Knife Making Startup Costs....Need Input/Help

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There's a lot of pessimism in this thread. I appreciate how truly difficult it must be to perfect the knife making process and it is something that interests me greatly. I also appreciate your confidence and how you've taken the time to address all of the negativity in a professional and positive manner. While I do think you'll face some challenges along your endeavor it sounds like this wouldn't be something new for you.

What I'd really like to say is that I like the design you posted and I'm hopeful that you can pull it off. Best of luck.
 
A scale shaped with a roundover bit will be unacceptable to anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge about what a custom knife should be.

When I asked about how the scales would be finished, I wasn't talking about something like poly... I was talking about how you plan to get them to a proper shaped and sanded finish.

I am realizing that even without ever touching steel to a knife grinder, you have it all figured out... so there's no point in a guy like me that's been making knives for 25 years to bother giving you any advice.

Carry on.... :)
 
redhat6161 said:
There's a lot of pessimism in this thread. I appreciate how truly difficult it must be to perfect the knife making process and it is something that interests me greatly.
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Pessimism? I see no pessimism here. Only realistic advice being given to someone who is in way over their head.
 
madupree said:
I cut out the template with a premade template using a guide bushing, then use a roundover bit. Finishing will be done by sealing them with a polyurethane most likely.the blanks will be cut out by wire edm not waterjet or laser and the choil will be finished out by hand. My blades will have a flat grind which from my understanding is 'flat' and your comparison of the the 'magician' you're talking as if the magician has never picked up a single musical instrument. Where as it might actually be a reality of one playing one instrument for half their life and deciding to play another instrument all while knowing the basic concept oof how to handle the instrument, just needin fine tuning in the end.
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Just to clarify, a flat-ground blade is not actually flat in all directions, only from spine to edge. If you lay a straight edge against whatever flat ground outdoors knives you have you will see what Nick means.

There is definitely an amount of finess that goes into getting the grind right, even with the help of a grinding jig.

Also, I'm not sure that I'd recommend working on parts as small as a knife handle on a router table, I think your fingers will be way too close to the cutter without some specialized workholding solution.
 
We all want to see him succeeded.

And we will be impressed with he does.

But it does remind me of a friend who wanted to take up BBQ as a hobby, smoking not grilling which requires a big learning curve. I spent years learning to smoke brisket, ribs and pork butt and he was always up to eat BBQ and watch me at the end finish up and take it out of the smoker.

He thought it cant be that hard...all you do is prep your meat, set the temperature and wait the time and it is good to go.

So he bought the , charcoal, offset woodsmoker and the brisket and everything he needed. He read everything he could and decided to do smoke 4 briskets at the same time and it would take about 12 hours.

As the party started what he was sure the briskets would be done by then....because everything he read said that is how long it would take. I tried to give him guidance but he was sure he knew what he was doing.

When the brisket was no where near ready and there were 30 people at his house ready to eat and had already waited 2 hours for the BBQ to finish up....We had to run to get pizza just to feed the quests. We had a good time but he was embarrassed that his first attempt at smoking brisket did not work out.

I stayed with him and this time he was ready do listen. His briskets took 20 hours to complete, not the 12 he thought. While on paper he was sure he had it figured out...what he was not prepared for was all the variables you encounter when smoking for long periods of time.

We had some great smoke brisket the next day and a lot of it for 2 people...lol

I think Mad can do it but I also think it will take him much longer then he imagines and really can not even imagine what he is going to run into that only comes with experience.

But you know I bet we can all think of knifemakers that waterjet their blades, grind with a jig, bead blast their blades and bolt on pre made handles. If your plan is something like that....You probably will pull it off in time.
 
wow, lot's of activity on this thread in a short period of time :-)
I'm watching it with interest as I too am engaging on a mission of knife making "exploration."

my simple and inexperienced thoughts
1) you could get an Esteem grinder ready to go for the same $ investment you are making (some assy required)
2) I agree with Aaron on more investment into a higher quality drill press.
3) In general my understanding is it takes about 20-30 blades to grind before the average person "get's it" . I've been fortunate enough to have been to a a couple of knife-makers who helped give me some confidence to get started. They all basically told me the same thing about the grinding learning curve.

I admire the OP and his willingness to dive right in, but clearly alot of experience is saying to slow down.
I think I read in Bob T's book, he get's asked all the time - how long does it take him to make a knife - about 10 hours and 20 years.

good luck :-)

PS, if you decided to get into some CNC work, give me a call. We have an aerospace machine shop, we are pricey but have alot of capability. :-)
 
FTO_dude said:
Your woodwork experience is showing!


That profit margin is getting thinner by the minute

I think we can all quit it with the metaphors.
We've all said our piece and yeah we honestly dont know the aptitude of madupree. Lets just wait and see
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Actually the profit percentage is just slightly over 200% with all the outsourcing I've figured
 
NickWheeler said:
A scale shaped with a roundover bit will be unacceptable to anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge about what a custom knife should be.

When I asked about how the scales would be finished, I wasn't talking about something like poly... I was talking about how you plan to get them to a proper shaped and sanded finish.

I am realizing that even without ever touching steel to a knife grinder, you have it all figured out... so there's no point in a guy like me that's been making knives for 25 years to bother giving you any advice.

Carry on.... :)
Click to expand...

We all have our idea of what we think a knife would be, with that in mind, I've never held a knife that was completely rounded entirely. And all 20 people that handled the handle at my office with the roundover technique really liked the way it felt.
 
Madupree,

I commented over on KD but jumped in over here to see some more of the back story.

I know you REALLY want this to work. But I have to wonder. Isn't this a lot of trouble to go through to get a contract for the sole purpose of using a SECRET handle material, that you are not willing to provide the details of, which MAY or MAY NOT serve as a functional handle material? Is it a dimensionally stable material? Is it durable under hard use? Will it shatter when dropped? Will it shatter when dropped in subzero temperatures and a person is relying on it? Will it warp when left in somebody's trunk on an August day in south Texas?

Will you be prepared to refund your customer's money if your knife fails?

My next question is, what is the level of expected fit and finish on the part of your customer? So far you've only mentioned grinding--no hand work. So you're talking user-grade belt finishes at best. Is this what the customer wants? Is this what the customer expects? What is the standard here? A custom handmade piece, or commercial factory grade such as TOPS, Meyerco, etc.?

Even some of the guys that have been doing belt finishes for a few years eventually realize that under the surface are some deeper belt scratches that didn't get ground out. They try to refine their skills to fix the problem. You haven't even ground knife #1 yet.

If I can offer a suggestion, find a knifemaker in your area. Spend a weekend with him before you drop coin on tools. Heck, make your jig and then go visit him/her. Make your dozen practice knives--all the way through to finish--and then decide about whether you can fulfill your order.
 
NStricker said:
Madupree,

I commented over on KD but jumped in over here to see some more of the back story.

I know you REALLY want this to work. But I have to wonder. Isn't this a lot of trouble to go through to get a contract for the sole purpose of using a SECRET handle material, that you are not willing to provide the details of, which MAY or MAY NOT serve as a functional handle material? Is it a dimensionally stable material? Is it durable under hard use? Will it shatter when dropped? Will it shatter when dropped in subzero temperatures and a person is relying on it? Will it warp when left in somebody's trunk on an August day in south Texas?

Will you be prepared to refund your customer's money if your knife fails?

My next question is, what is the level of expected fit and finish on the part of your customer? So far you've only mentioned grinding--no hand work. So you're talking user-grade belt finishes at best. Is this what the customer wants? Is this what the customer expects? What is the standard here? A custom handmade piece, or commercial factory grade such as TOPS, Meyerco, etc.?

Even some of the guys that have been doing belt finishes for a few years eventually realize that under the surface are some deeper belt scratches that didn't get ground out. They try to refine their skills to fix the problem. You haven't even ground knife #1 yet.

If I can offer a suggestion, find a knifemaker in your area. Spend a weekend with him before you drop coin on tools. Heck, make your jig and then go visit him/her. Make your dozen practice knives--all the way through to finish--and then decide about whether you can fulfill your order.
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The handle material is a kiln dried wood, it will get stabilized and then it will get sealed, right now this wood is used all over the world in subzero to extreme temperatures.
 
Mad, did you you get the order for another 50 knives that you were hoping to get today?
 
You didn't have on your list but I did see someone mention a respirator. You don't want to breathe in any of that dust. What CAD package do you use?
 
629hugo said:
You didn't have on your list but I did see someone mention a respirator. You don't want to breathe in any of that dust. What CAD package do you use?
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Yes I am going to go ahead and figure in some PPE in my startup costs. I use chief architect.
 
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