Knife you could rely on for survival

[KingMC]

I took at as people basically just fanboying. I never did actually recommend any knife, just a style. I recommended against an overly large knife with a glassbreaker.

You did a lot more than 'recommended against an overly large knife with a glassbreaker', what you said was

Well the last thing Id want would be a Becker or Esee or some overly large knife made out of carbon steel with a freaking glass breaker pommel.

That's not just a recommendation, that's a personal opinion phrased like an attack on overly large carbon-steeled knives with glass-breakers. You cannot make that statement as such and then be surprised that it started a conversation, it was about as inflammatory as you could have made it.

(Just FYI, Beckers don't have glass-breakers, just because the tang sticks out past the handle scales doesn't mean it's a glass-breaker)

I didnt saw a lot of cynicism based off what I feel is marketing and photographs attempting to provide an proof for carbon steels in an outdoor environment.

Again, the pictures were not attempts to 'market' any knives, they were proof that the opinions being shared had valid experiences behind them. Once again, that's a normal part of the forums here.

I was making an argument for using stainless steel and some reasons that it could be necessary. Ive gone on a handful of multi week treks in the Rockies and Ive seen a lot. Perhaps I was taking the OPs question too seriously.

Were the rust tests a bad idea? I ask because things like that arent entirely unhelpful but I thought it was kind of implied that they are mostly just for experimentation.

Using history as an example is great but at the same time we moved on from stone, wood, bronze, iron. I was saying, take a look into some modern stainless steel knives. Im not implying carbon steel blades will rust and disintegrate. Im not implying stainless knives are immune or impervious to any kind of corrosion, just weighing options.

The way you presented your argument made it seem as you were attempting to prove a point, if you had presented it as more of a recommendation and less of a 'stainless steel is better and here's why' argument it wouldn't have become such a big discussion topic.

If you were going to limit yourself to one knife and go out into the wilderness for a long period of time IMO something 4-5 inches made out of a modern stainless like CPM S35VN or Bohler Elmax would definitely be among the best choices. Are you going to bring oil, sand paper, WD40, scotchbrite, and wipe your knife down after every use. Its not unreasonable to do so I guess but... But what Im getting at is are you going to spend a lot of time maintaining the knife in the event that weather turns? What about rain? What about humidity before and after rain? What about snow? What if my clumsy ass falls into a stream or I drop my knife into the snow or on muddy ground? I go trekking and know what to bring, a knife is actually a necessity but Im going to make sure I have a ton of other stuff as well, folding saw, multiple methods to make fire, first aid, water filtration, waterproof everything, trash bags for dirty clothes, a SPORK, a suitable cup / plate, camp suds, Nalgenes, etc, etc

The reason the Fallkniven F1 and others are VG10 is because of corrosion resistance everything about it is for surviving in a downed pilot situation wearing gloves (rubber handle) up in the arctic circle.

You can't tell me that what you were doing is recommending stainless steels here, it is clearly an attempt to present situations where high-carbon steels would seemingly suffer from the environment in an attempt to sell stainless as the best option.

I wasnt going to make a reasonable level headed post weighing this and that and explaining this and that after I felt was just being trolled with shitposting.

The first response to this thread I had typed out which I deleted was: "If I fell out of bed and into the wilderness Id hope to at least have any knife." Then I went with more cynicism. No emojis.

I read an article like a month ago about how emojis are basically necessary for not coming off insulting or argumentative.

I hope this clears the air a bit or at least explains a couple things at minimum.

It's alright to share an opinion as a recommendation on these forums, in fact it's pretty much standard practice; it's not cool to get pissy when someone comes along with a different opinion that counters your own opinion. You cannot backtrack and say none of your posts were meant as attacks when more than a few people read them as such, you can't use lack of emojis as an excuse as to why you were misunderstood when everybody understood you fine and just didn't agree with you.

You screwed up and starting an argument that didn't go well for you, that's very normal and nothing to be ashamed about. The best way to recover from it is to just suck it up and move on, trying to pile on excuses will only make it worse.

Finally, just for clarification, it's not trolling when someone replies to your posts with contrariety.

 

[ggw]

My Most Comfortable Knife.

 

[Higgs Particle steel]

12345

 

[KingMC]

If any Beckerheads or whoever want to continue with the circle jerk simply PM me or ignore me, Id prefer the latter.

Assuming that as soon as someone becomes a fan of a company or knife designer they cast aside all common sense to blindly defend ‘their favorite’ company is a gross mistake made most often by stubborn individuals who can’t admit others can have valid opinions that differ from their own.

You conveniently ignored the other knife I referenced, my best example of carbon steel being fine for use in food prep outdoors uncoated without rust issues, also one that’s a tool steel: My Fiddleback Bushfinger in uncoated 01. Not 1095, not Becker, not coated, great little knife.

Accusing someone of being a blind fanboy of something is not an excuse to ignore what they’re saying as invalid.

 

[91bravo]

If I venture into the woods, I always have my rust magnets with me!

 

[trevitrace]

If I venture into the woods, I always have my rust magnets with me!

Damn, even your baton has rust on it.

 

[91bravo]

America was BUILT on carbon steel!

 

[91bravo]

Damn, even your baton has rust on it.

That'll buff right out....

 

[Pilsner]

I was literally recommending against carbon steels and recommending to look into some stainless steels. Theres not really anything past that.

I made this account to participate in a thread experimenting with stainless steels.

You are Beckerhead #374 and Ka-Bar Krew #49.

You made a post commenting about people posting pictures and you followed that up with pictures. That was classic.

Between my comment about overly large carbon steel knives referencing the BK2 and my comment on your post about pictures you have every reason to plant your feet as an opponent against any statement or idea I have made. That's also classic. This thread is like a microcosm of the internet.

On bladeforums once again a thread has ended up with multiple pages amounting to what is basically guys arguing about 1095. We can use whatever terms we wanna use but thats what it comes down to. Its not so much about the defense of 1060, 1084, 5160 or tool steels like O1, A2, or D2. Its not really against stainless steels.

It comes down to Beckerheads, Ka-Bar Krew, and whatever the catchy name is for Esee people and 1095. Thats actually a problem when it comes to information gathering.

For future reference, this is trolling (aka shitposting):



If any Beckerheads or whoever want to continue with the circle jerk simply PM me or ignore me, Id prefer the latter.

Here’s the thing.

The issue was not you suggesting stainless as a good option; I happen to think it is a good option, if it’s the right kind of stainless. I live in the UK, I do outdoor stuff, it rains a lot.

The issue was in fact some of your frankly absurd assertions about the effort required in keeping a carbon steel knife from rusting to pieces. Barring spending one’s days on a trawler in the North Sea, I can’t really see that happening.

To wit, I learned to prepare vegetables as a child with a carbon steel knife that had been around for decades, enduring endless exposure to water. It had such a patina it was almost black. I thought it was dirty, although told otherwise, but I liked it because it was the sharpest knife we had in the kitchen. So much easier to use.

I digress. In addition to pleasing stainless outdoor knives, such as the laminated ones by Fällkniven, I also own and use excellent carbon steel knives. In fact, I have more fixed blade carbon steel knives than stainless. The Grohmann #3, for example, in carbon steel. None of them have shown any sign of rust but the ones that have been out and about take on a patina. Then I polish it off, for shits and giggles.

Hundreds of years of history, some of it being made as we speak, will confirm that good carbon steel is just fine. As long as it is in competent hands. And no, you won’t need any bloody sandpaper. Are you joking?

 

[Gaston444]

As long as "competent hands" can keep rain out of a snug sheath, sure.

The trouble is, using the blade under rain will make the blade bring rain into the sheath. There is no wiping it off when it still rains on you...: This is about a "Survival Knife", and that means a knife that will perform when circumstances are not chosen. And that's not uncoated carbon.

And what is wrong with a modern coating on Carbon anyway?

Gaston

 

[Herlock]

Hi. I also tend to favor stainless steel blades for my outdoor activities, since they involve some food prep and, psychologically , I perceive the stainless steel as “cleaner” . My favorite/go-to one is the F1.

Anyway, I have and had dozens of Opinel Carbone, in different sizes, which I use since my childhood. I share the same experiences other have reported: they develop a patina but, as long as they are used on a daily basis, even for few cuts/day, they never develop rust.

The ones I owned which developed rust, have been left in the kitchen drawers of the mountain hut for an entire season or forgot in boxes in the garage at least for some months. I’m talking about “superficial” rust or, in worst cases, some pitting, but not real corrosion. That occurred to me only once, when I dug out an Opinel 8 from the vegetable garden, plowing a flowerbed . It probably had been underground for years!

I normally clean up thoroughly and put some oil on my blades, before storing knives away for some time, To get rid of a too “thick” patina I normally use Sidol from Henkel, to remove the superficial rust a fine sandpaper (600 grit).

 

[knarfeng]

State your opinion on the question instead of your opinion of one another.

 

[jimmyd1982]

As long as "competent hands" can keep rain out of a snug sheath, sure.

The trouble is, using the blade under rain will make the blade bring rain into the sheath. There is no wiping it off when it still rains on you...: This is about a "Survival Knife", and that means a knife that will perform when circumstances are not chosen. And that's not uncoated carbon.

And what is wrong with a modern coating on Carbon anyway?

Gaston

I'll just use a black leather sheath.

 

[ocnLogan]

Interesting discussion so far.

One portion of the conversation that hasn't been brought up, is about the physical characteristics of stainless vs carbon steels.

To make a broad, generic statement, carbon steels are "typically" tougher than stainless steels (and yes, I know this is not a universal truth). This means that/is why a greater percentage of larger blades/tools are carbon steel.

Also, as the responses in the thread have shown, "most" people, if restricted to bringing only one bladed tool, would err on the side of a larger knife (of which a greater number are carbon steel, as they are built/designed for rougher use typically). So I'm guessing that is a reason more of the responses are carbon steel.

Another potential bonus of a carbon steel knife in this survival scenario, is that you can use it as the "steel" part of the flint and steel combo in a pinch.

Personally, I do feel that the "danger" of carbon rusting, is real, but not enough of a problem to avoid a carbon steel knife, as long as the other features/design traits met your criteria. I mean, humans have had knives for a long time, and got along just fine without stainless, all over the world until recently.

I have lived between 2-30 miles from the pacific ocean for the last 5 years. I now live in a very rainy and humid location, and am not shy about using my knives in the rain. The only rust I've ever had, was very very slight discoloration on the edge of a knife left in a box, in it's sheath(I know, I know), for many months.

After all that, how do I feel about all this? Just pick the right tool for the right job. My folding edc is stainless, as it sits in my pocket all day where it's warm and humid. My mora that I keep in my 72hr kit is stainless as well, so I can just leave it there in readiness. My machete is carbon steel though, as are most of the harder use knives I own,and honestly I think any of them could work if needed.

 

[jux t]

BK-5 would work well enough. Great geometry for all around work and defense.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Hi. I also tend to favor stainless steel blades for my outdoor activities, since they involve some food prep and, psychologically , I perceive the stainless steel as “cleaner” . My favorite/go-to one is the F1.

Anyway, I have and had dozens of Opinel Carbone, in different sizes, which I use since my childhood. I share the same experiences other have reported: they develop a patina but, as long as they are used on a daily basis, even for few cuts/day, they never develop rust.

The ones I owned which developed rust, have been left in the kitchen drawers of the mountain hut for an entire season or forgot in boxes in the garage at least for some months. I’m talking about “superficial” rust or, in worst cases, some pitting, but not real corrosion. That occurred to me only once, when I dug out an Opinel 8 from the vegetable garden, plowing a flowerbed . It probably had been underground for years!

I normally clean up thoroughly and put some oil on my blades, before storing knives away for some time, To get rid of a too “thick” patina I normally use Sidol from Henkel, to remove the superficial rust a fine sandpaper (600 grit).

Herlock!,
Its more than a perceived cleanliness you have with stainless Steels! The Chromium etc does give an added anti-microbial factor along with them not being etched away like several decades old Carbon steel kitchen can be!

No, you won't die from eating off of older carbon steel, But the Stainless is cleaner.

While I prefer Stainless Steels for making my custom culinary knives, and my folders etc, Stainless has been around a bit over a 100 years and carbon steels go back some 2000 to about 4000 years depending on whom you listen to?

There are Museums full of Carbon Steel, arms & Armour that go back 800-1000 years and these Swords, Axes, Shields & Armour didn't disintegrate because they got wet in a storm, Crossed a River, Blah Blah! With some care they have held up just fine!

Oh, and if i could only have on knife in the Wilderness, it would be on of mine.
12" ATS-34 Bladed Bush Wacker!

 

[Jhansenak47]

I would use one of my carry knives for a survival knife. They are carried because they are useful, why over think it?

No, you won't die from eating off of older carbon steel, But the Stainless is cleaner.

I have read that some Japanese chefs intentionally use carbon steel to prepare sushi because it imparts a subtle flavour.

 

[Velitrius]

It comes down to Beckerheads, Ka-Bar Krew, and whatever the catchy name is for Esee people and 1095.

Eseemen.

I have an old Utica Sportsman that I think is 1095, and a Schrade USA Sharpfinger. I'd take either of those just fine.

I have the Mora Companion in carbon and another Companion in stainless. Wouldn't matter to me which, I like both.

The whole "carbon steel is worthless next to stainless steel" thing just makes me chuckle. It's a wonder Lewis and Clark didn't plop their butts down in St. Louis and refuse to move west until somebody brewed them up some stainless.

 

[Yonose]

Herlock!,
Its more than a perceived cleanliness you have with stainless Steels! The Chromium etc does give an added anti-microbial factor along with them not being etched away like several decades old Carbon steel kitchen can be!

No, you won't die from eating off of older carbon steel, But the Stainless is cleaner.

While I prefer Stainless Steels for making my custom culinary knives, and my folders etc, Stainless has been around a bit over a 100 years and carbon steels go back some 2000 to about 4000 years depending on whom you listen to?

There are Museums full of Carbon Steel, arms & Armour that go back 800-1000 years and these Swords, Axes, Shields & Armour didn't disintegrate because they got wet in a storm, Crossed a River, Blah Blah! With some care they have held up just fine!

Oh, and if i could only have on knife in the Wilderness, it would be on of mine.
12" ATS-34 Bladed Bush Wacker!View attachment 864604

Is that knife unique? Or do you still make them?

 

[Yonose]

I would use one of my carry knives for a survival knife. They are carried because they are useful, why over think it?


I have read that some Japanese chefs intentionally use carbon steel to prepare sushi because it imparts a subtle flavour.

Same as with chefs using cast iron skillets!