Thanks a lot will come back to this lost and tell you for sure
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Recommendation? Knife Sharpener for a beginner
- Thread starter AlexSav
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2018
- Messages
- 219
Ben,
I too am not totally sure... To me it means the edge I am capable of getting off my stones - because that’s all I can get
I can just about manage hair whittling if I am really careful. Not sure how many years it will take me to better that freehand, but it’s sharp enough for me. Does that class as working???
I too am not totally sure... To me it means the edge I am capable of getting off my stones - because that’s all I can get
I can just about manage hair whittling if I am really careful. Not sure how many years it will take me to better that freehand, but it’s sharp enough for me. Does that class as working???
They are good enough, but I like diamonds for heavy grinding, reprofiling, etc
At least the ones that came with my unit!
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2018
- Messages
- 87
Late to the party and not a lot to add other than freehand would be my preferred method. Unfortunately I have a condition that affects my dexterity in my joints. Stones require practice and development of muscle memory to achieve proper angles.
I never was good with a stone, and went with a KME. I get great results and learning curve was quick.
I only use it when heavy work is needed, and the Sharpmaker for touch up with a strop. (And a good honing steel for kitchen knives).
About all of the systems mentioned in the thread work well, just takes time and practice with any of them to achieve good results.
Good luck and keep practicing!
I never was good with a stone, and went with a KME. I get great results and learning curve was quick.
I only use it when heavy work is needed, and the Sharpmaker for touch up with a strop. (And a good honing steel for kitchen knives).
About all of the systems mentioned in the thread work well, just takes time and practice with any of them to achieve good results.
Good luck and keep practicing!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 6,427
I understand what sharp is, and what not very sharp is. But I've never figured out where on the continuum a "working edge" is.
[/QUOTE]
As I understand it, a "working edge" is the edge that is best suited for the task at hand that you need the blade for. A razor sharp mirrored edge might look pretty and cut great, but it is not necessarily the best edge for the job that you need it for. A more toothy edge like you would get sharpening up to a 800 grit stone would be better suited for opening boxes and cutting cardboard and stuff like that.
I am still learning myself so maybe one of the masters will step in and give us a better understanding of the term.
[/QUOTE]As I understand it, a "working edge" is the edge that is best suited for the task at hand that you need the blade for. A razor sharp mirrored edge might look pretty and cut great, but it is not necessarily the best edge for the job that you need it for. A more toothy edge like you would get sharpening up to a 800 grit stone would be better suited for opening boxes and cutting cardboard and stuff like that.
I am still learning myself so maybe one of the masters will step in and give us a better understanding of the term.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 45,558
People seem to use the term "working edge" in one of two ways.
Either an edge that is perfectly adequate for the job at hand, such as box cutting, rope cutting, yard work, what have you. No extra bells or whistles. Often with a more obtuse, robust bevel.
Or, the edge left behind after a highly refined edge has been used and is no longer capable of feats such as hair whittling, or keen razor sharpness, but still continues to get the job done on more mundane tasks for a good long time.
Those are the contexts I usually find the term popping up in most often.
Either an edge that is perfectly adequate for the job at hand, such as box cutting, rope cutting, yard work, what have you. No extra bells or whistles. Often with a more obtuse, robust bevel.
Or, the edge left behind after a highly refined edge has been used and is no longer capable of feats such as hair whittling, or keen razor sharpness, but still continues to get the job done on more mundane tasks for a good long time.
Those are the contexts I usually find the term popping up in most often.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 6,427
My whole life I sharpened my knives by hand. I just got them as sharp as I could and didn't worry about anything else. The clip point on my Buck 301X pocket knife is dull since it is my favorite fingernail cleaning blade. It was razor sharp but I got tired of cutting myself while cleaning my fingernails, so I dulled it on purpose.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 45,558
I would venture that most folks don't equate a 2000-3000 grit finish as "toothy", generally speaking. So, that's another area where there is no standard definition.
Generally, with the higher carbide steels, it seems like the range generally referred to as toothy is somewhere in the 320 to 600 (or 800) area.
Sorta like one man's ceiling is another man's floor.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
- Messages
- 2,809
And if i had to define it, that would be my definition as well. The problem I have is that most of the folks I know (general public, not the members here) use the term working edge, or utility edge, to describe an edge that is actually fairly dull.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
- Messages
- 2,809
Toothy, to me, means that it "feels" toothy when I run my thumb along the edge.
I need to get to at least 5,000 to not feel it.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 45,558
Toothy, to me, means that it "feels" toothy when I run my thumb along the edge.
I need to get to at least 5,000 to not feel it.
Well, now I know where to send my knives when I get frustrated.
I have taken working edge to mean simply an edge suitable for work which of course depends on the work being done, however specialties like sashimi knives, sectioning blades, straight razors, and finishing planes would be declared as such and handled uniquely. This is not a half-assed edge, rather it is one measured by performance in actual use rather than contrived sharpness tests like whittling hair, cross-grain 90-90-90 cuts of phone-book paper, etc., and in such use it may perform better than an edge that passes those contrived tests.
Frequent attributes of a working edge:
Low edge thickness and softened shoulders directly translate into lower cut force, better than apex keenness—low cut force reduces fatigue and increases edge life. An acute edge has a longer wear life than an obtuse one. In slicing a low grit apex has a longer wear life than a high grit one; though higher grit apexes can have slicing aggression they lose it much faster than lower grit apexes. Time efficiency is maximized by increasing wear life and minimizing sharpening time.
Frequent attributes of a working edge:
- Edge thickness is lower than nearly all factory edges
- Hard bevel shoulders are softened
- Edge angle is as acute as typical work allows
- Grit finish is low for slicing, high for whittling, medium for general purpose
- Applied and touched up reasonably quickly
- Face finish and original thick edge are preserved
- Crisp shoulder on a single flat bevel
- Edge angle often more obtuse to avoid a very wide bevel (hard to polish)
- Polished for looks and cutting tricks
- Applied in as much time as it takes
Low edge thickness and softened shoulders directly translate into lower cut force, better than apex keenness—low cut force reduces fatigue and increases edge life. An acute edge has a longer wear life than an obtuse one. In slicing a low grit apex has a longer wear life than a high grit one; though higher grit apexes can have slicing aggression they lose it much faster than lower grit apexes. Time efficiency is maximized by increasing wear life and minimizing sharpening time.
Last edited:
Hey hello sorry for bothering you again just wanted to make sure I'm not getting the wrong stone was gonna order like right now but noticed there where two ultrasharp diamond stones one is 300/1200 which is 20 dallors more than the 400/1000 one and the 300/1200 one has much better reviews than the 400/1000 I'm confused aren't they the same stone and there made by the same company why is one much more expensive than the other? Sorry if this sounds stupid don't want to make a mistake, and I would rather get the cheaper one of course and also I was gonna get a Norton IB8 100/300 can you use it with water or oil only? ThanksWell, now I know where to send my knives when I get frustrated.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 45,558
Alex, either one will serve you well. It's not going to make a huge difference. The 300 is slightly more aggressive, the 1200 slightly more fine. Companies make products in a variety of grits.
The IB8 is an oil stone, and I'd recommend using it with oil. It will make cleanup and maintenance of the stone easier. You don't need a lot, just a thin amount smeared with a finger on the surface to keep the removed steel from clogging the pores. Then you can wipe it off with a paper towel afterward. Easy peasy. Mineral oil, (pharmaceutical mineral oil sold as a laxative preferred), works and is cheaper than the Norton Oil which is also mineral oil but may be slightly lighter in weight. Either way, the oil will last a long time.
The IB8 is an oil stone, and I'd recommend using it with oil. It will make cleanup and maintenance of the stone easier. You don't need a lot, just a thin amount smeared with a finger on the surface to keep the removed steel from clogging the pores. Then you can wipe it off with a paper towel afterward. Easy peasy. Mineral oil, (pharmaceutical mineral oil sold as a laxative preferred), works and is cheaper than the Norton Oil which is also mineral oil but may be slightly lighter in weight. Either way, the oil will last a long time.
Allright thanks for clearing my mind will order today, thanks again
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
- Messages
- 4,458
It could be that the 400/1000 is an interrupted stone. That would explain the price difference. Is there a diamond cross hatch pattern on the surface?