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Here ya go...
When googling that address, you get...
http://www.hktdc.com/manufacturers-suppliers/WISDOM-INTERNATIONAL/en/1X08BQ2S/
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Kevin John Knife
- Thread starter Rennd
- Start date
Here ya go...
When googling that address, you get...
http://www.hktdc.com/manufacturers-suppliers/WISDOM-INTERNATIONAL/en/1X08BQ2S/
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As someone who buys item off eBay quite often, let me just say, if you get scammed on eBay then it's pretty much your own fault.
eBay gets a bad rap here because, yes, it's full scumbags that not only sell knock offs but they also advertise it as the real thing. However, there are also alot of "mom & pop" type businesses that make a living selling knives and other wares off eBay. I'm always able to find deals on eBay from those types of sellers. Last week I bought the new Spyderco Manix II s110v of a seller on eBay. No preorder, no waiting, I saw it listed up for the same price as all the other big name knife vendors and ordered it, and he had more than a few in stock. A few days later, I had it. They get the limited editions direct just like the other vendors. So don't write off eBay completely.
Just a tip, don't buy an American custom knife from a seller in China! If the country of origin is China, or Ukraine, or any other location that would otherwise seem far off, and they're selling an American made knife, production or custom, don't buy it. Secondly, only buy from reputable sellers that have alot of positive feedback and a return policy. Sure there could be some punk kid in New York, who knowingly lists a knock off as a Chris Reeve in an attempt to make a quick buck. But I guarantee you they'll have no positive reputation at all. If you use common sense I don't see how you can be scammed on eBay.
Just sayin...
eBay gets a bad rap here because, yes, it's full scumbags that not only sell knock offs but they also advertise it as the real thing. However, there are also alot of "mom & pop" type businesses that make a living selling knives and other wares off eBay. I'm always able to find deals on eBay from those types of sellers. Last week I bought the new Spyderco Manix II s110v of a seller on eBay. No preorder, no waiting, I saw it listed up for the same price as all the other big name knife vendors and ordered it, and he had more than a few in stock. A few days later, I had it. They get the limited editions direct just like the other vendors. So don't write off eBay completely.
Just a tip, don't buy an American custom knife from a seller in China! If the country of origin is China, or Ukraine, or any other location that would otherwise seem far off, and they're selling an American made knife, production or custom, don't buy it. Secondly, only buy from reputable sellers that have alot of positive feedback and a return policy. Sure there could be some punk kid in New York, who knowingly lists a knock off as a Chris Reeve in an attempt to make a quick buck. But I guarantee you they'll have no positive reputation at all. If you use common sense I don't see how you can be scammed on eBay.
Just sayin...
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In my case, a loved one got me a fake spyderco unknowingly. Common sense aside, a non-knife-person wouldn't know squat about anything you just said.
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I disagree. Buying from reputable sellers with a high feedback scores who also have contact information available and a return policy has nothing to do with being a "knife person".
It's unfortunate that happened, not everyone is aware that fakes knives even exist. So it's understandable how someone who is ignorant of how eBay works would be taken in. But it doesn't change the fact that you should always do business with reputable members. Scammers are everywhere, not just on eBay. It's the buyers' responsibility to always be aware of that fact.
You'll carry a knife to protect against being robbed in the streets, what can you do to avoid being robbed online?
...use common sense.
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Beg to differ. There are plenty of sellers on eBay selling fakes with perfect 100% feedback. Know what you're buying and who you're buying it from. Feedback is only a small part of the story.
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And how much of that perfect feedback do they have? Yes if their one an only review is positive then that's 100%. But thats only half of it. A reputable seller will have thousands of positive 5 star reviews. There is the feedback score (the sum of all positive reviews), and there is the feedback percentage. Both need to be considered. If you know how eBay works and follow these exceedingly simple common sense rules then it's highly unlikely you'll be purposely scammed. You're more likely to be ripped off buying on the forums.
I own three pre-owned knives. The rest were bought from dealers getting the knives direct from the makers.
I don't pirate stuff off the net, so I'm not going to support pirates just because their local laws change the definition of what is considered stealing conveniently to benefit themselves.
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There are regular dealers on eBay too. They aren't any different than any other knife dealers and I've bought from them and been just pleased same as any other online knife shops.
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Here ya go...
When googling that address, you get...
http://www.hktdc.com/manufacturers-suppliers/WISDOM-INTERNATIONAL/en/1X08BQ2S/
Thanks, Blues Bender. When I Google the link you provided, I get a business that's categorized as an "Exporter‚ Wholesaler‚ Mail Order Co.‚ Retailer". Unfortunately, that doesn't tell me where the knives are made or more importantly, what kind of facility they're made in. Until it can be proven otherwise, I'm sticking with my hunch that Kevin John knives are produced by skilled craftsman using modern CNC equipment in professional facilities that more than likely manufacture knives for companies we're all familiar with, knives some of us have in our pockets right now. They're just too well made to be coming out of somebody's garage.
Denial isn't just a river in Africa.
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There are retailers on eBay selling fakes with hundreds of feedback scores at 100%. It's the sort of thing that will get by many eBayers. I don't personally need a 1000's of feedback a on a seller, it's more than that. Knowing what your buying is more important. Knowing what fakes are out there and what they look like. Knowing the difference between a stock photo and an actual item photo. There are some things you just can't buy reliably on EBay. If you do, you take a chance. Even with decent feedback scores. With fakes coming with full papers and boxes, it can be a while before somebody selling fakes gets caught out, and even so they may take a refund to get positive feedback and manage to keep going until somebody bothers to do something about it.
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Yep. STR's statement that sometimes even legitimate sellers can't tell that they're selling fakes sort of says it all. It could get to the point where the only way to know for sure whether or not you're buying a fake is to send every knife you buy to the manufacturer for validation.
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Those sellers with scores in the hundreds are selling knock offs listed as "Kevin John" or whatever else they want to call it. But they're not trying to pass it off as the real thing. They're not actually deceiving their customers into thinking its a real Strider or Sebenza. Even so, if it was an expensive item I'd be more comfortable with a score in the thousands rather than hundreds. It is very very unlikely you'll find a seller with an eBay store that has that kind of reputation established who is deceivingly selling people fakes. But, hey, I could be wrong. Show me an example if you know of one.
Of course knowing what you're buying is important. Thats always the case when buying online where you are unable to hold and examine the item first hand. You make a good point about stock photos vs actual item photos, especially if the item is used or in any condition other than NIB. But again, I'd say that falls under the category of common sense. A poorly photoshopped pixilated image of the item against a white background is another red flag. But I've yet to see that from any established eBay store owner selling production knives.
I'm not saying it's impossible to get conned, but so long as you pay attention to who you're buying from it's unlikely. Scammers are everywhere. I'd say it's even less likely to happen on eBay compared with a privately run website, that doesn't use a banking intermediary (like Paypal), where they can say anything they want on their site and lie about contact information and seller location. Nowadays, anyone can build a professional looking website easily. On eBay you can at least report an item to be counterfeit and often get your money back if the description is purposely misleading.
Maybe there are some items you can't buy reliably on eBay. But it certainly isn't knives and other EDC gear. I've been doing it for years and never had an issue. I know many others on this forum have too.
Many eBay sellers are authorized dealers of production knives. They get the new models and limited editions at the same time many other dealers do. Thats where I got my s110v Manix.
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I'm betting with you. I just bought a Sequel from a Top Rated Plus eBay seller that has a score in the hundreds of thousands and claims that he doesn't sell counterfeits. So I'm hoping I end up with the real thing. I'll inspect it carefully when it arrives, of course. Problem is, I undoubtedly lack the skill to know whether or not it's a fake. So I'll take it to a buddy of mine who works for a Benchmade dealer and have him look it over. If he says it's not a fake, I'll keep it.
My real fear is that it gets to the point where the fakes equal or surpass the originals in terms of fit and finish. Could that happen? Based on what I've seen, I certainly believe it could . . . assuming it hasn't happened already.
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Thanks, Blues Bender. When I Google the link you provided, I get a business that's categorized as an "Exporter‚ Wholesaler‚ Mail Order Co.‚ Retailer". Unfortunately, that doesn't tell me where the knives are made or more importantly, what kind of facility they're made in. Until it can be proven otherwise, I'm sticking with my hunch that Kevin John knives are produced by skilled craftsman using modern CNC equipment in professional facilities that more than likely manufacture knives for companies we're all familiar with, knives some of us have in our pockets right now. They're just too well made to be coming out of somebody's garage.
Denial isn't just a river in Africa.
You're not wrong. The idea that machine shops in China are kids with files and hacksaws just isn't the case. The fact is, they are usually very state-of-the-art facilities that make a plethora of other products. I'm in the circuit board industry and it's the same, when you look at video cards for instance, you'll see eVGA, ASUS, MSI, etc. etc. Fact is, they're usually all made in the same factory, sometimes on the same lines and just assembled differently. Watch knockoffs are the same way, two or three factories make the parts and then they are assembled by any number of different assembly people, sometimes the sellers themselves who just buy boxes of parts and put together different watches. So I can pretty much guarantee that whatever factory makes these "Kevin John" knives probably already makes (either whole knives or parts of knives) other name brand knives that we are familiar with.
Piping them through Hong Kong is typical, particularly with fakes and knockoffs and when trying to legitimize products (people are more apt to buy from Hong Kong or Taiwan than direct from China, even if the product is the same).
Since fighting based on Intellectual Property, Trademarks and Patents is practically useless as we've seen, I've seen a lot more people stigmatizing fakes from China by using the child/near-slave labor aspect as the ploy. Is child/near-slave labor used? In the fake and knockoff market, most certainly it is, but usually only on the very low end stuff. When you see stuff like the knives Kizer is making or the higher-end fakes from "Kevin John" that seem to be properly priced for the materials and quality, more than likely they are using properly paid adult workers because the difference in margin is very little. We're talking about the difference betwee someone being paid $10 a week vs. a couple dollars a week. The same $10/week laborors making a higher end "Kevin John" or a Kizer knife are the same as the ones making a Chinese Kershaw or even a Chinese Spyderco.
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Yep. As far as I'm concerned, the key in discussing fakes is to draw a distinction between their morality and their quality. There is NO ACCEPTABLE ARGUMENT that can be made in favor of thievery and I don't think a single person here would condone it. But to state that the fakes being produced by these thieves are garbage cheapens the moral argument because it's simply not true, and you can't claim a position of moral superiority if it's based on a lie. To my mind, at least, a liar who calls out a thief is the same as the pot calling the kettle black.
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I guess these knock offs could be made in a factory that is making knives for major US knife companies, but I don't think we will ever know that for sure.
I think I remember Sal saying they had visited the Chinese factory that makes their Chinese line of knives, but I guess they could've hid the knock offs if they knew visitors were coming. Have no idea really.
I also think it would be safe to assume that they could have built a factory just for clones. They sell enough to do that, and I would think they have clone factories for all types of goods. Its HUGE business there, and I would think they can easily build a factory just for clones.
Who knows ??? I don't buy knives from China, but if one did it would be something to think about.
I think I remember Sal saying they had visited the Chinese factory that makes their Chinese line of knives, but I guess they could've hid the knock offs if they knew visitors were coming. Have no idea really.
I also think it would be safe to assume that they could have built a factory just for clones. They sell enough to do that, and I would think they have clone factories for all types of goods. Its HUGE business there, and I would think they can easily build a factory just for clones.
Who knows ??? I don't buy knives from China, but if one did it would be something to think about.
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You're right, Ken. There's no way to know for sure. But again, the only way to avoid the possibility altogether is not to buy knives (or anything else that could be a knockoff) from China . . . assuming you can tell that they come from China, that is.
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Be my guest. 
Then, if you decide to do that, dissect the knife when you receive it and let us know what you find out. That way, at least, you'll be able to speak from your own personal first-hand experience. Keep in mind, however, that not all clones are created equal. If you want to verify what STR said earlier, you'd be better off purchasing one of the higher-priced fakes and giving it a thorough examination. Based on what I've seen, they're the ones that are the most difficult (if not practically impossible) to distinguish from the originals.
Then, if you decide to do that, dissect the knife when you receive it and let us know what you find out. That way, at least, you'll be able to speak from your own personal first-hand experience. Keep in mind, however, that not all clones are created equal. If you want to verify what STR said earlier, you'd be better off purchasing one of the higher-priced fakes and giving it a thorough examination. Based on what I've seen, they're the ones that are the most difficult (if not practically impossible) to distinguish from the originals.
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Ok, here's an example. Spot the fake...
The southard is the fake one, but my point is, is that it was listed on eBay as a legit southard. I never saw the listing since my mom bought it for my b-day, but she knows nothing about knives. She just heard me talk about a southard before, and knows that "that spyder company" make them
The thing came in a legit spyderco box with legit paperwork and everything. And I had no clue it was fake until I noticed someone else's.
Put it this way, if someone showed you this knife, you'd think it was legit unless:
a) they told you it was fake
b) you've seen a fake before
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