Kali done with Khukri's

I have to hand it to the HI crowd, they are patient to say the least. I am not, or at least not with trolls.

Hey Kukrilove, are you yelling or did your caps button get stuck again? :rolleyes: TROLL (sorry I think there must be something wrong with my keyboard also).

Willard, I have only recently been educating myself on HI kukris and even I know that the tip is left soft. I believe you knew that too and quite frankly I am suspicious of your character and/or motives at this point.

However, I am not suspicious of any of the other Tora "supporters" (excluding Leanne/Kohei). Suspicion has long since turned to conclusion. I put the word supporters in quotations because if anything they are doing a disservise to Tora as others have pointed out.
 
Cheers, Willard.

Your first HI looks like a "BAS" (British Army Service) model. It is still available but, as noted, is not hardened at the tip either.

And would you be a regular over at the Tora forum?
 
Thomas, I can't see any brass inlay so I think it is a WWll.

Is his damaged khuk a year old and he's never contacted HI about it? That's too bad.

For the record, I once asked Uncle Bill about earlier khuks from HI. "Is there any reason I should collect those over the current production? Are they better?

"No." In his usual succinct style.

I'm glad Uncle Bill isn't here to see this thread, though I don't guess it would have bothered him. He was tolerant and kind. Every khuk leaving the shop has a prayer, a blessing that the blade never be drawn in anger. His blades last through use and abuse, and in the very rare circumstance of a defect, made right every time. He built a business on these principles- the best product at the best price and the customer is always right or he wouldn't do it. So naturally HI becomes number one.

Number One will always be under attack by someone or something. That's just human nature.


munk
 
Willard P said:
The 2004 verson with a torn edge from cutting down a small fir tree......
......horrible blade shape, little to no temper in the edge, handle is 50% bigger than it should be.....
......I have 20" Sirupate that's the same way
Click to expand...
The 2nd WWII you show appears to be about 20" if the first is 18" oal.
18" is the largest regular production WWII;
so you must have gotten a special order blade.
The larger, heavier khuks often are made with larger, longer grips
to accomodate a history of buyer requests.


I don't know fir trees,
but I don't see how chopping wood
could cause such localized damage.
The only tip sections I ever damaged
were from hitting concrete or rocks,
and those smoothed out with a few seconds of filework.

HI has always accepted returns & offered exchanges
when the customer was dissatisfied for any reason.

Sounds like you disliked it from the start
& should have returned or exchanged it.

A few bad items sometimes slip through;
in even the best products.
It happens.
And HI offers the guarantee to cover that.


~
~~~~~~~~~
<> THEY call me 'Dean' :)-fYI-fWiW-iIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TiA-YW-GL-HH-HBd-IBSCUtWS-theWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D
 
First lets get something straight, I could care less about the pissing contest going on between HI and Tora. So don't accuse me of anything you can't back up!

I was simply making a comparison between 2 of HI's 18" WW2 that I bought almost 10 years apart.

Yes, the horn handled khuk I show in my pick is an 18" WW2. The intire blade, CHO TO TIP IS HARDENED, the way it should be. I have used every inch of the blade to cut and chop. The blade has never really dulled even when I used it a little to close to some chainlink fence around my property. A few swipes with a steel and the edge is as keen as ever. It has never failed me. This blade is one of my treasured possesions. Last year I wanted to retire this Khuk and get another one from Bill.

What I received (the bottom wood handled verson) was a very big disapointment.

For all of you who think that a Khuk is only supposed to be hardened at the "sweet spot" aren't playing with a full deck. Show me a source other the HI forum to back up this theory?

I have no use for blade that I can't cut or chop with entire length of the blade. Is the belly of the blade the optimal spot to chop with, sure it is. But, the rest of the edge should do the same with no structural problems. The tear in the blade that I'm showing is almost deadon with the sweet spot. If it's not you all sure as hell have better aim than I do. THE ENTIRE EDGE ON THIS KHUK IS DEAD SOFT! For me this a quality control issue.
Like I said I will always cherish my original HI 18" WW2. If this pizzes some of you off fine, I just don't look upon Himalayn imports khuks with the cult like fanatasim some of you do.
 
nobody said you had to love HI like the rest of us, Willard. All we're saying is that if your blade was mangled by light duty (or heavy duty, for that matter) chopping, then why not send it back? It costs you nothing but postage one way and you get a brand new knife. OR, you could have sent it back to Uncle Bill and he would have gladdly given you your money back. Personally, i'm glad that HI only fully hardens the sweet spot. I have too many bowies and other knives that have chipped out on me due to a bad blow because they were hardened all the way up the edge. I like the softer edge at the tip and cho, but that just this little duck's feeling on the matter. HI does in fact make several blades that the entire length of the blade is hardened as these are not hard use khukuris, but slicing or stabbing knives. That shows that they can do it when they feel it is deemed appropriate.
I have collected HI knives for the last 3 years. Granted, I do not have the experience with the older style HI blades, but I have be wittness to several hiccups in production. Maoist uprisings, crunch time before the religious holidays, etc have costed a few bad blades to leak out that normally wouldn't have.
You have a bad knife. I have had dozens and dozens of HI khuks pass through my hands over the last three years. I have never experienced any of the problems or weaknesses that others have claimed with HI's construction. Honestly, i would contact Yangdu about the split blade. You got a lemon, but it doesn't mean HI is a lemon.

Let's all be real honest with ourselves here. Tora or HI khuks are built to out last our grandkids. I can't speak for everyone, but i would be willing to wager that most of us will never in our lives put a khuk through what the average farmer in Nepal will. I will agree with this, those of us from the HI are loyal to the death. Probably to the point to where we engage other loyalist in a "N'uh Yu'huh" argument. Look, you guys like Brand X and we like Brand Y. Cool enough with me. Potato PotAHto. However, i know one thing and it's the God honest truth. You would never, NEVER, have seen Bill Martino post a picture of the competition's Khuk and call it garbage. He wouldn't have cared as long as it was putting money back into the pockets of the pour untouchables of Nepal.

Just my .02 worth
Jake
 
I went to the listing of all your posts. Interesting recurrent theme in each of them. You might consider getting help with anger management.

Be well and safe.

07-11-2004, 01:45 PM
Willard P
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6


I really can't think of words strong enough to discribe how I feel about Ryan Johnson, Crook, Charlaton,Absolutely no Business ethics! I ordered a tomahawk , paid in full $350, three years ago, no tomahawk ! He refuses to respond to e-mails for the last year. He has my money,I have no 'hawk. I hope he chokes on the money he's making on those military orders. I wouldn't piss on the guy if he was on fire!!

07-12-2004, 08:02 PM
Willard P
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert.B
Calling as mention would be the better thing to do, and there has been family issues which are best left to him to talk about, the military orders and the fact he is back logged in the years...thus why he is not taking custom orders EVER again. its people bagging his work and him because his getting swamped that has made he leave custom behind...which was stated in the last email I recieved from him.

he is still making back logged orders of traditional and tactical civilian hawks, get in contact via phone...if you dont wish to wait he will more then likely issue a refund, I've dealt with many custom smiths and if your not happy you have that right to back out. Their are hawk smiths at his level, hell Mark who posted before me makes brilliant traditional hawks with a wicked flare to them.



I guess that's my problem with Ryan .I do want a refund. He has become less and less responsive over the last year and a half. He refuses to answer e-mails trying to get ahold of him by phone is a impossible. I have asked for my order or a refund for the last year. When he has taken the time to respond it's always been "Your tomahawk is in the rack waiting for a handle. You'll be getting it in the next week". Guess what? It never arrives! To be honest I wouldn't mind the wait if he'd communicate but he doesn't! I just did a search here on RMJ forge And it seems I'm not the only one who's dealings with ryan has been onesided. Some have had to threaten legal action in order to get thier money back.

With customer service like this, no wonder people get fustrated with him. How can he expect anything else?

All I wanted was a nice looking traditional 'hawk I could add to a wall display. He was enthusiastic about recieving my payment, to bad he isn't as enthusiastic about shipping out orders to paying customers.

11-04-2004, 10:20 PM
Willard P
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6


Possum , I ordered that tomahawk about a year ago. Very dissapointed. It is very small, more like a model of a tomahawk. I have it stored somewhere but I think the head is only 4" long(cutting edge to end of bowl), the cutting edge is only an 1 1/2 " wide,tiny. The handle is 18" long but it is a little smaller than a drumstick in it's diameter. It is drilled and is smokeable. The mouthpiece is glued on with hot melt,mine fell off. The bowl is small,it's what I knew as a kid as a "one hitter" .

It's actually a miniature of the real thing. I think those things are selling for about $50,$60 ,not worth it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Willard P : 11-04-2004 at 10:23 PM.

03-04-2005, 01:50 PM
Willard P
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knife11
Yes well thank you for pointing that out but just because, chicago is a democratic strong hold doesn't mean the rest of the state is. Especially in peoria. I'd really like to know what started all this in peoria!




1. Peoria is a union controlled socialist hellhole.
2. Peoria is a Union controlled socialist hellhole
3 you get the idea.
Those who run Peoria have thier heads so far up Chicago's arse. You can't tell when one stops and the other begins. In these parts Peoria is known as little chicago.

About two years ago I visited thier Gander Mountain that had just opened.
I was looking at what they were offering as far as their gun sellection was concerned. In thier display case was a mint S&W 625-1, model of 1988 for $425 that an employee had just traded in. "I'll take it!" Due to my ignorance of peoria law. To buy a handgun in city limits I'd have to fill out a City version of the 4473 along with my right thumb print which would be kept on file with the police dept.. I didn't know this until I had filled out the fed 4473.

The salesman got kinda pissed when, after I saw the ink pad, I told him to get bent and tore up the FED yellow sheet stuffed it in my pocket and walked out. A manager caught up with me halfway to my car. After I told him what my problem was his comment was . "We knew that would be a problem when we located a store here.

That was one sweet revolver to

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Willard P : 03-04-2005 at 05:45 PM.

Today, 02:52 PM
Willard P
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6


First lets get something straight, I could care less about the pissing contest going on between HI and Tora. So don't accuse me of anything you can't back up!

I was simply making a comparison between 2 of HI's 18" WW2 that I bought almost 10 years apart.

Yes, the horn handled khuk I show in my pick is an 18" WW2. The intire blade, CHO TO TIP IS HARDENED, the way it should be. I have used every inch of the blade to cut and chop. The blade has never really dulled even when I used it a little to close to some chainlink fence around my property. A few swipes with a steel and the edge is as keen as ever. It has never failed me. This blade is one of my treasured possesions. Last year I wanted to retire this Khuk and get another one from Bill.

What I received (the bottom wood handled verson) was a very big disapointment.

For all of you who think that a Khuk is only supposed to be hardened at the "sweet spot" aren't playing with a full deck. Show me a source other the HI forum to back up this theory?

I have no use for blade that I can't cut or chop with entire length of the blade. Is the belly of the blade the optimal spot to chop with, sure it is. But, the rest of the edge should do the same with no structural problems. The tear in the blade that I'm showing is almost deadon with the sweet spot. If it's not you all sure as hell have better aim than I do. THE ENTIRE EDGE ON THIS KHUK IS DEAD SOFT! For me this a quality control issue.
Like I said I will always cherish my original HI 18" WW2. If this pizzes some of you off fine, I just don't look upon Himalayn imports khuks with the cult like fanatasim some of you do.
 
I truly think this thread, and all related threads are long over-due to be locked.

They are a sad commentary on what should be a community.



Be well and safe.
 
A Mercedes Benz viewed on a tow truck does not mean all Mercedes Benz belong there.

Willard was asked if he frequents the Tora forum. He did not answer, and instead said he was not involved in a 'pissing contest' between Tora and HI, and was not a "cult" admirer of HI.

Some of my HI khuks are hardened nearly the full length, others are not. Question remains, Willard has had a year to do something about this, yet he appears in this thread at this time to gripe about it as if from his SINGLE khuk one could determine the entire industry. Willard has 6 posts to his name and is here now on this particular thread- but has no bias, he says.

Tora had some extra thin blades sold on web auction. At least one was subsequently negatively reviewed after failure. I and many others protested that- we agreed with Kohei that was not fair or indicative of Tora.

There's a Tora revealed now on HI forum that has a failed part. I haven't suggested all Tora's will fail or are no good because of it. Either has anyone in the forum. Why would we do that? It's not logical or honest or fair.

Here we are; answering shrill charge after charge, as if Tora was even in the same ballpark as HI. They are not. Perhaps if they ever sell 20,000 blades, and the blades hold after decades of extreme use, they might be. As most of them are sold to cut air it seems unlikely they will fail to accomplish that.

Anyone can claim parity after selling a few blades. Heck, you can claim your Johnny come lately wonder air slicer is the best on Earth. Don't be shocked if no one believes you, especially after you've put down the industry leader to gain a leg up. There are ads in comic books for instant muscles that carry more weight.

This bears repeating- we welcomed other khuks. It is the behavior of Simon and Tora shills that is unacceptable.


munk
 
So many things I COULD SAY ABOUT YOUR REACTIONS, BUT LETS STICK TO FACTS.

1. HABAKI BOLSTERS HIDE TANGS NOT BLADE!, THATS A POTENTIAL FUTRE WEAKNESS & A POOR QUALITY SHORTCUT!

2.IF YOU HAVE EVER FORGED OR GROUND METAL YOU KNOW THE ROUNDED 45% DEGREE POINT IS QUICKER TO MAKE THAN A long pointed POINT & IT TAKES MORE TIME & GREATER CARE/SKILL TO BEAT THE METAL THINNER WITHOUT ERRORS.

3. STRAIGHT HANDLES ARE NOT ERGONOMIC!

4.HI SCABBARS ARE LOOSE FITTING ON AVERAGE,

5, THERE IS NO LOOP OR SCABBARD PROJECTION TO HOLD FROG IN THE PROPER PLACE.

6. HI KUKRIS ARE HIGHLY POLISHED , MORE SO THAN TORA OR ANOTHER MAKER.

NOT ALL HI KUKRIS ARE BAD BUT MANY ARE QUITE POOR REALY.

SAD BUT TRUE,

KL.
 
Oh holy hell, OK, The only reason I even responded to this post was to relate my on experience with 2 products from HI, i decided to include pics. For some reason only known to you all I've been dogpiled on. You are tying to find some sinister motives that just aren't there.

To answer a couple of accusations and question that have been leveled at me
1. The main reason I have not returned the WW2 that's defective? Is becuase from the time I bought it is it was common knowledge Bill was very ill. I didn't want to burden him with any more problems than he already had. Time went by and suddenly Bill was gone. Again Bad timing on my part, Yangdu had all she could handle on her part.

2 Do I have connections with Tora's website?
In a way yes I do, You see I've lurked at Blade forums for years, espesially Himalayan Imports. No I don't post alot because as you can see by my posts on this thread I'm not exactly a wordsmith. I'm rather embarased at my inability to put thoughts into words ( if you want to flame me for that have fun) I've done the samething with the Tora forums, simple as that. Yes I've learned alot from Simon and his foromites, I've learned 10 fold from HI. If that makes me the enemy so be it.

Again I was simply pointing out my experience. I stand by my opinions I've stated in this thread with no apolliges
 
Willard, please contact Yangdu and send a pict of the khuk to her.

Stop by HI forum some time and try to overcome the writer's block. I've had some khuk failures not related to the tip. During the Maoist uprising there was a drop in QC as the kamis were afraid for their lives. I fractured a blade. Bill sent a new one. I am very very hard on my HI khuks. As a proof test I slam them in different directions against unyeilding wood- hard as I can. I've cut resin encrusted old pine with them- hard as iron.

The newer ones I have, like the villager I just got (with a curved handle and pointed blade!) is just as tough as the ones from several years ago when Bill was healthier.

take care,

munk
 
ddean said:
I don't know fir trees, but I don't see how chopping wood
could cause such localized damage.
Click to expand...
Irregularity in grain, knot, small branch, or just badly twisted wood. I have seen the same.

Willard P said:
...only supposed to be hardened at the "sweet spot" aren't playing with a full deck.
Click to expand...
Why would you insult someone and then expect your questions to be answered? You guys need to work on your trolling skills to be a little less obvious.

But to those curious, Valiant Goloks for example are soft towards the tip and handle in the same way, so are many traditional blades.

Many western blades which are differentially hardened leave the tips and the steel in front the handle softer for the same reason HI does.

-Cliff
 
Siga Siga said:
However, I am not suspicious of any of the other Tora "supporters" (excluding Leanne/Kohei).
Click to expand...

Hi Siga,

Apols for asking, (but i've been out with my girlies having a good time), and can't quite make out by your wording if your comment above is good or bad in terms of me!! I think its good/positive, but just wanted to clarify!!!!

At the end of the day, this is NOT my argument.....

I am half of Tora, but I am my own person. I see good and bad points in both sides of this discussion....

Leanne
 
To answer a couple of accusations and question that have been leveled at me
1. The main reason I have not returned the WW2 that's defective? Is becuase from the time I bought it is it was common knowledge Bill was very ill. I didn't want to burden him with any more problems than he already had. Time went by and suddenly Bill was gone. Again Bad timing on my part, Yangdu had all she could handle on her part.
Click to expand...

You were insulting in your post previous to this, yet I find what I quoted you saying to be an honorable thing to do. I remain unsure about you.

Hi Siga,

Apols for asking, (but i've been out with my girlies having a good time), and can't quite make out by your wording if your comment above is good or bad in terms of me!! I think its good/positive, but just wanted to clarify!!!!

At the end of the day, this is NOT my argument.....

I am half of Tora, but I am my own person. I see good and bad points in both sides of this discussion....
Click to expand...

No insult intended, made, or implied. I was in fact implying that I believe you to be on a much higher level then the other Tora "supporters".

If you are indeed "half of Tora" then you're clearly the better half.
 
Thank you Siga....... I thought that was the case, just wanted clarification.
Its late here in the UK, i'm gonna get some zzzzZZZZZ.

For you US guys, i guess prime internet time is about to occur. I'll catch up in the morn...

Good night!
Leanne
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Irregularity in grain, knot, small branch, or just badly twisted wood. I have seen the same.
Click to expand...
Thanks

Bet it was one of the thinner blade bevels too,
glad those were taken care of.



~
~~~~~~~~~
<> THEY call me 'Dean' :)-fYI-fWiW-iIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TiA-YW-GL-HH-HBd-IBSCUtWS-theWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D
 
I have been a martial artist (no, not FMA) since '94 in kobudo styles. The kuk is not a traditional Japanese blade shape, but the good thing is, once your body knows how to move, it can do it with any tool.

I am hard on my tools, and have a reputation among many who know me for breaking them. I have an early HI WWII 16.5" kuk that is my favorite knife, and has been since I picked it up the first time. I think I've had it for 5 years now, and it has served me well. It has one noticeable nick in it from hitting an abandoned marble countertop that was covered in brush. The chip in the marble was much larger. :)

I had another HI kuk that I took into the field with me when I was in the Army and stationed at Fort Lewis. As a mortarman, it was used to clear light brush in the way of our aiming poles. I later used this same kuk extensively on 100 acres of hunting land, clearing out brush, and trees up to 6" in diameter, even though this was a lighter model kuk. It has cut down many hours worth of small pines and pin oaks, and was still in shape for me to gift it to a friend who had come to visit the camp for a week, and who was inseperable from that Chitlangi.

Every art has certain characteristics it tends to value. There are certainly some kukuris from HI that just don't feel "right" for me, but I understand I am just not partial to that style of kukuri, and my feeling in no way reflects on the quality.

I would think an Englishman, especially an instructor, would have a reasonable command of English. If so, it would have made a lot more sense to say "these are the characteristics I look for in MY martial kukuris" instead of saying "these are examples of poor craftsmanship".

I would say, better luck next time, but I think you have badly damaged your own cause, and in as much as any poor Nepalis will suffer from your arrogance and disingenuity, I am very sorry.

John Shirley
 
Khukrilove, You Are Stating Opinions And Calling Them Facts. Your Claims Are Substantiated Only By Your Typing Them In Caps. I Prefer A Straight Handle. I Find Curved Handles Not Ergonomic. Who Was Talking About Scabbards Or Frogs? They Are Not The Issue At Hand. Your Claim That They Are Loose Fitting Is Based On What? Your Claims About Short Cuts Are Only That.

I tried to type that in all caps, maybe he communicates better that way, but only the first letters are capped, my computer does weird things. I don't think you can reach him anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top