are all legal under the laws of the United States. If you have a problem with any of that, not only is it off topic for this thread, I think you need to take it somewhere else.
 
J. Doyle said:
Going by strictest legal definitions then, the number of "Made in USA" knives is very, very, very small.

But the legal definition isn't the practical definition and fortunately most people judge by the practical definition.
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Good point, and in regards to my previous post, how often is the ftc conducting investigations on any product much less knives? Apparently it does happen though if it happened to ka-bar.
 
mitchnola said:
Good point, and in regards to my previous post, how often is the ftc conducting investigations on any product much less knives? Apparently it does happen though if it happened to ka-bar.
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I don't remember, (if I even knew), what happened to them, but it's certainly not a priority. Most such laws are not stringently enforced absent a particular financial, ethical, safety, health or national security issue. Otherwise there wouldn't be anyone selling "Rolexes" and designer handbags on every corner in NYC. (At least when I still lived there.)
 
Glen Juntunen said:
It’s either made in the USA or it isn’t.
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Not exactly.
What if iron ore is mined in Canada and smelted in the US?
What if it is smelted in Canada and the iron is mixed with the other components of steel in the US?
What if it is made into steel in Canada then cut into blades and heat treated in the US?

The knife will still be made in the US because the materials underwent a substantial transformation in the US
 
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DMG said:
Not exactly.
What if iron ore is mined in Canada and smelted in the US?
What if it is smelted in Canada and the iron is mixed with the other components of steel in the US?
What if it is made into steel in Canada then cut into blades and heat treated in the US?

The knife will still be made in the US
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Good questions.
 
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DMG said:
Not exactly.
What if iron ore is mined in Canada and smelted in the US?
What if it is smelted in Canada and the iron is mixed with the other components of steel in the US?
What if it is made into steel in Canada then cut into blades and heat treated in the US?

The knife will still be made in the US
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I think he’s right in the strictest sense of the law. Primarily because the steel is the foundational basis of a knife so according to the law it also must be sourced in the US.

However in reality and even in the law there’s a lot of grey area for interpretation etc. Not to mention it’s a law that’s rarely enforced as Blues Blues just mentioned.

I think this is a situation where yall are both right. It’s not simply a black/white situation. It falls in the grey area that leaves a lot of room for subjectivity.
 
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