Knife Terminology

[malextwo]

Re: Sunk(en) joints... Can a Copperhead (because of its unique bolster shape) be considered to have a sunken joint? Seems so???

Mike

 

[waynorth]

Re: Sunk(en) joints... Can a Copperhead (because of its unique bolster shape) be considered to have a sunken joint? Seems so???

Mike

What's the sound of one hand clapping? I have some old Queen Barlows with a "bump" or "copperhead" on the bolster to hide the run up on the tang. I've often pondered what to call it, but decided it didn't need a name. Life is full of uncertainty. However, if you say copperhead, I know what you mean!:thumbup:

By the way, is anyone out there reading about jigging? I've got some interesting pictures to post, but don't detect much interest in the topic? Helloooo!

 

[Blues]

I think a treatise on the different jigging patterns (Rogers et al.) would be of interest, Charlie. Have at it!

 

[thawk]

I am interested in the traditional bone jigging styles, and how it was accomplished, both by hand and in mass. I don't have any contributing information. Jigged bone is my favorite handle material, over stag and pearl. I even like some jigged Delrin.

 

[waynorth]

Thanks for the link, Mike. And for showing us your Smith Brothers! That's a nice one. We talk about jigging a lot around here, so I thought I'd follow the NYK path for a while, as a way to get into some disscussion on the different types.
As always, with old knives, it's hard to develop the history, unless you were there. The best I can do is show a few surviving examples, and see where it leads. Here are 4 NYKs. One is marked OVB (Hibbard, Spencer& Bartlett) but I think you will all agree it's an NYK made example.
The two on the left have different jigging from the two on the right.
I have seen these two variations on a lot of knives made by NYK. I can only guess why they differ. The left two have an earlier version of their punch, patented in 1902. The third knife has a later version patented in 1916. The last EE knife has the earlier punch.
You could guess that the left two were hand jigged, and the right two had some kind of machine assisted jigging, but it's not 100% clear; to me anyway.
Let's talk about NYK jigging for a bit. Show us what you have, and share your knowledge please!!

I just brought this pic up for convenience, because it was lost back there on the previous page. I'll post more separately.

 

[waynorth]

I don't have a lot of Remingtons, so let me know if these are good representations. I've seen "rem bone" used on custom knives, but sometimes it is hard to pin down what makes it different from others. Show us some Remingtons if you have them, please!

 

[Blues]

Pile side of my Remington R1123:

 

[waynorth]

Just to confuse the issue a little, or more correctly, to illustrate how confusing it can be, here's a picture of a Remington next to a Utica/Kutmaster.

 

[waynorth]

Your Rem jigging seems to be much finer than mine, Blues.
I have yet to get a picture in my head of "quintessential" Rem-bone.

 

[Blues]

I think you need to enlist Oregon Edge's help. He has quite an extensive collection, many of which are displayed here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523346&highlight=Remington's

 

[waynorth]

Good Link!! This thread will probably have a lot of links before we're done, for things previously discussed elsewhere.
Some of Oregon Edge's knives have deep complex jigging. So, just like Case, the jigging varied from time to time. It probably varied according to who was doing the jigging that day, and maybe it varied Monday to Friday.

 

[waynorth]

This bunch is here to illustrate the evolution of jigging styles used on Schrade Cut. Co. knives. I'm just learning these, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe left to right it's newest to oldest. Peachseed on the left. Some sort of machine assisted jigging in the middle, and what I think of as hand picked-bone on the right. Notice the second last knife has a curved tang stamp, and hand-hammered steel pins. Probably the oldest knife there.

 

[Blues]

Beautiful. The tales those knives could tell...

 

[DaveinNY]

Great representation of different types of jigging, some look like they have a pattern, others are fairly random. It is difficult to tell which one's were hand done and which were machined. I wonder what the machines looked like and if they could be set up to produce different patterns of jigging.
BTW waynorth those are some great early knives. Thanks for giving us a peek.

 

[Mike Robuck]

Those are cool side by side. Thanks for posting them Charlie.

 

[waynorth]

I appeal to anyone who knows the answers, to how the jigging was done, and/or what the tools /machines looked like, to post us some info!!

 

[waynorth]

There is a lot of history to be discussed when you talk about jigging, so before we go on to another term or word, let's go back to Case. We touched on Redbone, so let's talk about Greenbone. The joke, as I heard it, is; "anything that's not Redbone, is Greenbone!" I wish that I was around when these terms were first used. Did Case ever use them back in the 1940s, or 1950s, or even the 1960s? Anyone know?? Or are they just constructed words, used by collectors back then?? Let's get to the truth!!
Meantime here are some to illustrate.
First some Green EEs (equal ends) or cigars, because that's what I collected for a while:

This second pic has some interesting examples. An old Case dealer calls these Greenbone. Do you agree???

 

[waynorth]

SCALES

Rather than re-discuss the term scales here, this is an excellent link to a thread in Bernie Levine's forum, on "scales"!!
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5430022#post5430022

 

[smiling-knife]

What a fantastic display of bone scales on old knives. Thanks very much waynorth for sharing those with us.

 

[waynorth]

The Stockman

The Premium Stock pattern was introduced ca. 1890, according to Bernie Levine, as a less bulky and more "dressy" version of a Cattle knife. The stock or stockman, and the cattle knife are somtimes confused with each other, but I like the following definition. A serpentine handle pattern (with sowbelly, gunstock, and other variations), with 3 blades (and 4, 5 and 6 blade variations).
The blades are usually; main-clip, secondaries-sheepfoot and spey. Sometimes a leather punch will take the place of one secondary. Again, there are several variations. A stockman under 3 1/2" long is considered a Junior Premium Stockman. Here are some ordinary examples.

Notice how the blades lie in the variations, in the last group shot. The sheepfoot "peeks" over the slim clip blades enough for a nail nick on the front, or "mark" side. On the full clip blade knives, the nail nick for the sheepfoot is on the back, or "pile" side.
The punch blades are not always on the bottom like my knives here. When they are at the top bolster, the main blade usually goes to the pile side spring, as 99% of punches are right handed.
If you have variations, 4-blades etc, please post them! And any other discussion! I know the basics, but would love to learn more! I am posting this info for newer collectors who ask me questions, but hope that you old veterans will chime in.