Knife for the wife to carry

AllenC:

"I'm curious, where did you get this information?
I don't believe it to be true."

This statement alone has proven to me how lacking you are in common sense and practical knowledge, and that I have wasted my time discussing this issue with you.

"Maybe some other heathcare workers, or firefighters, or LEOs can post their opinions on the notion."

Artfully Martial already has. Read his post above.

"I first time that I used a knife on a guy it was a couple of years before I joined the Army (I was 16 at the time).
I was a pudgy teen and he was quite a bit bigger and stronger than me and that's all I'm going to say about that."

To use your own words: "I don't believe it to be true." I call keyboard warrior.

As for the instructors I listed, I've trained with several of them, and trained with their instructors. You didn't even know they existed until I listed them here. You, on the other hand, have listed little in terms of your knowledge on the subject.

As for Charles, then take lessons from BTK. He's stabbed and slashed many an innocent person. Or take lessons from Manson's family. Based on your ridiculous notion, they're knife-fighting experts. LOL!! Silly man.

As for the thread reference, I'm talking about possible results in a knife fight, not my personal intent to kill, unlike you, who's more than happy to talk about fighting a grown man with a knife. How absurd and juvenile.

As for guns and swords, those are BATTLEFIELD weapons, used in war by professional soldiers for one purpose only: to kill.

With knives, as a civilian, you have the option not to kill, but simply to disarm or what have you. Is that clear?

As for you having "been there, done that", as I said earlier, this doesn't prove your opinion to be true, as your lack of knowledge has proven quite the opposite.

I've made myself quite clear on several occassions during this discussion, and considering how absurd and utterly illogical your argument has become, and to see how unqualified you are to continue in any coherent way, I feel that it is a waste of my time to continue discussing this with you.

I have more important matters to attend to. I wish you good luck on your journey.
 
Can it guys.

Way O/T.

Your both trained you say, so why is neither of you walking away?

Seems to me, niether of you guys know to do this, this leads me to believe, your both spewing rhetoric jabs, you know that **** that happens just before a fist fight.

So use your training,dont insult, or make worse, just walk away.

Run forrest, run, live to fight a good fight another day.

WR
 
4 Ranges,

Do you even realize what you have said in this and other threads?

So, the vast majority of criminals are psychotic or drug-addicted?
Does that include speeders, jay-walkers, tax evaders, smugglers, con men, identity thieves, cyber criminals, child molesters, date rapists, burglars, car thieves, etc.
You see, you're wrong in your statement that "most criminals are psychotic or drug-addicted".
Maybe you meant "most violent criminals"?
Just be man enough to admit that your statement was incorrect.


And, yes, Artfully Martial did share his experience concerning victims of multiple knife wounds.
Read what he said again.
He indicated that he had worked in an ER for a while and had seen only ONE guy survive such an attack.
He stated that this man was NOT the norm.
That's alot different from your claim that it is a common occurance.


So you have NOT trained with every single person that you listed, right?
So you have no way of knowing if all of those guys are competent instructors from firsthand knowledge, right?
Just be man enough to admit it.

It does'nt matter that I don't know them, it matters that you don't know all of them personally either.
You just picked a bunch of names to list--some guys that you know, and some other guys that you have had zero personal experience with, right?
Just be man enough to admit it.



Lessons from a serial killer?
No, I don't think the BTK killer is a "knife-fighting" expert.
He never did any "knife-fighting" did he?
I mean he never engaged another person knife-to-knife did he?
It's not a gunfight unless everyone involved is armed with guns, and it's not a knifefight unless everyone involved is armed with knives.
What he did was commit murder with a knife, and it does'nt take any special skill or training to do that.


"As for the thread reference, I'm talking about possible results in a knife fight, not my personal intent to kill, unlike you, who's more than happy to talk about fighting a grown man with a knife. How absurd and juvenile."

4 Ranges, are you even reading what I have typed?
Please post my words where I said that I have an "intent to kill"?
And I never said anything about "fighting a grown man with a knife".
I'm not a knife-fighter.
I stabbed a grown man with a knife, and it did'nt take years of martial arts training to learn how to stab someone, heck, it's almost instinctive.
If you're going to respond to what I said, then at least get what I said right!


"As for guns and swords, those are BATTLEFIELD weapons, used in war by professional soldiers for one purpose only: to kill."

So, you think that guns are only battlefield weapons?

So, you think that guns are only used by professional Soldiers?

So, you think that guns have only one purpose: to kill?

Why do you think this?


"With knives, as a civilian, you have the option not to kill, but simply to disarm or what have you. Is that clear?"

I hope that you don't instruct your students to draw a knife during a fight with the intentions of disarming the attacker.
Of course, you don't really have any real world experience to offer them, right?
But it probably worked great in the dojo...


"As for you having "been there, done that", as I said earlier, this doesn't prove your opinion to be true, as your lack of knowledge has proven quite the opposite."

Once again, you're not even reading what I typed.
I never said that I was a "been there, done that".
I stated that if I were looking for knife-fighting lessons, I would seek out someone who has "been there, done that"....not someone like you, who has never actually did any real world knife-fighting.
Don't get mad, just be man enough to admit that it's true.

Allen.
 
WarRaven,

It's okay.
I actually find 4 Range's replies to be informative.

If anything, it gives the rest of the forum members a little perspective of where another member is coming from.

In the future, when folks read anything that myself or 4 Ranges post, they will be able to decide better if any credibility can be extended.

For example:
If I later posted that XYZ was the very best sword-fighting system in the world, you would think to yourself "wait a minute...AllenC said he did'nt know anything about sword-fighting", and so you could ignore my advice.

Or if 4 Ranges posted how easy it is to sever the muscles of an attacker's arm, you would think "wait a minute...4 Ranges has never cut anyone before", and so you could ignore his advice.

Handy knowledge to have IMHO.

And the great thing about the forums is that folks who are not interested in the ongoing discussion need not click on this thread.

Allen.
 
epO, sorry for the thread hijack.......
Some of what has been discussed IMO has a value for anyone who hopes to
use a knife in a self defense mode though. I hope youfind the knife that you
would like your wife to stow away in her purse on a daily basis.


And 4 Ranges, in your post discussing how your students trained to defend
themselves against a knife wielding "attacker, you mentioned something like
"they were hit about 4 times in the chest and upper arm area".

That is interesting to me because it may dispel a thought that I had about
knife defense. In your opinion, if it was a 6 inch blade that landed those hits
would that have stopped the student/defender? 4 cuts especially on the arm
may just stop the whole thing. Is that view incorrect?
 
Hi fixer:

the 4 cuts or so they received were slashes upper body and arms. Which don't necessarily have stopping power (unless it's an extremely powerful slash underneath the tricep), especially if they're slashing at layers of clothing. Slashes with a medium sized knife do leave horrific scars, but they don't necessarily stop a determined opponent, especially if the target areas are muscular, like the chest or arms. Throat or eyes are a different story though, but my armed student didn't land those particular shots.

Had they been 4 thrusts to the upper body, there's a high likelihood that my unarmed student would have been stopped, as it would have either punctured a lung or reached the heart, especially with a 5 inch knife.

It's an interesting subject because the rules change depending on length of knife, profile of knife, layers of clothing, the types of strikes that were delivered, the type and length of the weapon the attacker is carrying, etc.
 
I wonder what effect real slices to the chest and arm muscles would have had on the unarmed student's ability to deliver strikes?

If someone had the muscles of their arm and chest cut, could they effectively strike and block after the cutting?

Allen.
 
:D

Something else may be the grip used aswell.

Say the armed student had held it in a Ice pick grip,maybe one in each hand, an actually used thier fists and knives as rakes ect...

Be a lot more then standing there with a Q-tip imho, that does not instill confidence nor a good balance.

Sorry i blew there a couple times, i like both you meatheads, just didn't want to see a slug fest if ya know what i mean. :D

Peace out

WR
 
Lone Hunter said:
No we won't watch anyone get beat. But if we're diapatched to a shooting, stabbing ,assault( and with a murder rate 4x's NYC's its often). We cut the lights and sirens and wait at the end of the street till the PD has cleared the scene and said its ok to come into the scene.

In fact I'm on my way in now, and over the weekend we had 3 murders and 5 people stabbed, could be a rock'in night.
Click to expand...

Lone,

It sure doesn't sound like you live out in the boonies! I almost think if I were there I would move to a safer place. Where do you work anyway? Sounds like Miami/NYC/Philly, etc. Ouch!!!

Okay getting back to the issue at hand. Here is what I like for EDC that might be of some value to the "Queen of the Castle". Not cheap but very well constructed. It is called Protech Godfather and comes in a Godson version also. Their Runt model is also very interesting for a smaller knife.


http://www.protechknives.com/default.asp

If you have never seen the video knife website it is pretty cool with lots of different models shown in actual use.

Here is my favorite. Listen to the "THWACK" when he opens it!!! I ask you, "Is that opening noise intimidating or what?" It just makes me think of someone racking a 12 gauge round in a Remington 870! Now that's my idea of "self defense"! Just that sound should give the bad person pause don't you think?

http://videoknife.com/auto-protech-godfather.html

http://videoknife.com/auto-protech-runtgold.html

I'm not surprised that only one person responded to my question about what knife type is the most deadly or where the most serious incidences occur. That is an interesting fact considereing the nature of many of these posts.

http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expsm_syn

.
 
"I'm not surprised that only one person responded to my question about what knife type is the most deadly or where the most serious incidences occur. That is an interesting fact considereing the nature of many of these posts."

There's a whole thread called "The Ultimate Fighting Knife" that has opinions posted on this.

As to where exactly the most serious incidences occur...I heard Kingston, Jamaica is a nice place to visit.
 
4 Ranges said:
"I'm not surprised that only one person responded to my question about what knife type is the most deadly or where the most serious incidences occur. That is an interesting fact considereing the nature of many of these posts."

There's a whole thread called "The Ultimate Fighting Knife" that has opinions posted on this.

As to where exactly the most serious incidences occur...I heard Kingston, Jamaica is a nice place to visit.
Click to expand...

It not "opinions" that count as much as "facts", IMHO.
 
DGG:

Are you referring to that question you posted about which knife has been considered the deadliest via use in actual crimes? I thought you were talking about something else.

I think I answered that one: kitchen knife.
 
4 Ranges said:
DGG:

Are you referring to that question you posted about which knife has been considered the deadliest via use in actual crimes? I thought you were talking about something else.

I think I answered that one: kitchen knife.
Click to expand...


Yes, you were the only one who even tried and you hit it correctly according to FBI statistics on knife crimes. You win an "atta-boy" award. So most of the danger is in the home not out in public or on the "mean streets".

Thoughts? You'll love this thread.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127617

Here are some links that show weapon percentages used in fatal attacks.
http://timlambert.org/category/guns/knives/
 
4 Ranges said:
Hi fixer:

the 4 cuts or so they received were slashes upper body and arms. Which don't necessarily have stopping power (unless it's an extremely powerful slash underneath the tricep), especially if they're slashing at layers of clothing. Slashes with a medium sized knife do leave horrific scars, but they don't necessarily stop a determined opponent, especially if the target areas are muscular, like the chest or arms. Throat or eyes are a different story though, but my armed student didn't land those particular shots.

Had they been 4 thrusts to the upper body, there's a high likelihood that my unarmed student would have been stopped, as it would have either punctured a lung or reached the heart, especially with a 5 inch knife.

It's an interesting subject because the rules change depending on length of knife, profile of knife, layers of clothing, the types of strikes that were delivered, the type and length of the weapon the attacker is carrying, etc.
Click to expand...

Knife "defense" 101 is a slash is just a prelude to a thrust.

Did the attackers chain their attacks in a free sparring style? did they use
a military stance for instance? did the defender know that the attack was
coming? And woman were pants with no pockets anyone here consider that
her blade may have to be IWB?

And while we discuss all of these things, for epO's wife it may just boil down
to "that's pretty" and then she will carry it. ( don't laugh a Bro's girlfriend
would not touch a pistol until she saw a mother of pearl handled ruger mk 2)
That is why one should discuss this with one's lady, otherwise it's the dresser
drawer for that knife......
 
Aloha!

My wifey has a Burg. Jester on her keychain and carries a Pink SE Cricket. She likes the fact that it's a linerlock. The Spyderco frontlock "one handed closing" was something she would not do! :rolleyes:

God bless :cool:
 
allenC said:
4 Ranges,

Do you even realize what you have said in this and other threads?

So, the vast majority of criminals are psychotic or drug-addicted?
Click to expand...

Actually I believe a good portion, maybe most crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol. I don't mean jaywalking or speeding, but the things most people associate with the word 'crime'.
 
fixer27 said:
Knife "defense" 101 is a slash is just a prelude to a thrust.

Did the attackers chain their attacks in a free sparring style? did they use
a military stance for instance? did the defender know that the attack was
coming? And woman were pants with no pockets anyone here consider that
her blade may have to be IWB?

And while we discuss all of these things, for epO's wife it may just boil down
to "that's pretty" and then she will carry it. ( don't laugh a Bro's girlfriend
would not touch a pistol until she saw a mother of pearl handled ruger mk 2)
That is why one should discuss this with one's lady, otherwise it's the dresser
drawer for that knife......
Click to expand...

They did chain their attacks. Instructed to be ultra aggressive (they were using no lie blades with the lipstick marking) so that the unarmed student knew how it would feel like to be truly ATTACKED. I'm not sure what you mean by a "military" stance, but they did lean more towards a styers type stance (which I don't advise for knife-fighting). The unarmed student "knew" that the attack was going to be aggressive, but nothing else. It was free form style.

A lot of what threw off the armed attacker was the unarmed student's:

1) Footwork - stayed more upright, took shorter steps, so that he was literally 4 steps ahead of the "styers" type stance.

2) Chasse bas - this is a very painful kick to the knee from savate (I teach savate also). This kick is practically designed for the styers stance, since it takes advantage of that stance's lack of mobility. With the attacker's weight set mostly on his front leg, receiving a chasse bas is very, VERY painful. Why didn't the armed student just slice at the leg? Because the unarmed student's rapid footwork (also from savate) threw off the attacker's timing.

3) Control of centerline - the unarmed students were instructed to keep their hands up at all times, but to also keep their forearms in tighter as the opponent approached, thereby protecting the vital targets that are all along the centerline (eyes, throat, heart, solar plexus, abdomen, etc.). This made the armed student's attack more predictable, as they had a tendency to slash AROUND this type of defense. But as their slashes got wider, the more they opened themselves up, the more they became vulnerable to being timed.

I just want to add: I'm a huge believer in using a knife in extreme SD situations, particularly against multiple opponents or multiple armed opponents.

But this particular exercise showed an interesting phenomenom: it is also possible for a "knife fighter" to lose to an unarmed person, depending on the scenario, and depending on the level of training.
 
Here's an interesting story:

This story of golden aged warriors brought to you by www.9news.com : "BOULDER COUNTY - Investigators say no arrests are likely in fatal attack that left a suspected burglar dead.

Additional Resources... Video: 9News Reporter Carrie McClure says a couple living near Boulder attacked and killed a suspected intruder. Oct. 4, 2005. 6 p.m.

When 59-year-old Becci Starr answered her front door she says she was confronted by a masked man who appeared to have a gun.

When the suspect tried to force his way into the home, Starr and her husband, 56-year-old Scott Mattes, decided to fight back.

The incident happened Monday night on Poorman Road, off Sunshine Canyon, about three miles west of Boulder.

Starr fended the man off with a baseball bat and then the man attacked her with a knife, the couple told police. Police say Mattes heard his wife's scream and came to her aid.

Mattes tackled the intruder, took his knife and then stabbed the man during a scuffle, according to the couple. At the same time Starr hit the man with the baseball bat.

Starr called 911 at 10:25 p.m. Boulder County Sheriff's deputies and paramedics arrived ten minutes later.

Upon arrival they found Mattes trying to resuscitate the intruder on the front steps. The man was declared dead a few minutes later.

The couple told officials Mattes began trying to revive the man once he was no longer a threat.

Police ran the suspect's fingerprint through a database and it turned up nothing. They're hoping to get a positive ID from the autopsy Wednesday.

Under Colorado's "make my day" it's legal for a homeowner to use deadly force under certain circumstances. The law, which took effect in 1985, states "any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using deadly physical force...when another person has made unlawful entry...when the occupant believes the other person intends to commit a crime.""
 
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