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KABAR failure
- Thread starter ScottK
- Start date
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- Oct 5, 2013
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- 302
thanks. i for one appreciate your efforts. i try to leave the site cleaner than i found it too. just too bad so many others don't care.
Haha, okay. It wasn't me who made that small kabar knife, but I am positive I could make one just like it easily. Hey feel free to just shoot me a message. I have a belt sander, 2000grit wet dry, files, saws, and a drill. I wouldn't mind a project.
I can make just about anything. Last project I was working on was a push knife made from a broken Nicholson wood file. Never got a chance to belt sand the bevels in. Need to go to the metal recycling place for some scrap brass or something to cut, or drill and ball peen hammer and buff for a handle. -ZemapeliScott K...
You could tap the pommel pin - and use a stripped screw drill bit to remove it from the pommel.. Then firstly TIG, then secondly lay a thick and thorough MIG weld with conviction on all four sides of the tang and use a fine bastard file and a belt sander to take off the excess welds like folks do on cars... like automotive body work.. All I have access to is acetylene sadly otherwise I would fix it for you... Maybe re-heat treat it after wards with some clay on the blade and give it a nice hamon. It is after all 1095 CVM which is high carbon.
If you knew someone with a metal shop you could have that thing fixed pretty easily. Then just use something like stripper, K1 Kerosene or CLR to remove the coating and Flitz and 2000grit the blade and make it satin?? IDK if you would want to re heat treat... Just ideas. I would fix it or make something out of it if I were you. Sucks that it broke. I doubt the warranty will go though if you battoned with it.. If not, might as well make something useable out of it or fix it.
You could tap the pommel pin - and use a stripped screw drill bit to remove it from the pommel.. Then firstly TIG, then secondly lay a thick and thorough MIG weld with conviction on all four sides of the tang and use a fine bastard file and a belt sander to take off the excess welds like folks do on cars... like automotive body work.. All I have access to is acetylene sadly otherwise I would fix it for you... Maybe re-heat treat it after wards with some clay on the blade and give it a nice hamon. It is after all 1095 CVM which is high carbon.
If you knew someone with a metal shop you could have that thing fixed pretty easily. Then just use something like stripper, K1 Kerosene or CLR to remove the coating and Flitz and 2000grit the blade and make it satin?? IDK if you would want to re heat treat... Just ideas. I would fix it or make something out of it if I were you. Sucks that it broke. I doubt the warranty will go though if you battoned with it.. If not, might as well make something useable out of it or fix it.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,113
This is sad to see. I've had Kabars break on me exactly as yours did. It would be great if the knife could handle some of these tasks. The kabar is by far my favorite knife design but because I have had a couple of break I always hesitate to take one with me when camping. I would love to see Kabar extend the tang width and put a big ole radius at the junction.
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Kabars are WW2 history in your hand. Even a new one is made to the old specs. Kabars (and others of the MK 2 pattern) were made sturdy enough to deal with likely wartime tasks for the duration of the conflict, but no one expected them to last forever. Also, keep in mind that if one broke in use back then, a guy could get another without difficulty or expense.
The real brute of a knife was the Cattaraugus 225Q and its Case equivalent (designation escapes me). Those were meant to pry open wooden boxes and hammer them shut again with the pommel.
EDIT: My bad, for perpetuating a myth or urban legend. The Q in the designation for the Cattaraugus 225Q and Case 337Q indeed stands for Quartermaster, the department that ordered them. But it appears they weren't intended for QM personnel to open crates and hammer nails, though well capable of it. For more of the story, see this thread from about three years ago:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-WWII-fighting-knives?p=11002653#post11002653
But they are brutes.
The real brute of a knife was the Cattaraugus 225Q and its Case equivalent (designation escapes me). Those were meant to pry open wooden boxes and hammer them shut again with the pommel.
EDIT: My bad, for perpetuating a myth or urban legend. The Q in the designation for the Cattaraugus 225Q and Case 337Q indeed stands for Quartermaster, the department that ordered them. But it appears they weren't intended for QM personnel to open crates and hammer nails, though well capable of it. For more of the story, see this thread from about three years ago:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-WWII-fighting-knives?p=11002653#post11002653
But they are brutes.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
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- 6,167
Case 337-6Q was case's equivalent to the Catt 225Q.
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- Jun 16, 2003
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- 20,205
Who?
(And I thought we learned that flesh is stronger than steel.
)
(And I thought we learned that flesh is stronger than steel.
)
Ausseknifeknut
BANNED
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- Oct 26, 2013
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So what happened RE you sending it back for replacement?
Shoot, after seeing the "mini-bar", I'd go that route and just buy a new blade...
However, it's worth a shot, right? KA-BAR has good customer service.
Ausseknifeknut
BANNED
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I haz beckers , 'nuff said really. I do own several k bars though , including a leather handle and leather sheath model , and a kraton handle and leather sheath CE model, several TDIs , a parangatang , a mule folder , a heavy Bowie , probly a cpl others. Btw I have the Ontario versions of the quartermaster, the presentation grade one and the spec plus one.
1、why always breaking occured on the junctions of blade and tang ?
2、do you guys really think that is PERFECT design , even on fighting knife ?
3、is it hard to do improvment on design ?
I think i can answer the 3 Q here:
1、cause there is stress concetrations on conjuction that has breaking inclination.
2、I think that it is not a perfect design , but 1217 is a great tool .
3、It is not hard to do an improment that leaving radius conjuntion, cause other brands do that yet on there production .
2、do you guys really think that is PERFECT design , even on fighting knife ?
3、is it hard to do improvment on design ?
I think i can answer the 3 Q here:
1、cause there is stress concetrations on conjuction that has breaking inclination.
2、I think that it is not a perfect design , but 1217 is a great tool .
3、It is not hard to do an improment that leaving radius conjuntion, cause other brands do that yet on there production .
1066vik
Gold Member
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- Nov 28, 2009
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- 21,297
the 2 blades you use as your examples are made from thicker steel than the 1217 -- 5/16" for the CS and 1/4" for the OKC.
the percentage of blades that break is extremely low.
nothing is perfect -- but this must be a good design, since the US Mil contracted to have it built by several companies over the past 7 decades, and other countries have copied the design. Plus - use the knife for the tasks it was designed for and the odds of breakage go down even more.
other brands also have breakage -- but do not get as much press about it because they're not as iconic as Kabar.
you might want to look up some of the breakage reports on the CS Leatherneck, since it's the closest thing they make to the 1217.
the percentage of blades that break is extremely low.
nothing is perfect -- but this must be a good design, since the US Mil contracted to have it built by several companies over the past 7 decades, and other countries have copied the design. Plus - use the knife for the tasks it was designed for and the odds of breakage go down even more.
other brands also have breakage -- but do not get as much press about it because they're not as iconic as Kabar.
you might want to look up some of the breakage reports on the CS Leatherneck, since it's the closest thing they make to the 1217.
reasonable , man.
Leaving right corner on conjunction of blade and tang is a good design ?
right corner on conjunction of blade and tang that is similar to V notch in compact tests.
so right corner on conjunction of blade and tang where has the weak point that easily break than other parts of blade.
i am here not talk thickness of blades , man.
and i really wish KABAR will make it change , and i will happly buy more.
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Take a look at the specs. The corners are not right angles. While not large, the designed radius of the tang/blade junction is 1/32", more than enough radius to handle stresses for the KNIFE'S DESIGNED PURPOSE.
People need to quit denigrating the 1219C2/USN MK2 FIGHTING/UTILITY knife because it does not survive being pounded on like it was a splitting wedge or treat it like a pry bar. Look at the design name - FIGHTING/UTILITY. The name does NOT say FIGHTING/PRY BAR or FIGHTING/SPLITTING WEDGE.
Fighting knives are TYPICALLY light to be quick in hand-to-hand combat and sentry elimination. Utility knives are designed to perform general cutting tasks.
These knives were not intended to be or designed to be used as pry bars or wedges by the acceptance committee. Did they expected that they would be improperly used? You bet they did. After all, the acceptance committee were Marines. They knew what Marines would do - use them in whatever manner the needed to. If a knife broke doing something other than kill a human or cutting "normal" stuff, well, that's why they had over 3 MILLION of them made.
If someone uses a tool in a manner in which the tool was NOT DESIGNED to be used for and then the tool breaks, the break is NOT a result of a "design flaw", it is the result of exceeding the design limits.
If someone breaks a 1217 by batoning, wedging, prying or chiseling, too bad. Suck it up, buttercup and go buy another one. Just like the Marines and Navy did with the 1219C2/USN MK2 of WW2.
Oh, by the way.... Kabar DID improve on the design - heftier construction, stronger pommel construction, non-rotting Kraton handles, 3 sheath options.
2 models - one was the Kabar NextGen, model 1221. Canceled due to lackluster sales. No one wanted the "better" knife. The other is the Kabar D2 Extreme, model 1281. Still available. The NextGen in D2 steel. Not a fast seller, despite being "a better design with a really good not-1095 steel" that every one bitching about the 1219C2 design says they want.
People need to quit denigrating the 1219C2/USN MK2 FIGHTING/UTILITY knife because it does not survive being pounded on like it was a splitting wedge or treat it like a pry bar. Look at the design name - FIGHTING/UTILITY. The name does NOT say FIGHTING/PRY BAR or FIGHTING/SPLITTING WEDGE.
Fighting knives are TYPICALLY light to be quick in hand-to-hand combat and sentry elimination. Utility knives are designed to perform general cutting tasks.
These knives were not intended to be or designed to be used as pry bars or wedges by the acceptance committee. Did they expected that they would be improperly used? You bet they did. After all, the acceptance committee were Marines. They knew what Marines would do - use them in whatever manner the needed to. If a knife broke doing something other than kill a human or cutting "normal" stuff, well, that's why they had over 3 MILLION of them made.
If someone uses a tool in a manner in which the tool was NOT DESIGNED to be used for and then the tool breaks, the break is NOT a result of a "design flaw", it is the result of exceeding the design limits.
If someone breaks a 1217 by batoning, wedging, prying or chiseling, too bad. Suck it up, buttercup and go buy another one. Just like the Marines and Navy did with the 1219C2/USN MK2 of WW2.
Oh, by the way.... Kabar DID improve on the design - heftier construction, stronger pommel construction, non-rotting Kraton handles, 3 sheath options.
2 models - one was the Kabar NextGen, model 1221. Canceled due to lackluster sales. No one wanted the "better" knife. The other is the Kabar D2 Extreme, model 1281. Still available. The NextGen in D2 steel. Not a fast seller, despite being "a better design with a really good not-1095 steel" that every one bitching about the 1219C2 design says they want.
"the designed radius of the tang/blade junction is 1/32", more than enough radius to handle stresses for the KNIFE'S DESIGNED PURPOSE."
if Kabar change it into lager junction , like what CS 、Otario、Busse did on their hiden tang knives , make 1217 distinctive heavier ? and ruin it as a good fighting knife ?
and do you think 1217 is a pure bood fighter ?
i do not think so.there are lots of good degger more suit to close fight .
utility knife only for cutting ?
i do not think so .
I am not a guy who do baton knife on huge log , and i really know the knife limitation , and knife is not a mace .
I have some Kabar hiden tang knives for years , and really like them , very good.
just wish Kabar can do better.
up-grade the junction is not a big pro for the company , just add more cents on costs.
if Kabar change it into lager junction , like what CS 、Otario、Busse did on their hiden tang knives , make 1217 distinctive heavier ? and ruin it as a good fighting knife ?
and do you think 1217 is a pure bood fighter ?
i do not think so.there are lots of good degger more suit to close fight .
utility knife only for cutting ?
i do not think so .
I am not a guy who do baton knife on huge log , and i really know the knife limitation , and knife is not a mace .
I have some Kabar hiden tang knives for years , and really like them , very good.
just wish Kabar can do better.
up-grade the junction is not a big pro for the company , just add more cents on costs.
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