Kershaw Lockbacks Made in China!!

[The Mastiff]

It seems as if there is more and more irrational and pissed off people like james0723 lately. Probably the economy I guess. .

I guess if you are not above mistating facts, and changing peoples words to suit your arguments, talking about things you have no knowledge about should come as no surprise.

First Spyderco, then Kershaw. Who is next?

 

[Dekz]

I can't believe you guys even responded to the ignorant ranting of that lunatic.

Makes me want to go out and buy 5 or 6 Chinese made Kershaws out of spite for the agony reading this thread has inflicted upon me.

 

[David M]

I have no say in where a knife manufacturer makes their knives. I do have a say in what I choose to purchase and if it is not made in USA I will not buy it!

 

[jill jackson]

Walmart carries the Buck, 110 and 119 both made in the USA. I've bought those from there and couple of Kershaws that were USA made.

 

[Ankerson]

And what percentage of the Chinese population has cars Esav? Furthermore what percentage of the car owners work in factories? It's only the small richer class that has the cars, like the factory owners, not the factory workers.

You call me ignorant but I'm telling it like it is, while you falsely try to paint Chinese factories as good places to work that pay living wages.

What you mean like the study that was done years ago on the American auto industry to see what the auto workers were driving.

Well a lot of them were driving cars and trucks made overseas, and these were American autoworkers that wouldn't even buy the products they made. Workers that were WAY over paid (And still are) and got a discount and still wouldn't buy their own products.

I've spent 2 weeks straight in China working at the factories. Does that count?

It's standard just about anyplace when they are going to get visitors they cleanup and make things seem perfect as they can make it, that's in a lot of businesses not just factories.

The only way to see how things really are is to work there for a long time or do a suprise inspection with no warning at all, but even then the word seems to get out that people are coming.

As an example:

In the company I used to work for they were expecting some company (VP Level and up). Well they pulled 14 (Salaried) Managers and worked them for 3 days 10 hours a day to get everything perfect for the visit. The store was also overstaffed compared to a usual day. The upper level management never sees how things truly are, the Middle Management makes sure that doesn't happen. So as far as they know everything is just perfect when they visit not knowing they put an extra 420+ hours in that one store to get things ready for them. So as far as they know the store is operating perfect being really undermanned with not enough hours to get anything done.

 

[tirod3]

My paternal grandmother worked at a Levi's factory in SF in the early 1920's. She was an inspector and worked on a piece rate, which was changed four times as she maxed out the scale improving her speed and routine. She also improved the sewing line's assembly speed with improvements in rate.

She walked out the last change as it was going to be another 25% increase in output with no extra pay. ANYBODY who works in a factory eventually faces this - labor is expendable, and management will do whatever it takes to reduce costs.

America invented the sweatshop and exported it to find cheaper labor. Look around, you can't find many manufacturing jobs anymore, and staying with one company your entire career is now a fool's errand.

Since we all buy according to the low price guarantee, we are getting exactly what we deserve.

 

[Ankerson]

My paternal grandmother worked at a Levi's factory in SF in the early 1920's. She was an inspector and worked on a piece rate, which was changed four times as she maxed out the scale improving her speed and routine. She also improved the sewing line's assembly speed with improvements in rate.

She walked out the last change as it was going to be another 25% increase in output with no extra pay. ANYBODY who works in a factory eventually faces this - labor is expendable, and management will do whatever it takes to reduce costs.

America invented the sweatshop and exported it to find cheaper labor. Look around, you can't find many manufacturing jobs anymore, and staying with one company your entire career is now a fool's errand.

Since we all buy according to the low price guarantee, we are getting exactly what we deserve.

Yep, it's all Corporate greed in the end, and you are correct, the American Companies invented the sweatshop.

It's still here, but just in different forms, the Corporations want more and more work with less all the time. It's a never ending cycle.

 

[Sep]

Yep, it's all Corporate greed in the end, and you are correct, the American Companies invented the sweatshop.

It's still here, but just in different forms, the Corporations want more and more work with less all the time. It's a never ending cycle.

Are you sure it's purely corporate greed and not corporate survival? When my company's competitor finds a way to produce their goods cheaper without reducing quality, what do you think would happen to me? Would consumers find charity in their hearts and pay my higher price? Would you pay my higher price for the same exact quality if the competitor's and mine are both U.S. companies? Do you expect me to just close up shop at the first hint of competition?

 

[Ankerson]

Are you sure it's purely corporate greed and not corporate survival? When my company's competitor finds a way to produce their goods cheaper without reducing quality, what do you think would happen to me? Would consumers find charity in their hearts and pay my higher price? Would you pay my higher price for the same exact quality if the competitor's and mine are both U.S. companies? Do you expect me to just close up shop at the first hint of competition?

No, it's greed.

A Corporation's 1st priority is to the Stock Holders, then Board of Directors and High Level Corp Management, then last on the list is The Customers and Employees. (Big Corps High Level Management really don't care about the customers at all) All they care about is the bottom line and how big of a Bonus check they can get. They will work everyone to death to get it, and if they can't get it they will cut payroll and corners like crazy until they can.

It's about Bonuses and kickbacks, paying out Dividends and keeping the High level Managements HIGH Salaries and big Bonuses.

Quality comes long after all of that.

That's Business and Management 101.

Most people today shop PRICE first, quality doesn't even factor into it. The companies know this too.

 

[Sep]

No, it's greed.

A Corporation's 1st priority is to the Stock Holders, then Board of Directors and High Level Corp Management, then last on the list is The Customers and Employees. (Big Corps High Level Management really don't care about the customers at all) All they care about is the bottom line and how big of a Bonus check they can get. They will work everyone to death to get it, and if they can't get it they will cut payroll and corners like crazy until they can.

It's about Bonuses and kickbacks, paying out Dividends and keeping the High level Managements HIGH Salaries and big Bonuses.

Quality comes long after all of that.

That's Business and Management 101.

Most people today shop PRICE first, quality doesn't even factor into it. The companies know this too.

Hmm, that's not exactly what my business and management classes taught me, certainly not at the 101 level.

It's true that a corporation's first objective is to increase the value of shareholder's investment. However, you can only achieve that goal if you produce goods and services that clients/customers want. Quality is very important, but not the way a lay person understands it.

Without regurgitating all my class material, suffice to say that everybody has a different idea about "quality". If superior quality is always the defining criterion for buying a product, everybody will be driving BMW. The fact that only a small minority drives BMW tells you that superior quality is not everything.

When society / the market decides that they're not willing to pay the price of cars created by $28/hour labor and start buying from the competition (paying $18/hour), what adjective should I use to describe a worker who insists on getting paid $28/hour without increased quality nor productivity? I'm not so sure myself about what words to use, but "smart" is definitely not one of them.

In my line of work I'm constantly learning new things and finding ways to always improve how the company works. I have little sympathy toward people who graduated, got into a job, and think they're through with learning. They think they deserve the job and deserve to keep it without any effort of self improvement. Society constantly demand better and cheaper products, a company that keeps workers who demand the same wage without improvement in productivity will go bankrupt.

 

[Ankerson]

In my line of work I'm constantly learning new things and finding ways to always improve how the company works. I have little sympathy toward people who graduated, got into a job, and think they're through with learning. They think they deserve the job and deserve to keep it without any effort of self improvement. Society constantly demand better and cheaper products, a company that keeps workers who demand the same wage without improvement in productivity will go bankrupt.

Oh you mean cutting every place you can and putting more on the workers that are still there? Cutting payroll by 20% and expecting the workers to make up the slack plus 15% this Quarter, then add on another 10% next quarter and so on. Cutting the benefits back, not giving raises or decreasing them, hiring at lower wages and firing the higher paid workers. Therefore treating them like machines instead of people.

Outsourcing labor overseas and laying off thousands of American workers.

The problem with American Corporations is they have to see an increase in profit every quarter over the past quarter. After awhile they have to start cutting quality and manpower or the profits will flatten out.

Also during times like these the Corps treat their people like crap because they know they can't just go out and get another job, this happens all the time every time Unemployment rates go up. It's like either do all that extra work or work all those extra hours if they are Salary or get fired period.

Yes I know how it works, I have been in Management almost my whole working life. I am ashamed to admit it because it's just Pathetic the things I have seen and had to do over the years.

THAT IS CORP GREED!!!!!

But yes a lot of the blame goes on the Consumer for buying the cheap products and not demanding high quality. It's more about price than quality.

 

[marthinus]

Are you being serious? Consider that the only Spyderco knives Wal-Mart used to carry were the ones made in China. And most of the other knives they carry are made in China. Don't take my word for it, you can go to your local Wal-Mart and take inventory of where the 30 or so knives they carry are made yourself, my guess is that except for the current Kershaws (which we now know will probably change soon) all the knives are made in China.

Wal-Mart is one step up from the dollar store, you think they're being picky about anything they carry? They are only picky about one thing, "is this product cheap enough?".

As Josh said:

Funny, the USA made Native is the only Spyderco I recall seeing at Wal-Mart. I think you might be mixing some things up.

The only Spyderco knives made in China is the Tenacious and the Percistance the other line of knives are the Byrd line. Most Spyderco's are either Japan or USA.

If you feel that you will no longer buy a knife from a knife company that make knives in China. Do not buy anymore Benchmades, Kershaws or Spydercos. Fine with me, cause there are more for me.

On another note. This has come up lately quite a lot. People complaining about not made in the USA or the factories of companies in other countries. It is global economics and it is happening. Nothing can change that. I buy USA made knives. Chinese knives of Kershaw, Spyderco. I trust the people in the company (Thomas and Sal for example) after reading and seeing their responses to situations like these over the years.

We have limited amount of knives and since this is a hobby and one that means something personal to me I buy what I like from the manufacturers I have come to respect. If I were to apply a South African made only knife I would be limited in my hobby. I still buy South African made knives to support our makers, even though they are more expensive and import almost all the steel and g10 etc as we have limited producers (Though our country export more raw material then most other countries).

Thomas the Blitz looks great! Should pick one up for my dad.

 

[riffraff]

[...] America invented the sweatshop [...]

[...] and you are correct, the American Companies invented the sweatshop.

Neither of you have a very firm grasp of history, do you?

You might want to read Charles Kingsley's "Cheap Clothes and Nasty."

You might be able to download it on your Chinese computer.

 

[J.Mattson]

You might be able to download it on your Chinese computer.

Mines South Korean

But lets not forget that in a short time Kershaw is going to be pumping out a number of great designs at incredible price points.:thumbup:

 

[Ankerson]

Neither of you have a very firm grasp of history, do you?

You might want to read Charles Kingsley's "Cheap Clothes and Nasty."

You might be able to download it on your Chinese computer.

I think you had better read up on YOUR history.

The Labor Unions got started in America due to the horrid working conditions of the American factory workers in the past. They were no better than slaves.

They were the very definition of sweatshops.

 

[2brothers]

You're dodging the answer.

mike

 

[Ankerson]

You're dodging the answer.

mike

I wasn't Dodging it at all, the same things were going on in America at the same time, and earlier.

 

[stabman]

And what percentage of the Chinese population has cars Esav? Furthermore what percentage of the car owners work in factories? It's only the small richer class that has the cars, like the factory owners, not the factory workers.

You call me ignorant but I'm telling it like it is, while you falsely try to paint Chinese factories as good places to work that pay living wages.

This is becoming annoyingly political.

 

[Sep]

Oh you mean cutting every place you can and putting more on the workers that are still there? Cutting payroll by 20% and expecting the workers to make up the slack plus 15% this Quarter, then add on another 10% next quarter and so on. Cutting the benefits back, not giving raises or decreasing them, hiring at lower wages and firing the higher paid workers. Therefore treating them like machines instead of people.

Outsourcing labor overseas and laying off thousands of American workers.

The problem with American Corporations is they have to see an increase in profit every quarter over the past quarter. After awhile they have to start cutting quality and manpower or the profits will flatten out.

Also during times like these the Corps treat their people like crap because they know they can't just go out and get another job, this happens all the time every time Unemployment rates go up. It's like either do all that extra work or work all those extra hours if they are Salary or get fired period.

Yes I know how it works, I have been in Management almost my whole working life. I am ashamed to admit it because it's just Pathetic the things I have seen and had to do over the years.

THAT IS CORP GREED!!!!!

But yes a lot of the blame goes on the Consumer for buying the cheap products and not demanding high quality. It's more about price than quality.

I find it really hard to believe that you're part of management, because you have such shallow grasp of either management or business, let alone marketing.

Companies don't automatically cut product quality to increase profit. A product is sold to a certain target market based on specific quality, price, distribution channel, and a myriad of other factors. When you reduce the quality of the same product over time to increase profit, you're in fact not hitting the target market, which means ceding that market segment to your competitors. Companies that do this don't last long.

Kershaw is moving into the $19-$39 market by introducing new products designed from the ground up to fit. They can't just reduce the quality of the Leek to hit that market, because that would be stupid.

It's not all about high quality or low price, it's about selling products at the quality level and price people willing to spend money on.

Perhaps I've been lucky to work with good companies, because every one of them has a good grasp of realistic worker productivity. If they expect you to be 15% more productive, it's because they have provided tools / technologies to make it happen. They are smart enough to know that expecting additional productivity without improving the process and the tool will only reduce quality.

Some people refuse to learn because they think they're entitled to do their job their own way, even if it's an obsolete and inefficient way; I'm glad to see these people go. Others are eager to learn and embrace the challenge; they ended up doing their job better, gaining new marketable skills, getting promoted, or moving into a better position elsewhere.

Bottom line: consumers want either the best quality for the price or the lowest price for the quality, companies want the highest profit, and workers want the highest pay and benefit for the job. Somebody has got to give, and in vast majority of cases it's not consumers.

 

[Ankerson]

I find it really hard to believe that you're part of management, because you have such shallow grasp of either management or business, let alone marketing.

Companies don't automatically cut product quality to increase profit. A product is sold to a certain target market based on specific quality, price, distribution channel, and a myriad of other factors. When you reduce the quality of the same product over time to increase profit, you're in fact not hitting the target market, which means ceding that market segment to your competitors. Companies that do this don't last long.

Kershaw is moving into the $19-$39 market by introducing new products designed from the ground up to fit. They can't just reduce the quality of the Leek to hit that market, because that would be stupid.

It's not all about high quality or low price, it's about selling products at the quality level and price people willing to spend money on.

Perhaps I've been lucky to work with good companies, because every one of them has a good grasp of realistic worker productivity. If they expect you to be 15% more productive, it's because they have provided tools / technologies to make it happen. They are smart enough to know that expecting additional productivity without improving the process and the tool will only reduce quality.

Some people refuse to learn because they think they're entitled to do their job their own way, even if it's an obsolete and inefficient way; I'm glad to see these people go. Others are eager to learn and embrace the challenge; they ended up doing their job better, gaining new marketable skills, getting promoted, or moving into a better position elsewhere.

Bottom line: consumers want either the best quality for the price or the lowest price for the quality, companies want the highest profit, and workers want the highest pay and benefit for the job. Somebody has got to give, and in vast majority of cases it's not consumers.

No I agree, I wasn't pointing out a certain Manufacture or just Manufacturing in general at all. I was speaking in General terms overall about the Corp way of doing business in General, although there will be exceptions (Better Companies with good ethics).

I do know about Marketing, I just choose to leave it out of the discussion and focused more on the ethics of Corp Management in General sense they are separate in most Corps. Marketing is usually it's own division or Dept.

It could be just about any field, Manufacturing, various retail chains etc.

I haven't ever worked for a good Corp IMO because they all did ALL of the above and worse.

In my experience they make the job harder, pushing even harder over time with no improvements offered. Other words do more with less, nothing changes other than more work with less resources available to get the job done.

Or they try something new and it really doesn't work they try and force it to work making it even worse instead of back stepping to a known proven way of doing it that does work better. Very bad middle Management, but then that's were most of the Big Corps real problems are.