Kali done with Khukri's

James Green Dragon said:
I'm with you Siga Siga - Trolls suck. Somehow my limited involvement in this thread has earned me bad rep points and the nickname "fredrico"...?

Go figure :confused: :D


You do realize that's probably because of your second post here where you thought Federico had posted something that Sirupate had written. ;)
 
Sirupate said:
I teach Kukri both in my Martial System and to the British forces,

Simon I find it unlikely that the armed forces rely on non-Gurkha civilians such as yourself to come in and train their people in kukhri combat, and I wish to check this claim. Could you please supply contact details for someone who is able to confirm on behalf of the armed forces that you are used to help train their people.

From your website it appears that you learned some principles of combat and about the kukhri from "boarding school". I also find this claim unlikely, as public schools are not normally places where behaviour condoning knife combatives culture is encouraged. Which public school did you attend (I would like to cross-check this too).

Thanks
 
The Gurkha Regiment is a part of the British Army. Apart from the commissioned officers it is mostly made up of Gurungs (mountain people of Nepal). They are renowned for being expert with the kukhri, which they use daily as an agricultural tool and occasionally for fighting in close combat in wars as needed. The Gurkha Regiment is a sizeable and very frequently deployed regiment in modern conflicts.

That's why it seems to me that teaching a Gurkha to use a kukhri would be like teaching a polar bear to eat fish. Even if it was necessary, the Army has hundreds of fully paid-up enlisted real Gurkhas who could train other troops in using the kukhri. Of course, as a non-Gurkha I might be mistaken which is why I'm interested in seeking official confirmation that Simon teaches the armed forces as claimed.

After carrying out the checks with the checkable information I am sure Simon will kindly supply, I will honestly report to the forum my findings.
 
Hello Svashtar,

That was our first attempt, a good kukri but not quite right, that has now been corrected, as per the pics below;

TK8_2.jpg


TK8_3.jpg


Hello Lokk,

I don't know what you you know about English Boarding schools in the early 1970's, but it isn't what I remember.

If you want to know about the basics of the Gurkhas in the British army read this link and get your facts right;

Gurkhas

Regarding my position about teaching and being associated with British armed forces try this link;

RAF Regiment

And this one, in the testimonials I actualy taught kukri to the then Gorkha Army Close Quarter Combat Instructer;

Testimonials

Cheers Simon
 
Dear Lokk, obvoiusly you have the inability to read websites !!! if you had read all on the Tora site i think its pretty self explantirary. Sirupate is a world class and leading martial artist with great respect and feel youyr comments to be childish. What are you creditionals to question sirupate?
 
Sirupate said:
Hello Lokk,

I don't know what you you know about English Boarding schools in the early 1970's, but it isn't what I remember.

If you want to know about the basics of the Gurkhas in the British army read this link and get your facts right;

Gurkhas

Regarding my position about teaching and being associated with British armed forces try this link;

RAF Regiment

And this one, in the testimonials I actualy taught kukri to the then Gorkha Army Close Quarter Combat Instructer;

Testimonials

Cheers Simon

You give no references. Just unsubstantiated claims and photos. From *YOUR OWN* website. Nothing else. As a University researcher having done many literature reviews and being an avid student of scientific information, any and all information or your alleged "facts" and "testimonials" are, by that very nature, nothing but flimsy drivel, anecdotal information or evidence at best...

In massive contrast;

Infinately more extensive and credible Khukuri History

And Here

And Here!

Lokk said:
Simon I find it unlikely that the armed forces rely on non-Gurkha civilians such as yourself to come in and train their people in kukhri combat, and I wish to check this claim. Could you please supply contact details for someone who is able to confirm on behalf of the armed forces that you are used to help train their people.

That's why it seems to me that teaching a Gurkha to use a kukhri would be like teaching a polar bear to eat fish. Even if it was necessary, the Army has hundreds of fully paid-up enlisted real Gurkhas who could train other troops in using the kukhri. Of course, as a non-Gurkha I might be mistaken which is why I'm interested in seeking official confirmation that Simon teaches the armed forces as claimed.

Good Point
I don't see anyone there looking like Simon. It looks like *GASP!* a fellow Nepali! Who'd have thought they'd use they're own people?!


There really isn't much to dispute from those sources. They are fully authenticated and referenced...

Again, more credible info on The Ghorkhalis

Gurkha said:
Dear Lokk, obvoiusly you have the inability to read websites !!! if you had read all on the Tora site i think its pretty self explantirary. Sirupate is a world class and leading martial artist with great respect and feel youyr comments to be childish. What are you creditionals to question sirupate?

Typical AMA. If you have any level of tertiary education, my explanations above significantly diminish the credibility of Simon, his claims and assertions. Waving around your (or your god's) resume does not in any way make you correct or settle the issue. It only proves two things: *YOU* are insecure and in fact *YOU* are the childish one and not anyone else.

Sigh. That was WAAAAAAAAAAAAY OT, but necessary.

BTTT:
I ascribe to..... Oh wait, has Ghost Kobun left the thread? Have *ALL* the sensible individuals with anything useful to contribute left because this quite interesting thread has degenerated into a foetid mass of insults and accusations? Gee, I wonder why? ;)

Do we wanna continue in a new thread?
 
Simon ("sirupate"),

First of all please address Hibuke's post, which seems to be an exceptionally well-informed analysis. Mine is, as before, a simple non-expert's request for checkable references.

You seem to have a problem with underestimating the intelligence of the common man (myself). You have blatantly abused my legitimate and polite request for references to supply a response that does not answer any of the questions I posed and which instead attempts to promote yourself and your website. I am tempted to draw certain inferences about you, but will refrain until you have had a chance to respond to this second request to set the record straight with checkable references.

Sirupate said:
I don't know what you you know about English Boarding schools in the early 1970's, but it isn't what I remember.

My question was: which public school did you go to . I intend to check that you really went there, because I do not believe your claims about what you learned there (where?). I find them ludicrous actually.

If you want to know about the basics of the Gurkhas in the British army read this link and get your facts right;

Gurkhas

You are the one lacking knowledge. What did I get wrong regarding gurkhas? Let me tell you what you have got wrong. A vast swathe of the people of Nepal are nominally of the warrior caste. That does not make them gurkhas. Gurkhas are traditionally the Gurungs, although anyone is allowed to enlist in the Gurkha Regiment so you have Chettris etc.

You seem to be a very arrogant fellow. I wonder whether your personal attitude conceals any real knowledge that you didn't simply cut-and-paste from an encyclopedia. As at this time I find you have no credibility on gurkhas or on martial arts at all, it is obviously not appropriate to refer me to a link from your own website. You should attempt to point me to a reputable third party source for such information, rather than try to abuse bladeforums to promote your own angle.

For your information, contrary to the rubbish you have published on your website and which I have saved for future reference for after you have changed it, Chettris are not considered Gurkhas by anyone in Nepal, although they may join the British Army or Nepal's Army, neither of which care about much apart from that the solider can do the job.

Regarding my position about teaching and being associated with British armed forces try this link;

RAF Regiment

Looking for what I asked, the name of an official source who can corroborate your story I visited the link. Imagine my surprise when there were no contact details for me to cross-check.

You claim to have taught Royal Marine Commandos (an outrageous claim which I'm sure the RN will be interested in and which I would like to bring to ther attention) and RAF personnel (likewise). I will take that as an admission that you do not "teach British forces" (i.e. are not brought in by them nor recommended to teach any troops at all), and now you've adapted and are trying to say you teach visiting off-duty squaddies from time to time. But you have not provided any way to check even this claim. I therefore do not accept this claim, and consider that the modification of your claims (from first "teaching the British forces" to then teaching some people who joined your club and who might be members of HM's armed forces) further diminishes your credibility. I now have serious doubts about your claims. Even in the unlikely event that your modified story is true, it doesn't mean much if some squaddies joined your club in their free time.

What if a police officer joined your club to see if you had anything worthwhile to teach, and then left after a couple of weeks after being quietly disappointed with your shortcomings? Would you then say "I teach the British police", or "I taught the British police", or "I have given specialist instruction to elite law enforcement officers"? What would be your story Simon?

Regarding the above link, it talks about a "Report" but there is no "Report" posted there. Even if there is a report, I hope you understand that I don't want it to be YOUR report, but someone else's. This is in order to test your claims.

And this one, in the testimonials I actualy taught kukri to the then Gorkha Army Close Quarter Combat Instructer;

Testimonials

All your website shows is a picture of a Nepali-looking man and you standing next to him. The caption states (your quotes, strangely - as if even you don't believe it): "Shree Dhar Bhujel, the close quarter combat instructor of the Royal Nepalese Gorkha Commandos".

So where is his "testimonial" then Simon? I looked all over your website and found a poor way to cut a watermelon, and no words from this alleged close quarter combat instructor . It's just a mugshot. It could be ANY Oriental-looking fellow. Why don't you supply some checkable references now? I will check this guy's position and ask him or an official myself.

I don't mean to be facetious but I hope you realise that although a man (who? - how can I check this?) may consent to be photographed with you, that does not mean he thinks you're great, or that you are a great fighter, or that you're an authentic teacher, or that you have any special knowledge about his culture or that you're a great lover.

Please let's have some checkable references from official contacts in Nepal's Army or the RAF or British Army or RN now. Anyone who can say who you are and what you've done, please. You can email them to me privately through this website or else post them here for all to see, and I promise to report my findings honestly. I will revise my position after checking with the referees.

Thanks,

Lokk
 
Hibuke,

The information written by JP on that site, has a great deal of misinformation;

Hanshee

Origins of the kukri

Kukri names

On your link good point, its just a Publicity shot, and I never claimed to teach the British Gurkhas, but I have taught some Gurkha friends, very different.
And under the link, Again more credible info on The Ghorkhalis, even the first date is wrong LOL

Lokk,

Your apparent lack of knowledge is becomming more and more eveident, the Chettri formed the 9th. Gurkha Rifles LOL and have their origins back in 1817!!

I will ignore your rather outlandish insinuations about me as a person, and as Martial Artist.

Cheers Simon
 
Wow now you are attacking the work done by John Powell? Could you show the research that you have done that goes against what he says please? References maybe anything? Can you do anything other then attack the work done by others Simon? Tell us what you think and why. Don't tell us someones elses work is crap for no other reason then you say that it is. Considering the countless hours Mr. Powell has put into research you need to do more then say " I was talking to person "X" and they told me this" before you call anything he says disinformation
 
Sirupate said:
Hello Mark,

JP has already acknowledged that the information he has written is incorrect, in a truly gentlemanly manner.

Hanshee link


Cheers Simon


Then point that fact out. You make a much boarder attack then that alone. You bring into question everything that he said on the HI pages that were linked to in this thread.
"The information written by JP on that site, has a great deal of misinformation;" not he said he was wrong on this one issue.
Edited to add could you point out where in the thread you linked to that John Powell himeself came and corrected himeself. I see that Spiral said he confirmed by email that the terms were used in error but do you have anything other then that? You implied that he himself corrected the issue on this thread.
 
Dear Lokk, it is sorry to see your ignorance but i guess your just that type of person. Sirupate has been a friend of mine and teacher for some 14 years. i have trained amongst him and his great fighters, all of them !! and i have NEVER seen another martial artist with such knowledge and ability. if you read through previous threads where martial atrt teachers straight back from Japan have come to prove Simon wrong in the dojo,normally leaving battered brusied and broken. His knowledge is second to none as well as his teaching, Tony Tasker was very close to World Heavyweight Champion in the 90`s and Simons career fighting record is impicalbe. i feel that you have no right to attack in such a way, a person who you do not know. if you want to find out more about him come and visit !!!!!! always room for one more in the dojo. as for his contacts with the Royal Marines, of late they are MY contacts, Chief Armourer Rick Thornton of 42 Commando ,Lympstone in Devon, UK. you are more than welcome to give him a ring oor even he might visit you when hes in th states working. He has just come back from a week with the SAS in Hereford and has taken his kukri to show his collesagues. i believe Lympstone base is taking some models into the arms shops for soldiers to purcase for there own use as they find them superior to the standard issue. i think also 40 commando are off to the jungle soon and will be taking some there too. they are very interested in his knowledge, giving that are Commandos are the best in thw world. So i would suggest you re phrase some of you childish accusation or just bugger off !
 
Hello Mark,

If you read the links given all the info is there, it is now recognised by kukri historains that a lot of what JP wrote about kukri was incorrect, even the basic things like the links of the kopis to the machiara, The Nepali name of the cho is wrong Kaudi link , The ref to symbols referring to an Armoury manufacturer, the incorrect use of the term pana butta, the terms Hanshee, Bhojpure, Budhume, Sirupate comming from Western Nepal, the blade types to caste, and so on (except to say that the Modern Siru came from the Limbu tribe in Eastern Nepal).


Cheers Simon
 
Sirupate said:
Hello Mark,

If you read the links given all the info is there, it is now recognised by kukri historains that a lot of what JP wrote about kukri was incorrect, even the basic things like the links of the kopis to the machiara, The Nepali name of the cho is wrong Kaudi link , The ref to symbols referring to an Armoury manufacturer, the incorrect use of the term pana butta, the terms Hanshee, Bhojpure, Budhume, Sirupate comming from Western Nepal, the blade types to caste, and so on (except to say that the Modern Siru came from the Limbu tribe in Eastern Nepal).


Cheers Simon


And these "Kukri historians" are who again? By the links that you provide that would for the most part mean you. Even in the above link Mr Powell list three other possible names for the cho; KAURI, KAURA, KAURO so you of course go with Kaudi. No where in that link does the "Kukri historians" come out and tell Mr. Powell that he was wrong or that you are right for that matter. I guess you are the only one that believes you have the total truth and you are never wrong. Keep posting these great links maybe you will post one that will actually back up the things you say here at some point.
 
Mark,
Sirupate did not answer your question. You stated he'd made a much broader accusation of inaccuracy againt Powel. His answer was to list a couple of mistakes. So, did he mean to make a broad accusation against Powel? He won't say so now.

That is Sirupate.


munk
 
Hello Mark,

The thread I linked was done by one of the those historians, in fact the top historian on kukri in World, who along with me spent quite some time investigating kukri history in Nepal, perhaps you should do the same to get a better understanding about kukri?

Hello Munk,

I actualy listed 8 mistakes, and that was just an example, how many more would you like me to point out to you?

Cheers Simon
 
Sirupate said:
I never claimed to teach the British Gurkhas ...
Indeed :

Sirupate said:
My credentials are, I have fought many times in the ring (albeit a few years ago ;) including defeating the British Heavyweight Judo Champion who was also a good boxer in a challenge match), first as a middleweight, then a super middleweight and finally at lightheavyweight, I have also done door work and taught some of the British and Gorkha forces close quarter work, and I was the British Kickboxing World Champion Squad Coach.
-Cliff
 
Please please please help me i dont seem to understand.if u feel sirupate is not telling the truth,please visit this antique historical kukri site ans ask them there opinion.

IKRHS

And BTW how come you are so hot on kukri knowledge,history and teaching because i didnt realise the Gurkhas were part of the American Army :D . Please correct me if i am wrong but surely us "British" have just a fraction more association than you with the Gurkhas and the Nepalise as we fought side by side with them !!!!!!!
 
Cliff,

As I am sure you are aware the Gorkhas are the Nepalise Army and the Gurkhas are the British army, thought you might know that?

Cheers Simon
 
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