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Usually a good idea to heed the warning from a mod.
On that note, some knives I would be fine surviving with:
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Knife you could rely on for survival
- Thread starter DracoKrys
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On that note, some knives I would be fine surviving with:
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I have went deep into the wood with only one knife. It acted as protection riding on the front of my belt moving with the front or my leg. When I hit camp I whittled out some tent stakes and pounded them into the ground with this knife. I then split some wood with this knife for cooking. After fishing I cleaned my catch with this knife. While cooking same fish I used this knife as a spatula.
The knife is the Ontario Knife Company SP10 Marine Raider. Great knife.
The knife is the Ontario Knife Company SP10 Marine Raider. Great knife.
Here's an interview with Jeff Randall about survival knives. I think he may know a bit about them. I agree with him that 99% of the knife market is BS. His own choice for survival is a low cost carbon steel machete.
H
How Survival Knives Are Designed And Manufactured
Wes Siler
5/15/14 5:40pm
Filed to: DESIGN
86.0K
571What makes a $200 knife different from a $20 one? We asked Jungle survival trainer and knife designer Jeff Randall.
Jeff runs Randall's Adventure and Training, where he teaches survival in one of the harshest environments on earth — the Amazon Rainforest. Along with co-founder Mike Perrin, he also runs ESEE Knives, producing no-bullshit tools intended for hard use. We asked him to explain how new knives come to be.
What Big Survival Knives Are For And How To Use One
Is there any cooler item of outdoors gear than a big, fixed-blade knife? Or a more misunderstood…
Read on indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com
IW: It's a piece of metal with a pointy end and a handle. How hard is it really to design a knife?
JR: Making a knife in the true sense of the word is easy; a lid off a tuna can will cut and slice just fine. But, making a knife that's comfortable to hold in your hand and use for long periods of time can sometimes take some work.
The initial design is sketched out, a prototype is built from wood or plastic, design is tweaked to fit, a steel production prototype is built, then ESEE adds and extra step with the prototypes being tested for several months in the environment they are designed for. After that, final tweaks are made and production begins.
Jeff (right) with co-owner of ESEE Knives, Mike Perrin.
On the want side, knife users are always contacting us with their ideas for the perfect knife. Many times it will be a recurring idea, so a new knife is born. Our new Camp-Lore bushcraft series is a good example of that.
IW: Knives have been around for thousands of years. What technical innovation is still possible?
JR: Maybe on the material side of things we will see some innovations. There are a lot of exotic steels being used in the industry, but after using a lot of them, I really can't see where the extra cost is justified in terms of performance, especially when it comes to a simple field knife. I'm just waiting for a portable light sabre or laser knife. In the meantime, I will stick with plain old carbon steel cutting edges and be happy.
A much-loved ESEE-3.
IW: In what ways does a quality knife differ from a seemingly identical one that's mass-manufactured?
JR: I guess that question could apply to any industry that has custom shops as well as mass-production factories. Quality means controlling your processes, whether that's in a one-off piece or a mass-produced product. I've seen terrible quality from custom knife makers and exceptional quality from high-volume manufacturers. The reverse is also true.
Quality knives will have symmetrical grind lines and edge grinds. They will also have exceptional fit and finish on mating surfaces such as where the handles meet the blade. Most important is the maker will have heat-treating processes down to a science and will do destructive testing on each batch of knives. Again, quality simply means controlling your processes and caring about the finest details as well as the overall picture.
IW: How can a layperson tell the difference between a good knife and a garbage one?
JR: In today's market, it's becoming increasingly difficult to know the difference. China is world famous for counterfeiting high-end knives, right down to the boxing and clamshell packaging. For example, if you buy a real Chris Reeve knife made in the USA, then you will get a piece that is visually and structurally perfect in every way. The Chinese counterfeit Reeve will look good on the surface, but the heat treat is typically horrible and the inner mechanisms of the folders are rough. So, to know the difference nowadays takes a lot of experience, work and education. Or, just stay away from the flea market guys and the gas station sellers and buy from a reputable knife dealer that knows its product line. There are thousands of good knife retailers online.
IW: How does heat treat work?
JR: There's no such thing as magic, but there are proprietary processes. In short, heat treating is a process that brings the steel up to a critical temperature, thus causing a change in the molecular structure of the steel. If it's a steel that needs to be quenched, it's then dropped into a solution such as oil for rapid cooling. At this stage, it's too hard to be used as a knife since it will be brittle. So, it's "drawn back" or tempered in an oven at a much lower temperature to give it the perfect compromise between hardness and toughness.
Part Machete And Part Big Knife, Is This The Ultimate Survival Blade?
At 16.5 inches, the ESEE Junglas is as long as a machete, but thick and sturdy like a knife.…
IW: There's so many different steels out there. How do you evaluate the abilities of each and apply that to knife design?
JR: We don't. Carbon steels have been used to sustain life and wage war for a long, long time. It works, so why change it? The villagers and indigenous tribes of the Amazon use carbon steel every day to sustain themselves. They sharpen their knives on flat rocks and could care less about perfect edge angles, aesthetics or whether it's the latest fashion trend in steel.
The only downfall to carbon steels is they will rust pretty quickly. And, while that doesn't bother us since it wears off with use and patinas up nicely, some folks are anal about keeping their knives pristine. So, we are answering that by coming out with a stainless steel line of knives.
Me? I'll still be carrying carbon since it's easy to sharpen in the field and simply works for everything with a lot cheaper price tag. ESEE build simple, ugly knives that work.
IW: What trends are currently influencing the knife market?
JR: In all honesty, the knife industry is about 99 percent bullshit. We sell knives every day to people who will never use them. Knife buying is more of a want than a need.
I grew up on a farm carrying a three-bladed "Old timer" pocketknife. It did everything I needed and got used daily. All these new weird shapes and designs that keep coming out are made just to have something new and "tacticool." Most companies refuse to speak the truth and just say, "the reason we designed this is because some mall ninja would think it's cool and spend money on it."
Once you get in the real world of knife use, whether it's butchering a deer or building a fire, you will see that a simple, basic knife design is all that's really needed to perform the task.
IW: What's the design process of a knife look like?
JR: It usually starts with an idea by others or ourselves. In most all cases, this happens while we are sitting at a bar during a tradeshow, so a pen and bar napkins are the first tools of a new design. From there, we take it to a CAD process and then move it onto a 3D modeling process in Solid Works. Once we're happy with the electronic version, we either make a wooden model or a steel prototype so we can get an idea what it feels like in-hand before investing the time in a working prototype. After we tweak the models, it then goes to full prototype stage. Once those first prototypes are built, they get put in the environment they're designed for. Sometimes this means shipping them to testers who may be in the military, other survival instructors, hunters etc. We put them through their paces in that environment for a length of time, then do destructive testing on the prototypes. After we're satisfied with our results, it becomes a production knife.
IW: What one knife would you want with you in a survival situation?
JR: A low-cost, carbon steel machete. Easy to sharpen, superb cutting efficiency, it can be choked up on to clean game (we do it all the time in the Amazon), makes shelter work quick and easy and will do everything needed to build a fire. What else could someone want in a true survival situation? The bottom line is, a machete works for anything I need to do in the areas I haunt.
H
How Survival Knives Are Designed And Manufactured
Wes Siler
5/15/14 5:40pm
Filed to: DESIGN
86.0K
571What makes a $200 knife different from a $20 one? We asked Jungle survival trainer and knife designer Jeff Randall.
Jeff runs Randall's Adventure and Training, where he teaches survival in one of the harshest environments on earth — the Amazon Rainforest. Along with co-founder Mike Perrin, he also runs ESEE Knives, producing no-bullshit tools intended for hard use. We asked him to explain how new knives come to be.
What Big Survival Knives Are For And How To Use One
Is there any cooler item of outdoors gear than a big, fixed-blade knife? Or a more misunderstood…
Read on indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com
IW: It's a piece of metal with a pointy end and a handle. How hard is it really to design a knife?
JR: Making a knife in the true sense of the word is easy; a lid off a tuna can will cut and slice just fine. But, making a knife that's comfortable to hold in your hand and use for long periods of time can sometimes take some work.
The initial design is sketched out, a prototype is built from wood or plastic, design is tweaked to fit, a steel production prototype is built, then ESEE adds and extra step with the prototypes being tested for several months in the environment they are designed for. After that, final tweaks are made and production begins.
Jeff (right) with co-owner of ESEE Knives, Mike Perrin.
On the want side, knife users are always contacting us with their ideas for the perfect knife. Many times it will be a recurring idea, so a new knife is born. Our new Camp-Lore bushcraft series is a good example of that.
IW: Knives have been around for thousands of years. What technical innovation is still possible?
JR: Maybe on the material side of things we will see some innovations. There are a lot of exotic steels being used in the industry, but after using a lot of them, I really can't see where the extra cost is justified in terms of performance, especially when it comes to a simple field knife. I'm just waiting for a portable light sabre or laser knife. In the meantime, I will stick with plain old carbon steel cutting edges and be happy.
A much-loved ESEE-3.
IW: In what ways does a quality knife differ from a seemingly identical one that's mass-manufactured?
JR: I guess that question could apply to any industry that has custom shops as well as mass-production factories. Quality means controlling your processes, whether that's in a one-off piece or a mass-produced product. I've seen terrible quality from custom knife makers and exceptional quality from high-volume manufacturers. The reverse is also true.
Quality knives will have symmetrical grind lines and edge grinds. They will also have exceptional fit and finish on mating surfaces such as where the handles meet the blade. Most important is the maker will have heat-treating processes down to a science and will do destructive testing on each batch of knives. Again, quality simply means controlling your processes and caring about the finest details as well as the overall picture.
IW: How can a layperson tell the difference between a good knife and a garbage one?
JR: In today's market, it's becoming increasingly difficult to know the difference. China is world famous for counterfeiting high-end knives, right down to the boxing and clamshell packaging. For example, if you buy a real Chris Reeve knife made in the USA, then you will get a piece that is visually and structurally perfect in every way. The Chinese counterfeit Reeve will look good on the surface, but the heat treat is typically horrible and the inner mechanisms of the folders are rough. So, to know the difference nowadays takes a lot of experience, work and education. Or, just stay away from the flea market guys and the gas station sellers and buy from a reputable knife dealer that knows its product line. There are thousands of good knife retailers online.
IW: How does heat treat work?
JR: There's no such thing as magic, but there are proprietary processes. In short, heat treating is a process that brings the steel up to a critical temperature, thus causing a change in the molecular structure of the steel. If it's a steel that needs to be quenched, it's then dropped into a solution such as oil for rapid cooling. At this stage, it's too hard to be used as a knife since it will be brittle. So, it's "drawn back" or tempered in an oven at a much lower temperature to give it the perfect compromise between hardness and toughness.
Part Machete And Part Big Knife, Is This The Ultimate Survival Blade?
At 16.5 inches, the ESEE Junglas is as long as a machete, but thick and sturdy like a knife.…
IW: There's so many different steels out there. How do you evaluate the abilities of each and apply that to knife design?
JR: We don't. Carbon steels have been used to sustain life and wage war for a long, long time. It works, so why change it? The villagers and indigenous tribes of the Amazon use carbon steel every day to sustain themselves. They sharpen their knives on flat rocks and could care less about perfect edge angles, aesthetics or whether it's the latest fashion trend in steel.
The only downfall to carbon steels is they will rust pretty quickly. And, while that doesn't bother us since it wears off with use and patinas up nicely, some folks are anal about keeping their knives pristine. So, we are answering that by coming out with a stainless steel line of knives.
Me? I'll still be carrying carbon since it's easy to sharpen in the field and simply works for everything with a lot cheaper price tag. ESEE build simple, ugly knives that work.
IW: What trends are currently influencing the knife market?
JR: In all honesty, the knife industry is about 99 percent bullshit. We sell knives every day to people who will never use them. Knife buying is more of a want than a need.
I grew up on a farm carrying a three-bladed "Old timer" pocketknife. It did everything I needed and got used daily. All these new weird shapes and designs that keep coming out are made just to have something new and "tacticool." Most companies refuse to speak the truth and just say, "the reason we designed this is because some mall ninja would think it's cool and spend money on it."
Once you get in the real world of knife use, whether it's butchering a deer or building a fire, you will see that a simple, basic knife design is all that's really needed to perform the task.
IW: What's the design process of a knife look like?
JR: It usually starts with an idea by others or ourselves. In most all cases, this happens while we are sitting at a bar during a tradeshow, so a pen and bar napkins are the first tools of a new design. From there, we take it to a CAD process and then move it onto a 3D modeling process in Solid Works. Once we're happy with the electronic version, we either make a wooden model or a steel prototype so we can get an idea what it feels like in-hand before investing the time in a working prototype. After we tweak the models, it then goes to full prototype stage. Once those first prototypes are built, they get put in the environment they're designed for. Sometimes this means shipping them to testers who may be in the military, other survival instructors, hunters etc. We put them through their paces in that environment for a length of time, then do destructive testing on the prototypes. After we're satisfied with our results, it becomes a production knife.
IW: What one knife would you want with you in a survival situation?
JR: A low-cost, carbon steel machete. Easy to sharpen, superb cutting efficiency, it can be choked up on to clean game (we do it all the time in the Amazon), makes shelter work quick and easy and will do everything needed to build a fire. What else could someone want in a true survival situation? The bottom line is, a machete works for anything I need to do in the areas I haunt.
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Spent several years stationed in SC's low country, right on the coast. I also lived in Florida where I spent 1 year living across the street from the beach, and several more years about 10 min from the beach.
I never had a problem.
Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been on my flint and steel comment.
For clarity, I'm trying to describe "old school" flint and steel, where the flint is actually a hard rock, and the steel is just a piece of carbon steel.
What you mention here I call a firesteel, or ferro rod. I much prefer these over flint and steel, as the sparks are way, way hotter, so its easier to get tinder going. And, I am aware that you can use a stainless blade (or sharp rock, piece of glass, or a myriad of other things with good strong edges) to scrape a ferro rod.
But in the scenario as I read it that the op asked, where I was for some reason thinking only one tool could go with you (a single knife), then having the ability to find a good rock, and gain some other method to start a fire would be something id think about.
And, I've never had the edge of any of my knives rust as quickly as you're describing happening to that kabar over a few hours. Was the knife wet that whole time? Or what exactly was the scenario there, I'm curious.
I have actually lived in coastal/humid areas , within 90 miles of the Atlantic, the Midwest, and ~2-30 miles from the pacific, for more than a handful of years each, and haven't seen what you're describing, but I don't claim to have been out and about as much as some, and nor have I seen everything, hence my curiosity about the scenario/conditions.
So far, the only times I've seen edge/surface rust, is when I put the knife away wet. To be fair though, I am not "usually", using my knife for more than a few minutes at a time, so maybe I've just not run into the conditions where this happens.
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You seem to misunderstand the rules- W&C leaking is not permissible. "shitty forum with shitty mods" has nothing to do with you breaking the rules and nothing to with mods being shitty- we have a job to do independent of your likes or dislikes.
That forum you linked to is meant to keep garbage out of the rest of the forum. A honey pot if you will.
Please remove the link- You can put whomever on ignore and xenforo takes care of them.
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Thank you!
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While it is reality television, most participants on the history channels Alone used carbon steel blades and they seemed to hold up in a truely adverse environment. Stainless or non is not a huge factor so as long as you have the knowledge and wish to dedicate the time to maintain your knife. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
They've never filmed Alone in Kansas.
Who?
91bravo
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