Knife for defence against wild critters ?

Well... back on topic...

80yo guy takes on 1000lb bear with a knife... or rather he had a knife but the bear decided he didn't want him using it. http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=9634649523

Then we have this one... another knife fight... but the guy actually knocks the bear out... by punching it in the head...
http://badassoftheweek.com/genemoe.html

Mamma bear attacks a guy to defend her cub.... but she loses to the guys 79yo Father, who attacks the Grizzly Mamma bear for attacking his cub...
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/wanyandie.html

The Mamma bear runs away.

Whats interesting is most of the successful bear defenses I can find actually don't involve a knife being the deciding factor.

Previously I thought a knife was better then barehands... yet most of the examples end up being people "Bear" handed and winning.

I actually think some people vastly underestimate the capacity of the human body to sustain damage and continue functioning and how powerful the refusal to give up is.
 
Woods Walker said:
We are done. You are the first person to be placed on my ignore list. Congrats.
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Can you put me on this list as well?
As I see it he had only good intentions and wanted to help you.
I wouldn't put pics of my kids in the net and especially not link them to their names and locations. I would tell others not to do so too if I care about them.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Can you put me on this list as well?
As I see it he had only good intentions and wanted to help you.
I wouldn't put pics of my kids in the net and especually not link them to their names and locations. I would tell others not to do so too if I care about them.
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Nope. You're stuck with me. :D Back on topic. The picture and video I posted of the crowbar and sledgehammer which garnered personal attack were created by me. Original content not Google search engine junk. Also that hike occurred in an area which has bears and there is a discussion of the potential use of heavy implements for bear defense within the video. It was around 11 PM in a pitch black trail with the possibility of actual bears. Like Pitdog's photo of his spear it's real world. More so than much of what has been posted here. Actual outings, actual experiences.

I think this thread has a fun nature which I hate to see spoiled. :)
 
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Phoynix said:
Well... back on topic...

80yo guy takes on 1000lb bear with a knife... or rather he had a knife but the bear decided he didn't want him using it. http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=9634649523

Then we have this one... another knife fight... but the guy actually knocks the bear out... by punching it in the head...
http://badassoftheweek.com/genemoe.html

Mamma bear attacks a guy to defend her cub.... but she loses to the guys 79yo Father, who attacks the Grizzly Mamma bear for attacking his cub...
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/wanyandie.html

The Mamma bear runs away.

Whats interesting is most of the successful bear defenses I can find actually don't involve a knife being the deciding factor.

Previously I thought a knife was better then barehands... yet most of the examples end up being people "Bear" handed and winning.

I actually think some people vastly underestimate the capacity of the human body to sustain damage and continue functioning and how powerful the refusal to give up is.
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Supercool the old shepherd. Kicked the bears bolls. :eek:
 
Phoynix said:
Whats interesting is most of the successful bear defenses I can find actually don't involve a knife being the deciding factor.
Click to expand...

Well now that is interesting. But we should never let a lack of real world examples detract from the patina of realism we place on the largely hypothetical. :D
 
the fact people are ending up having to resort to fists because they get the knife knocked away also doesn't suggest its a negative to have one either, or that some of the damage they did do with the knife didn't help in driving the bear off/knocking it out/killing it.

It seems to be frame of mind over anything else on who survives, the kind of person that just does not give up and as cliche as it may be... goes down fighting.
Which isnt the kind of person that expects to lose before its started like some people in the thread.

Smithhammer said:
Well now that is interesting. But we should never let a lack of real world examples detract from the patina of realism we place on the largely hypothetical. :D
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Phoynix said:
It seems to be frame of mind over anything else on who survives, the kind of person that just does not give up and as cliche as it may be... goes down fighting.
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Agreed. Which suggests that, as with so many other "survival" topics, proper attitude is probably far more important than what knife one if holding in their hand.

Phoynix said:
Which isnt the kind of person that expects to lose before its started like some people in the thread.
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Can you please show me what posts in this thread exemplify that "some people" expect this outcome?
 
Just have a pet moutain lion and carry an opinel.
[video=youtube;ABToSNkdPkk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABToSNkdPkk[/video]
 
B34NS said:
Just have a pet moutain lion and carry an opinel.
[video=youtube;ABToSNkdPkk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABToSNkdPkk[/video]
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A pet cougar is a fantastic idea. For the most part knives and spray are passive defense methods. Having 3 or 4 cougars working the area like a pack of beagles chasing rabbits could take care of biz before an attack occurs. Here is one thing which I noticed watching the video. I think they're wrong about bears hibernating. Even during winter I take precautions for example on this trip:

1. Carefully look for signs of past or present bear activity. Using my decades of bushcraft and hunting experience I came to the conclusion there could be bears in this area.



2. Use the bear box if there is one. If not follow the recommended procedures for the area. Even in winter I tossed my food in the box.



3. Air out after cooking. During summer I will often cook a bit away from camp but in winter with the heated shelter it's going to happen inside. Bears are less active but still I will air it out putting food and trash in a box or hung before turning in. Here I am airing the tent out using melted snow to boil my pot clean. A clean camp in all seasons will help but like that kid in Ohio sometimes the highly unlikely can happen even if precautions are taken.



Walk naked and bear (pun and spelling intended) foot in the snow around your winter camp. This will intimidate bears. Well actually ignore what I just wrote.



I am not sure how easily they can come out of their sleep. Maybe the term is estivation but not sure.

Edit:

Ok just checked online.

"Some animals hibernate or go into a deep sleep as an adaptation to the cold
months of winter. Hibernation is different from normal sleep. During hibernation, an
animal seems to be dead. Its metabolism slows down and its body temperature drops. Its
heartbeat slows to only two or three beats a minute. Since its bodily processes are so
slow, it needs very little food to stay alive. Some animals which hibernate are toads,
skunks, ground squirrels, bees, and bats. Bears sleep during the winter, but they are not
true hibernators. They wake up when they hear loud noises. Some animals estivate, or go
into a deep sleep as an adaptation to the hot, dry months of summer. During estivation,
an animal’s heartbeat and breathing slow down. During estivation, an animal does not
grow or move. It does not need to eat because it is not using much energy. Some animals
burrow underground, where it is cooler, before they begin to estivate. Some animals
which estivate are reptiles, bees, hedgehogs, frogs, toads, and earthworms."

So I wonder if they look for grub in the middle of winter or just wake up when annoyed. In any case I will take the same precautions. On a side note I was attacked by a critter during that outing. By the grace of God I came out on top using my bear (pun and spelling intended) hands. You don't even want to know how this went down. :eek:

 
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Every single person who thinks its silly to even consider defending against wild animals.
Go though the thread... its quite evident the people who think this thread is silly from the get go, if a human even THINKS of defending themselves against a bear...

Even woods walker admits people(himself included) are lampooning this thread.

Lets also focus on the whole "theory" side...
You wanted to talk about practical over theory...

Is the view that a knife is pointless because a bear... is a fucking bear... a FACT or a THEORY?

Its a THEORY.
Hypothetical...

Of all the evidence I could find the THEORY that a knife was useless was never suggested, enough data does not exist that says a knife is effective either, with incidence happening where the knife was knocked out of the persons hand during the course of the fight. Which itself could suggest grip is more important then the blade length or shape in regards to this thread which purpose is to find a "GOOD" knife for wild animal defense.

This is PRACTICAL real world data.

The only data on survival of predatory bear attacks that is consistent is the refusal of the person under attack to give up the fight even when mortally wounded.
Thinking that a knife against a bear is pointless due to the power and weight of a bear does suggest a person lacks that will to survive no matter what, they have already mentally surrendered to the idea that the bear will win.

Though the entire thread not a single fact has been presented that would suggest defending your self with a knife against wild animals in a last ditch effort for survival is counter productive. Also if you read the thread you will notice I'm quite capable of changing my view point... Such as I stated previously I thought trying to fight a bear barehanded was stupid... Well evidence exists that is not the case and I presented that evidence despite it contradicting what I previously thought.

The data in regards to having knife suggests it doesn't seem to hurt none having one, even if its not exactly effective either. Still bear attacks do exist where a knife was used to kill the bear along with attacks where a knife was used and the bear still killed the human.

Lastly unless we are going to take an immoral step for science where we put humans against angry bears in a fight to the death, much of the topic must remain theory.

While woods walker thinks running around the woods with a sledge hammer is practical know how in regards to fighting bears... its not.
If it was the number of star pickets I have belted into submission with a sledge hammer and tied up with 5 strands of high tensile wire though my lifetime would make me a bear slaying god!:thumbup:

Smithhammer said:
Agreed. Which suggests that, as with so many other "survival" topics, proper attitude is probably far more important than what knife one if holding in their hand.



Can you please show me what posts in this thread exemplify that "some people" expect this outcome?
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Woods Walker said:
A pet cougar is a fantastic idea. For the most part knives and spray are passive defense methods. Having 3 or 4 cougars working the area like a pack of beagles chasing rabbits could take care of biz before an attack occurs. Here is one thing which I noticed watching the video. I think they're wrong about bears hibernating.
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Or even a whole cougar sled team. :thumbup:

You're right about them moving around more in winter than traditional thought would have us think. I've crossed paths with a few lumbering sow while out backcountry snowboarding. I'm sure they were hungry, but didn't bother us any. I'm happy to see those bear boxes catching on! They're mandatory in yosemite, that or bear cans. They'll fine you if you have food out unattended or trash not secured. Which is good, since bears that interact with people usually get shot since there's not a ton of funding for trap/rerelease programs. We have a few counties that do it, but not many. I'm heading back into bear country in a few weekends, I'll probably arm myself with some black maple hill. Liquid courage.
 
B34NS said:
Or even a whole cougar sled team. :thumbup:

You're right about them moving around more in winter than traditional thought would have us think. I've crossed paths with a few lumbering sow while out backcountry snowboarding. I'm sure they were hungry, but didn't bother us any. I'm happy to see those bear boxes catching on! They're mandatory in yosemite, that or bear cans. They'll fine you if you have food out unattended or trash not secured. Which is good, since bears that interact with people usually get shot since there's not a ton of funding for trap/rerelease programs. We have a few counties that do it, but not many. I'm heading back into bear country in a few weekends, I'll probably arm myself with some black maple hill. Liquid courage.
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Could you imagine the mayhem and madness of a cougar sled team. :eek:After my last few run-ins I am cracking out the bells which for years have been only been used out of town aka not local trails. Times are changing it would seem. Naturally the drunks on the road during the ride there are a far greater risk but all alone 3 am in the hills that fact isn't physiologically relevant when awaken by some harmless critter milling about the camp. Odds are lots of coons and possum have been imagined into massive bears by half sleeping campers in their bags.
 
Woods Walker said:
Could you imagine the mayhem and madness of a cougar sled team. :eek:After my last few run-ins I am cracking out the bells which for years have been only been used out of town aka not local trails. Times are changing it would seem. Naturally the drunks on the road during the ride there are a far greater risk but all alone 3 am in the hills that fact isn't physiologically relevant when awaken by some harmless critter milling about the camp. Odds are lots of coons and possum have been imagined into massive bears by half sleeping campers in their bags.
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I could totally imagine it. I'd just mush with a giant laser pointer. Watchout Iditarod.

I hear ya, especially when it's 3am and the temperature drops, I'm much less convinced to get up and see who's visiting. The occasional "hey bear" wakeup from a deadsleep is always fun too.
 
Phoynix said:
Every single person who thinks its silly to even consider defending against wild animals.
Go though the thread... its quite evident the people who think this thread is silly from the get go, if a human even THINKS of defending themselves against a bear...
Click to expand...

I don't think there are any members here saying it's silly to think about or be prepared for wild animal attacks. Every engagement with wildlife will be unique to the person, the individual animal, and circumstance. There have been many great suggestions on bears. Those tools may also in some cases be applied other predatory species.

The best is to be situationally aware. The second would be to know how to identify a species, have some familiarity with their behavior. With bears it's basically just look really intimidating and loud while standing your ground. The bear may try to close distance, with black bears this is a bluff, but we know with brown bears distance is all you have (unless you're packin', but still...). Say the bear is in predatory mode. This is where bear spray comes into play. If used correctly, will help you maintain that distance. There's a reason park rangers, wardens, and experienced campers bring it along. It works if you have used it before and know how it works. It's imperative not just for bear spray, but to have actual hands on use with your gear to build muscle memory. That way if you're caught off gaurd, you just react. The stories of people who have survived being mauled by bears or have killed them with knives is both horrific and endearing, but pack an important truth. That knives are tools, and that only in the "fight for your life" moment do you employ it as a last resort.

The reason I feel some members have been critical is that if you are learning something that will not help you in a real situation, then you are learning to endanger yourself and others and become one of these stories. We have some pretty good collective wisdom on here, and some really fun collective sillyness. Survival is not just the will to survive, but also about humility.
 
Yep.....makes me just wanna grab a Puukko and jump right in....

[video=youtube;JzwbOZKfrUQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzwbOZKfrUQ[/video]
 
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