KABAR failure

I 'm with ya man!

They need to learn their ABCs

A squared + B squared = C squared
Alcohol + Becker = Chop


O/H - Oscar Had
A/H - A Heap
O/A - Of Apples


I once tried to pick up a girl in a bar, by telling her Isosceles was the Greek God of Triangles.
She said "Is that right?"
I said no, Scalene,

We left separately.
 
That belongs in a bad joke thread elsewhere in the forum, well done :D
 
I agree that whacking a Kabar with what amounts to a small baseball bat into oak prolly isn't the best idea? However regardless of design that's a large chunk of steel. Quality steel that Kabar claims is heat treated properly etc. I'll admit I've split a few small logs with my Kabar. Never broke it. Could it be technique? As in pushing down on the handle and say where the blade meets the handle the wood is harder. Like a knot etc. Then you whack the blade further down creating a leverage situation? Sorry for the crappy explanation/example. But I think you all know what I'm getting at?
 
LV I love your jokes man!

To be perfectly honest here I truly wonder why batoning is so necessary. Yes, some knives sure as hell can do it, some can't but really, why not just chuck the whole log in the fire? If I'm at home or camp and said log needs to be smaller, then yes I'll cut it. With an axe. However, if I'm genuinely in a survival situation, imma saving the energy and just plonking that fat bugger straight in the fire. If it's HUGE, then just the end.

A native American tribe of which I can't remember the name of right now used to use this technique where they would put the ends of four logs in a fire. The logs would make a cross shape. They would save energy by not cutting the wood which saved wear on their tools and if they heard a neighboring tribe encroaching, they would pull the logs out and the fire would extinguish almost immediately. Not sure where I was going with this. Oh yeah. Saving energy and wear on your tools. Won't big logs put your fire out? Not if they're brought up to combustion temperature first. Sit em by the fire and when they're starting to smoke, they're ready to burn baby!
 
That would be an approximate volume of 3*3.14*16=150.72 cubic inches/1,728 cubic inches per cubic foot=8.6% of a cubic foot. Depending on the moisture content, oak weighs from 44 to 63 lbs. per cubic foot, so lets say it was in the middle at around 53.5 lbs./foot. That would mean that you were beating on your knife with a 4 & 1/2 lbs. club. Could you imagine hitting your others tools with such a thing? Beating on your drills, handsaws; on your lap tops or telephones; hitting your car or lawnmower. The bottom line is that few tools would survive that unless they had been specifically designed for such abuse.

This is what you were trying to do with your knife:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAA5mu9FQDQ

n2s


If you struck the knife at one mph? Is it 1/2 m x V squared?

MORAs baton and survive, so there must be other variables besides personal preference, as repeatedly discussed over and over and over in other threads year after year. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1313731-Batoning?p=15088694#post15088694

Electric drill? Laptops? Lemon pudding? Cherry pie? Reasoning by false analogy? :D I sure try cutting with my laptop. Only have to strop to bring it back to hair-poppin' edge. Much easier to keep it sharp than my car.
 
All, I think enough has been posted. Certainly this incident has been over analyzed.

I certainly abused and broke the KABAR. However, before I went to the machete to finish cutting the kindling, I batoned a small 4" blade handmade rat tail tang knife made from a file into the same piece of oak with the same baton. It survived with no damage. I switched to the machete because it was longer and easier to baton.

I would have assumed the KABAR would have been stronger than the small handmade knife.
 
sometimes, "stuff" happens.
yes, what you were doing is outside their concept of "acceptable use", but a brand new knife still shouldn't have snapped like that.
there may have been a hidden flaw in the steel of the knife that would have allowed it to let go under "normal" use as well.
did you actually contact kabar to see if they would warranty it?
so far as I know, only 1 account in this subforum actually works for kabar - and he hasn't posted.
 
70 years of history. More battles than any since WWII. Millions of miles of travel. Many enemy deaths. Then one yahoo beats it into pieces and calls it faulty.
 
Ya. :(

Imagine how the makers of the Brown Bess felt when someone wanted to improve it. 116 years of service. More battles than you can count. Built the Empire. Then a yahoo comes along with the percussion cap and Bess has to be "improved." How can you improve on perfection? Sad. Next thing, they'll want to rifle the barrel. :o
 
There's nothing wrong with Brown Bess, she can still drop a man at 50 yards. So higher rate of fire shows up, Bess can still put down something for dinner. Take a club to Bess though and she's sure to break.
 
There's nothing wrong with Brown Bess, she can still drop a man at 50 yards. So higher rate of fire shows up, Bess can still put down something for dinner. Take a club to Bess though and she's sure to break.

Or use Bess as a club...
 
OK, has anyone here successfully attached their KA-BAR to the end of their Brown Bess musket yet? If so will the tang hold up? Lets do the math and see. I think that about covers the breadth of this thread now.:rolleyes:
 
70 years of history. More battles than any since WWII. Millions of miles of travel. Many enemy deaths. Then one yahoo beats it into pieces and calls it faulty.

I just gotta say - there's not been anything built yet that a soldier/sailor/marine/airman couldn't break.

Chances are pretty good that there were a lot of Kabar/Ontario/Camillus/etc casualties not only during those battles but in training and in garrison and in transit.

(My sailors broke stuff all the time. It's part of what they do.)
 
OK, has anyone here successfully attached their KA-BAR to the end of their Brown Bess musket yet? If so will the tang hold up? Lets do the math and see. I think that about covers the breadth of this thread now.:rolleyes:

Can't seem to find the socket version of the MK II. When I do, I'll report back. :thumbup:
 
I just gotta say - there's not been anything built yet that a soldier/sailor/marine/airman couldn't break.

Chances are pretty good that there were a lot of Kabar/Ontario/Camillus/etc casualties not only during those battles but in training and in garrison and in transit.

(My sailors broke stuff all the time. It's part of what they do.)
You're absolutely right. The point is when you intentionally beat on something, it'll break. There are knives now made to handle the rigors of batoning for those who choose not to pack an ax. Myself, I would only baton if the wood was absolutely soaked and no axe was available, but I make a point of having my small Estwing hatchet handy. Even then I only remember one time where wood was too wet to light up, so I split a couple of branches and got it going. If I carried a KaBar and for some reason didn't have a hatchet with me, I would baton with it if necessary. If it broke, well the rattail tang wasn't intended for that. Actually I'd be sure to use as soft of wood as I could find and then only use as much force as neccesary. That doesn't guarentee that the KaBar won't break, but usually when you respect the equipment it generally holds up.
 
So, one other thing I don't think had been mentioned yet, is that there is the possibility that the knife had an incorrect heat treat.

Now, I'm still not saying this knife was ever designed for this type of work, however, on this very forum we have seen the exact same model survive years of similar use before (or rather, if) they broke. I know for instance that moose (one of the mods here) broke one after three seasons of splitting kindling for his house (they had a wood burning stove). The knife was used hard, and did eventually break (the design is still not good for this), but his copy and others have taken lots more abuse.

So, again, not saying this knife was meant for this type of work. Just saying that a bad heat treat could have exacerbated the problem. I mean, you can find examples of many knives designed for batoning that have failed due to inclusions, bad ht, etc (Becker, esee, tops, buck, etc).

Anyway, carry on. Just wanted to mention that.
 
** EDITING**
Here is an idea of what you could do with her still if you feel so inclined?? I would even do this for you for free if you want to go this route. A minibar. :cool:
This isn't my project or knife, but when I saw this thread, I recalled seeing this a while back. Thought I would share.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ife-made-from-broken-Ka-Bar-USMC-Combat-knife
sl001_zpsmukt39cm.jpg

sl005-1_zpsstclzugf.jpg


Yep, When they break, they always break there. How large was the oak log?

The kabar USMC is a great knife, with an excellent history. However, if you plan on doing lots of batoning, you may want to consider a full width/full length tang knife (Like the Becker line) for use in the future.

Good luck with the warranty work, I'm not quite sure what will happen with it, but good luck none-the-less :).
This. The Mark I combat knife design is really not made for batoning with. Definitely better suited for a camp edc, dressing animals, tactical applications, carving, slashing, and stabbing. It makes a good hunting knife, but isn't perfect for bushcraft. It needs a wider tang. I actually wish Kabar would make a version of the 1217 with a tang twice as wide for more money. Maybe out of Damascus?? I would definitely buy one. If you are planning on batoning something, buy a Cattaraugus Quartermaster 225Q (A WW2 era knife that is an absolute tank of a knife made from tool steel).. or a Becker. A restored/fixed up quartermaster 225Q will hold up to anything you throw at it. They are the strongest, most underrated knives... You can pick one up for 30-50$. I bought mine for cheaper than that. Just FYI. Some ideas.
1008-115102_zpsed375f9f.jpg

1008-182825_zpsd1d66c1f.jpg

*Cattaraugus Quartermaster 225Q before restoration with navel jelly exfoliated rust pitting>K1 Kerosene.
S7300569_zps0ba7e3b9.jpg

*Cattaraugus Quartermaster 225Q after a regrind>Handle Glued>Handle Sno Sealed.. ( before 2000grit wet/dry and flitz polishing. )
 
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I would love to find a 225Q in the $30-50 range that did not look like it had been run over by a landing craft and left in the surf for 70 years...
 
I would love to find a 225Q in the $30-50 range that did not look like it had been run over by a landing craft and left in the surf for 70 years...
1066Vik, I really owe you one. If you/i find a decent 225Q, I will restore it for you and send it back if you would like... I will keep my eye out for a nice one that I can fix up if you are interested.. If I find a good deal on one that is saveable, I will snatch it up.

I use these products:
**Loctite Naval Jelly: 6-10$This is acidic, and will loosen up the hardened black oxides so you can better remove them with abrasives; a pink jelly that you use in controlled applications with an abrasive. It is essentially a mild/medium strength Phosphoric acid mixture. Apply with a Q-tip or straw to Pits in knife or entire blade and let sit until the outsides of the pink gel starts to turn a light translucent brown (about ten minutes) Then use an abrasive such as metal finish pad or steel wool to buff at the oxides. Rinse with warm water and dry with paper towel, then buff with steel wool or metal finish pad (Wet/Dry paper is the best for this). Repeat until you get desired result, It works to loosen oxides. After your rinse with water, wipe down with K1 Kerosene.

**A brass gun cleaning specialties brush (1-3$, available at a gun specialties/reloading store or cheaper than dirt. Do not use this as an abrasive with Phosphoric acid products (Navel Jelly or Milder and less effective CLR), or whilst you apply them, as the acid will dissolve the brass onto the steel and leave a yellowish anodized look. Brush over red or black oxides with gentle to medium pressure to remove them before you apply acids. This is really effecting for pitting or getting the oxides out of the stamps of blades. Will also remove hardened black oxides from "pits" in blades) This is HARDER than the black/red oxides (rust), but softer than the steel itself, which means it will remove oxides but wont scratch the steel itself(black and red patina and exfoliate pits) For deeper pitting, use a harder steel gun brush - But keep in mind you will need to use a Wet/Dry paper for final refinish on the blade.
**Metal Finishing pad: (1-3$ You use this as a heavy abrasive, to buff out the larger scratches and imperfections such as "pits" created from long exposure to oxides on the steel, with enough elbow grease you can buff out anything with this. It is about four times as abrasive as steel wool, and just as versatile, also will not oxidize like steel wool)
**Black Sandpaper in 600grit wet/dry, and 2000grit wet/dry: (5-12$ You use the 600grit wet/dry for medium polish with grain, and 2000grit wet/dry for satin/mirror polish with Flitz Metal polish)
**K1 Kerosene (relatively cheap, and available at your local gas station. This works as an excellent penetrant. You use this to clean knives after using anything acidic; such as naval jelly, clr ect... Keep in mind that K1 Kerosene is a "petrollium distillate". Petrollium distillates will darken leather and wood if applied to them, so demonstrate proper care when applying them to knives/guns with wood parts. I keep a mason jar of K1 Kerosene at all times. It works great and is cheap. If you are very worried about the wood on your firearm/knife, use a german gun cleaning solvent called Ballistol. Ballistol is another excellent penetrant that is good for both wood and steel on guns and knives and safe to use on both. What I mean by penetrant for those who read this that do not know or aren't as familiar is that it penetrates into the acid (Which soap and water does not quite do) and prevents it from oxidizing or eating away at the metal, and leaves the metal neutral after a couple wipe downs. You do this after you treat with any phosphoric acids or acidic products in restorations... Ballistol is 8-10$ a can and found at **some gun specialties stores)
**SNO-SEAL (For all leather restoration needs. A beeswax product that will make old dried and cracked up leather new and pliable again. Contains silicon, I have noticed it will darken leather just a bit like Rem Oil, well worth the tie and money. Will swell up dried and cracked stacked leather washers on a hidden tang knife as well. Safe for metal, unlike most leather conditioning products. Apply product with a rag liberally, and heat with a blow drier on medium-low heat. One technique I use is to spread gobs of sno seal onto the handle, wrap with aluminum foil as to keep the melted wax in, and leave the blow drier blowing onto the foil for 10-15 minutes on low-medium heat and then turn off the drier and let the wax and knife cool under the foil. This will work in as much product as possible, may take a couple applications)
**Rem Oil gun cleaner (6-8$ for a large spray can at most everywhere. Rem Oil is a gun cleaner and oil. Pretty nice stuff. It is a petrollium distillate, so use caution with wood FYI. Rem Oil is a dry feeling oil, that is not sticky or wet feeling to the touch. It does however have a sticky quality to it; it gathers lint like no other oil does. Some folks hate this about Rem Oil and to those that want an oil that does not collect lint Go with Hoppes Weathergaurd, which is better than Rem Oil (gander mountain, bass pro, specialties stores) Just apply to steel and wipe with rag/paper towel)
**00,01 Steel Wool (This will let you get into the hard to reach places of a knife; liner, frame, lock mechanisms ect and is cheap and available just about everywhere)
Here is some more of my work:
I made the handle of this out of aluminum breaker bars and 3/16" pivot screws. Old German Okapi.
LegitimuscollinsmacheteWWIIBF022_zpsf00e0e99.jpg
(Unfinished Okapi Ratchet Knife)
LegitimuscollinsmacheteWWIIBF017_zps6f32e72a.jpg
(Unfinished Okapi Ratchet Knife)
SAM_0792_zps106a1ac4.jpg
(Rehandled and Finished Okapi Ratchet Knife; used metal finishing pad, steel wool, Rem Oil on blade)
SAM_0793_zpsf99f0605.jpg
(Rehandled and Finished Okapi Ratchet Knife) Made new handle from 3 aluminum breaker bars with 3/16" pivot screws.
SAM_0796_zps51f3e1d2.jpg
(Rehandled and Finished Okapi Ratchet Knife)
 
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