K i need sum reasons to argue with people restricting me from carrying fixed blades

DaQo'tah Forge said:
Im talking about Scouts...nothing more.
Im talking about helping to teach my two sons Scout troops.

Perhaps your Scouts in your area are different, but I can only tell you what went for me and now what goes for my kids.
Im talking about many many meetings in the FireSide room of our church were the need of a folder came up when we learned about knife safety and how to wittle and how to make some types of first aid things, but so far we have not found any need for the boys to bring fixed-blades to church with them.

Oh, we like for the guys to wear their uniform to church on that day so that right from the start their heads are on track to haveing a good meeting.

And yes, part of the Scout lesson's is to learn to plan your trip to the woods.
Your talking about taking boys between tha ages of 6 on up to about age 15-17 out on trips.

There is a big difference between a Surivial knife and a Camping knife.
As there is a big difference between camping and survival situations.

We go camping. We promote good camping, our ideal is to show the boys how to plan, prepare for, and how to have a lot of fun while camping in the woods.
Click to expand...

yeah...k...anyway have yah ever seen the equiped to survivire motto chance only favours the prepared and the equiped...so well...
Being prepared to me means that one should always be ready for a stiuation as you have also said right tools for the right jobs...
 
ken_nerve said:
Waldy, may I know which troop are you from? RI? The name Ho Rey sounds familiar for some reason.
I agree with you regarding being able to carry one 58mm SAK. Thats just ridiculous. No can opener! :D
Also, since you're 16(are you sec 4 now?) and should have learnt how to use parang, axe and knife properly by now.
Still, your cussing is unbecoming of a Scout and you sound like a spoilt brat who is angry cos someone doesnt let you play with your toys.

Back to the topic...
I dont see why you need to carry a fixed blade to regular troop meetings which from the rule(Muslim boys can come later), I'm guessing the troop meetings are held after schools on Fridays.
Maybe the Ventures might not want you guys bringing a fixed blade to school? You probably aren't gonna hang it on ur belt while you walk around school. It'll be horrible if pple find out abt your knife in your backpack and decide to do something funny with it during recess or PE lessons when you're not in class.

Also remember Singapore is highly urbanized and chopping trees is illegal. If I were you, I would first "educate" your senior ventures on knives and give them reasons why you guys should be allowed to carry 91mm SAKs or knives with a 3inch blade during regular troop meetings since you have experience with the Malaysian Rangers and should know how to prove to the senior ventures.
Next, show them the value of fixed blades at camps or during backwoodsman activities. You've got the experience, show them its usefulness.
I still don't see why you need a fixed blade at regular meetings though.
If all that fails and since the rules and regulations of your crew undermines your principles, you shouldn't be staying just for the CCA points. What does it say about your character if you do?
Click to expand...

k 1st i am a scout be that does not mean we don't cuss or wad ever, yes it may sound bad but most normal people cuss when the need arises.Next my school is just like that bad words are in most conversations. That was the easiest way to explan my problem...hence use it...even the DCs do cuss you know
Haha...RI ah?If i were to carry a fixed blade there wah lau every none scout run sia...i am from 1601 or katong 01, Pajigwad

Ho Rey ah...lets not talk about him,K?

yes i am in sec3 retained...i have learnt use of weapon besides knives from scouts and family...knives i have learnt places like the forums, myself and family.

Yes troop meetings are on wensdays and fridays...hate the 5 day week...

k for the security i got that covered padlocked and carry my bag where ever i go...

No, wad i think of them not letting me carry fixed blades is because they are not "blade-educated", city-folk as they don't use knives often...thats y i put this thread up for help...yah its not 91mm i just relised that it is a 111mm workchamp...i usally carry a 4"-5" blade not 3", its too small to do anything...
My experience with rangers is in the jungle for 5 days not in the field, it was something like a controlled survival situation, but i learnt quite a bit like rubber inner tube can be use to make bamboo pieces burn which can boil water.In scouts they teach us that bamboo should never be near a flame as it will explode...

K finally I have no choice as if i quit it will affect my CCA points, scouts is my only CCA...so that means I will suffer if i quit...but i do the best i can i just don't like things are run and carried out e.g. now they don't even let scouts bring a knife even if it is a 58mm SAK can you belive that.

Yeah i must admit that i wear my knife on my belt when in a place far away from where most teachers/parents are, rather on the other side of the school , the field or some where teachers are less likely to go. But when igo to these pubilc places like the canteen or parade square i would of coruse remove my knife and hid it in my pocket.

Yah i was planning on showing them how a fb could outdo a SAK for many task but these ppl are very hard to pursuade
Then did u hear about they boy that was stabbed by a SAK, makes matters even worse...

Yes i know what u mean by urbanised and no real need for a fb in regular meetings but i just don't see y a fb is not allowed. A fb is used as sometimes we need to cut rope, uniform thread, what ever need arises like cutting canvas or even whittle at times...but my point really is why limit oneself to a SAK when one can be using a small good fb...see when i do survival training i use these small fbs as a backup for my ontario marine raider or CS LTC. In a typical backwoodsmen session they say use SAKs, yes i noe they are unhygenic but thats what they let us use for food preparation...but we do use cheap china parangs and china axes.

I am also finding a way to show them that fbs are safer than folders. When i at first protested they said that my knives were too sharp and if u drop on someone foot..., but my sheaths are kydex and when not in use i store them in a locked "weapons" cabinet with a lock in the scout den, they said even so CANNOT AT ALL...wth...isn't a sharper knife better than a dull one?Or a folder can fold on ur fingers kinda of thing...

yah thanks anyway
 
DaQo'tah Forge said:
Im talking about Scouts...nothing more.
Im talking about helping to teach my two sons Scout troops.

Perhaps your Scouts in your area are different, but I can only tell you what went for me and now what goes for my kids.
Im talking about many many meetings in the FireSide room of our church were the need of a folder came up when we learned about knife safety and how to wittle and how to make some types of first aid things, but so far we have not found any need for the boys to bring fixed-blades to church with them.
Oh, we like for the guys to wear their uniform to church on that day so that right from the start their heads are on track to haveing a good meeting.
And yes, part of the Scout lesson's is to learn to plan your trip to the woods.


.
Click to expand...


Sir, could i just give u a reminder that i was mentioning about ventures not scouts...And u say that ur scouts are kids as in cub scouts? If i were to say u hold ur meetings in a church?I hold it in the field...
 
wadly said:
k 1st i am a scout be that does not mean we don't cuss or wad ever, yes it may sound bad but most normal people cuss when the need arises.Next my school is just like that bad words are in most conversations. That was the easiest way to explan my problem...hence use it...even the DCs do cuss you know
Haha...RI ah?If i were to carry a fixed blade there wah lau every none scout run sia...i am from 1601 or katong 01, Pajigwad
Click to expand...

Pajigwad, St. Pat's? Nice PE shirts..
After reading abt your situation, I understand your anger... I would be pissed off too. But still this is a forums and you have more time to forumlate your thoughts, the image of Singapore Scouting is at stake.

Yes troop meetings are on wensdays and fridays...hate the 5 day week...
Click to expand...
I think its a stupid too.

k for the security i got that covered padlocked and carry my bag where ever i go...
Click to expand...
Good to know you've got that covered, but its a risk that the senior ventures might be trying to avoid.

No, wad i think of them not letting me carry fixed blades is because they are not "blade-educated", city-folk as they don't use knives often...thats y i put this thread up for help...yah its not 91mm i just relised that it is a 111mm workchamp...i usally carry a 4"-5" blade not 3", its too small to do anything...
My experience with rangers is in the jungle for 5 days not in the field, it was something like a controlled survival situation, but i learnt quite a bit like rubber inner tube can be use to make bamboo pieces burn which can boil water.In scouts they teach us that bamboo should never be near a flame as it will explode...
Click to expand...
That probably has to do with it too. But you saying 3" blades are too small to do anything? :eek:
Btw, Scouting is not all about survival and outdoor stuff. Nature is just one of the 7 pillars of Scouting.

Yah i was planning on showing them how a fb could outdo a SAK for many task but these ppl are very hard to pursuade
Then did u hear about they boy that was stabbed by a SAK, makes matters even worse...
Click to expand...
Already having problems with SAKs you still want to bring a fixed blade? I must say again, you are in school.

Yes i know what u mean by urbanised and no real need for a fb in regular meetings but i just don't see y a fb is not allowed. A fb is used as sometimes we need to cut rope, uniform thread, what ever need arises like cutting canvas or even whittle at times...but my point really is why limit oneself to a SAK when one can be using a small good fb...see when i do survival training i use these small fbs as a backup for my ontario marine raider or CS LTC. In a typical backwoodsmen session they say use SAKs, yes i noe they are unhygenic but thats what they let us use for food preparation...but we do use cheap china parangs and china axes.
Click to expand...
You whittle and cut uniform thread with a 4" blade? Just convince your senior ventures to let you use fb during backwoodsman or camps. Regular meetings just suck it up abit.

I am also finding a way to show them that fbs are safer than folders. When i at first protested they said that my knives were too sharp and if u drop on someone foot..., but my sheaths are kydex and when not in use i store them in a locked "weapons" cabinet with a lock in the scout den, they said even so CANNOT AT ALL...wth...isn't a sharper knife better than a dull one?Or a folder can fold on ur fingers kinda of thing...
Click to expand...
They call it a "weapons" cabinet? What kind of scouts are they? If what you say is true, then I really think you should bring it up to higher authorities(VSL). Send the senior ventures for "re-education".
 
Wadly, just for your info...

In the US, there are three main divisions of the Scout program. Cub Scouts runs from age 7 or so to 11. Boy Scouts, 11-18. Venture/Explorer, usually from 15 to 18, while the Scout is still an active Boy Scout. So, when people take about Scouts and you talk Venture, you're talking the same language, just a slightly different accent. :) Here, a Venture Scout or Explorer Scout is just an older Boy Scout. (Of course, they also allow females in the Explorer program now, but I digress...)

That said. I wouldn't try to convince them of carrying a fixed blade until you've convinced them of the worth of a good folder. A SAK Classic's a nice knife, but it has nothing on the Soldier, and even less on a Trailmaster. When you have it so you can carry a good folder freely, then work on a fixed blade.

When I was active, both as a Scout and a leader, a knife was a standard part of the uniform. Scout knife in pocket, multitool on belt. On camp trips, my Western often went along for the ride. In fact, when we did uniform inspections, not having the Scout knife on you was a black mark.

As for the meetings, mine were usually held in the school's multipurpose room, but we held outdoors as much as we could. Have to make do with what you have.
 
Sword and Shield said:
As for the meetings, mine were usually held in the school's multipurpose room,
Click to expand...

That sounds good. Here we use the church Fireside room due it it being here and empty anyway, and it also is built to look like a log cabin so it just seems very natural to think the scouts would like it too.

Due to the problem with Scouts and the gay thing,,,,I believe that sooner or later the Scouts will have to change and become a part of the offical church's outreach to children. I know of no other way the Scouts can be saved from the evil men planning against them.
 
ken_nerve said:
You whittle and cut uniform thread with a 4" blade? Just convince your senior ventures to let you use fb during backwoodsman or camps. Regular meetings just suck it up abit.
They call it a "weapons" cabinet? What kind of scouts are they? If what you say is true, then I really think you should bring it up to higher authorities(VSL). Send the senior ventures for "re-education".
Click to expand...
K i understand wad u mean but u wan me to suck up to them, nah i'm not the suck up type...nvm...i'll bring a folder...

the "weapons cabinet" is just some cheap office docment cabinet with a bar across where we put our parang, shovels, axes or even an old jap katana and all those inanimate weapons which can kill if the cabinet is open!!This cabinet is property of the school where we store these stuff...funny they don't store kero...nah acutally no problem carrying SAK thats easy to argue with, fbs are harder...where u from anyway?
 
Sword and Shield said:
Wadly, just for your info...

In the US, there are three main divisions of the Scout program. Cub Scouts runs from age 7 or so to 11. Boy Scouts, 11-18. Venture/Explorer, usually from 15 to 18, while the Scout is still an active Boy Scout. So, when people take about Scouts and you talk Venture, you're talking the same language, just a slightly different accent. :) Here, a Venture Scout or Explorer Scout is just an older Boy Scout. (Of course, they also allow females in the Explorer program now, but I digress...)

That said. I wouldn't try to convince them of carrying a fixed blade until you've convinced them of the worth of a good folder. A SAK Classic's a nice knife, but it has nothing on the Soldier, and even less on a Trailmaster. When you have it so you can carry a good folder freely, then work on a fixed blade.

When I was active, both as a Scout and a leader, a knife was a standard part of the uniform. Scout knife in pocket, multitool on belt. On camp trips, my Western often went along for the ride. In fact, when we did uniform inspections, not having the Scout knife on you was a black mark.

As for the meetings, mine were usually held in the school's multipurpose room, but we held outdoors as much as we could. Have to make do with what you have.
Click to expand...

heck, i will just carry a one hand trailmaster and an opinel...then after a while fb agian...
 
wadly said:
K i understand wad u mean but u wan me to suck up to them, nah i'm not the suck up type...nvm...i'll bring a folder...

the "weapons cabinet" is just some cheap office docment cabinet with a bar across where we put our parang, shovels, axes or even an old jap katana and all those inanimate weapons which can kill if the cabinet is open!!This cabinet is property of the school where we store these stuff...funny they don't store kero...nah acutally no problem carrying SAK thats easy to argue with, fbs are harder...where u from anyway?
Click to expand...

I said suck it up, not suck up. You want to stay in the venture crew, so you dont have much choice if you can't influence them to change the rules about knives and have to tolerate.

I'm from the St. Andrew's Scout Group. Been with them for 8 yrs now.
 
Sounds like a great opportunity to challenge yourself. If they're forbidding you to carry fixed blades, they're forcing you out of your normal comfort zone, which can be a good thing. It is an opportunity to learn how to accomplish important tasks with less than optimal tools. You may surprise yourself with what you can do, even with a SAK Classic.
 
F.Y.I.: Just looked at the rules for the International Camporee at Dorchester, Ontario this weekend. Only specific rule on knives : "No Rambo knives."

Of course, all participants are expected to follow the Scout Law.

They enforce rules strictly -- no reluctance to send entire Troops home in the middle of the night for noise-making, for example. (To which I say, "Good.")
 
I can understand not allowing United Cutlery junk made from 420J2. I wonder what they'd do if someone tried to bring a Dark Ops knife. :D

Actually, sending Scoutmasters to search for Dark Ops knives could become the 21st Century version of sending Scouts "snipe hunting" or to get a "left-handed smoke shifter" or "pretzel straightener." :D
 
Benjamin Liu said:
I can understand not allowing United Cutlery junk made from 420J2. I wonder what they'd do if someone tried to bring a Dark Ops knife. :D

Actually, sending Scoutmasters to search for Dark Ops knives could become the 21st Century version of sending Scouts "snipe hunting" or to get a "left-handed smoke shifter" or "pretzel straightener." :D
Click to expand...

Good idea.

"Go get me a Dark Ops knife and don't come back until you've found one... and I mean a REAL one. Anyone who brings me an painted Extrema Ratio gets kicked out of the group. GO!"
 
Hey... I made a left-handed smokeshifter once! It can be done! :)

All you need are a few pieces of ductwork from that abandoned barn over the hill... ;)
 
When I go backpacking I carry a Kabar, I find it far more useful than the locking SAK I carry for cutting tent stakes, cutting booby trap stakes and sticks to roast fish with, and any kind of food prep work. The SAK is useful for its multitools, opening bags and cutting twine and the like.

It doesn't matter what you teach the scouts, 90 percent of them will never go camping again after they leave, and those who do learned their skills from relatives or friends. The BSA in urban areas exists to properly mold obedient information workers of the future.
 
I could easily take issue with that, Ghost... but I choose not to do so.

Sure, 90% will never go camping again after 18. But what of that 10%?
 
Once my oldest son didn't want to go with the rest of the Scouts on a visit to a place where the retarded are sent to work on art projects.

My son said that going to look at retarded people was not part of Scouts, that having to see retarded people was not what he signed up for when he joined Scouts, and that as he is not retarded, it was not something he should be forced to deal with.

I opened his Scouting book and read to him some things we had talked about before, about the things we both hoped he would get out of being a Scout.

And we found that in a very real way, Scouting has nothing at all to do with the outdoors, or camping in the woods or anything like that stuff.

Being a Scout is a means to reach the young man's real goals and that to become trustworthy,Loyal,Helpfull,Friendly,Courteous, etc,etc,etc...

Being a Scout, (any type of Scout) is about learing how to get from the person you are now, to the person you seek to become.
 
DaQo'tah Forge, you may be Klingon, but that doesn't give you the right to call them "retarded people".
 
DonTomas,

In English, "Retarded" simply means one who is behind in development. That could be mentally, as the term is normally used, or physically. Now, I freely admit that it's not the kindest term, but it is accurate. It wasn't used in a derogatory way, at least not in a hurtful way, so I chalk it to youthful inexperience on the part of DQ's son.

The Scouting experience can be an immensely valuable one. I've camped in 16 states and Canada, worked with Scouts from 26 nations and all 50 states, and learned things that 99% of the human race isn't familiar with. Through the Scouting-based co-ed fraternity I am a member of (Alpha Phi Omega), I've met some really good friends, including my best friend. Scouting is not for everyone, nor is it meant to be. However, if a Scout wants to, there are so many opportunities to be had.

To put in some knife content, the Scouts were the force that got me interested in knife collecting. I headed the Council Scout Museum for three years, and built their Scout knife collection into one of the better ones in the state. My personal collection is better, as I have more money to spend, but it got me started.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top