Knifecenter Rockstead woe

[EChoil]

Hi brandoak,

I’m sorry to hear you feel this way about the experience you had with us. Let me start by saying that we really do try to do the very best job we can at getting the great items for the knife lovers of the world and getting them shipped quickly and properly while supporting both the customers and the makers in this great industry. We have a dedicated crew who are top notch and work hard every day to give you the best service possible. It’s easy to sit on a forum and rag on a seller. Those of you out there that have bought from us know we do a great job most of the time. We hope that we offer the most information about the products so that, even if you don’t buy from us, we are a real resource for the knife enthusiasts of the world. We do fall short on occasion, as does everyone, and if we made the wrong call in this instance, we apologize. Let me address the concerns you had.

1. I’ve looked into our records and see that you placed your order on Saturday, 3/19. The order was ready to ship on Monday morning 3/21 (we’re closed on weekends) but did not ship that day. For high value, first time customer orders, we do a credit card verification to verify that this is a legitimate order, and not fraud, or a kid using his parents’ credit card, etc. The order shipped on Tuesday, 3/22, the second business day, not six days.

2. If the dirty bubble wrap was outside of the Rockstead packaging, I apologize. We recycle some packing material since plastic takes many years to decompose. If it was smelly, it should have been discarded. The Rockstead box itself is meticulously wrapped from the factory in new bubble wrap.

3. We buy directly from Rockstead only. The actual knife we sent you was received from Rockstead on Thursday, 3/17. It sat in a locked room where we keep all of our high value items where only management has the keys. This item sat for about five days then shipped to you.

4. I personally dealt with your return. I was on the fence about the issue at that time but really and truly felt the knife was in pristine condition. I am the person at KnifeCenter that deals with all the Rockstead and also deals with the Rockstead company directly. Their products are amazing but, of course, not to everyone’s taste. I made the call and maybe I was right and maybe wrong.

5. Here’s why the 5% restocking fee was put in place. We never had a restocking fee until we started selling a lot of customs and mid-techs. We found that, since we were the only major dealer not charging the fee, customers would buy several high-end knives from us, try to sell them on the secondary market, and if they couldn’t, just return them to us. We were, in fact, financing people’s businesses with our policy! We also had people order items just to check them out and then send them back. We would have damaged boxes as well as slightly used expensive items that would not be sellable. If these mistakenly went back out, you would have the very situation that many of you complain about--used items being sold as new.

6. You are welcome to contact us by phone and ask for me, Tom, and we can work out something equitable for you. We value your business and absolutely want you to be satisfied with the transaction whether you buy from us again or not.

It's good of you to finally offer to work with the guy. I hope you can change his fee from something excessive to something reasonable.

I think most of us know the REASONS re-stocking fees were instituted. We further realize many of the problems a company such as yours must deal with.

I didn't notice a clear call here to ELIMINATE such fees, what I've seen is more the response of those who deem the fee you charged exorbitant.

When a company chooses to go online for sales, becoming a world or nation-wide seller rather than a strictly local walk-in business, it's a huge jump. You know you are going to have to deal with the problem of customers not being able to hold the actual knife until they receive it. Many will classify this as "part of doing business" and an unavoidable "evil" in going global or national via the web.​

On the other hand you certainly need protection from the abuses you outline. We all understand that clearly.

MY concern, in addition to the 'exorbitance factor,' would be the consistency with which you charge these re-stock fees. What I've picked up in a couple of these threads is that some get charged, some don't. Certainly your prerogative to try that, but I'm not sure how it would hold up legally if pressed...to say nothing of the perception of unfair treatment by your customers when such a practice of inconsistency is exposed here.​

Fully understanding your situation, my suggestion would be that you look at some kind of cap or formula to lessen what might be seen as a ripoff when a customer legitimately returns a high-end knife...even if you have to handle it "back-of-the-house" and do so informally in the face of posted "policies." i.e. leave a little room; give yourself options. Save your "maximum punishment" for those who are obvious, constant and blatant abusers. I don't see the OP in that category.

The fact remains you charged a customer nearly $100 to return a knife with which he was not satisfied. I think that would leave a bad taste in your mouth too. I only hope you can understand that. The perception alone, when you charge such a fee to someone, has to be losing you customers now and then. In fact I know it has, because a few have voiced it here. Frankly, seeing what you did to this guy, I wouldn't buy from you. I'd RUN the other way. From the small sampling here, I'd project that many have.​

Bottom line is when you charge $1800 for a pocket knife you need to be on notice that the customer is expecting perfection--not just perfection but absolute perfection--zero flaws. Maybe YOU are missing this? If so you need to grasp it.

Thanks for replying here and hopefully clearing some of this up. I'm optimistic you'll end up doing righteousness for your customer here.

Finally, a question I have long wanted to ask a dealer or two: What number of knives returned to you due to disatisfaction or perceived flaw do you return to the retail stream and re-sell?

 

[craytab]

It's good of you to finally offer to work with the guy. I hope you can change his fee from something excessive to something reasonable.

I think most of us know the REASONS re-stocking fees were instituted. We further realize many of the problems a company such as yours must deal with.

I didn't notice a clear call here to ELIMINATE such fees, what I've seen is more the response of those who deem the fee you charged exorbitant.

When a company chooses to go online for sales, becoming a world or nation-wide seller rather than a strictly local walk-in business, it's a huge jump. You know you are going to have to deal with the problem of customers not being able to hold the actual knife until they receive it. Many will classify this as "part of doing business" and an unavoidable "evil" in going global or national via the web.​

On the other hand you certainly need protection from the abuses you outline. We all understand that clearly.

MY concern, in addition to the 'exorbitance factor,' would be the consistency with which you charge these re-stock fees. What I've picked up in a couple of these threads is that some get charged, some don't. Certainly your prerogative to try that, but I'm not sure how it would hold up legally if pressed...to say nothing of the perception of unfair treatment by your customers when such a practice of inconsistency is exposed here.​

Fully understanding your situation, my suggestion would be that you look at some kind of cap or formula to lessen what might be seen as a ripoff when a customer legitimately returns a high-end knife...even if you have to handle it "back-of-the-house" and do so informally in the face of posted "policies." i.e. leave a little room; give yourself options. Save your "maximum punishment" for those who are obvious, constant and blatant abusers. I don't see the OP in that category.

The fact remains you charged a customer nearly $100 to return a knife with which he was not satisfied. I think that would leave a bad taste in your mouth too. I only hope you can understand that. The perception alone, when you charge such a fee to someone, has to be losing you customers now and then. In fact I know it has, because a few have voiced it here. Frankly, seeing what you did to this guy, I wouldn't buy from you. I'd RUN the other way. From the small sampling here, I'd project that many have.​

Bottom line is when you charge $1800 for a pocket knife you need to be on notice that the customer is expecting perfection--not just perfection but absolute perfection--zero flaws. Maybe YOU are missing this? If so you need to grasp it.

Thanks for replying here and hopefully clearing some of this up. I'm optimistic you'll end up doing righteousness for your customer here.

Finally, a question I have long wanted to ask a dealer or two: What number of knives returned to you due to disatisfaction or perceived flaw do you return to the retail stream and re-sell?

All of this, not just what you have posted in this thread but other threads, with no evidence other than the word of two people you don't know. Why?

 

[EChoil]

Yea, we heard you the first four times... KC's rules are easily found on their website. When you buy through them, you agree to their rules. 5% of $1,800 is $90. There is no scheme and nobody was ripped off...

FYI, I responded to this in my "Re-stocking Fee...sound off" (page 2 if you're interested) thread here in the GB&U section as this thread was closed at the time.

 

[EChoil]

All of this, not just what you have posted in this thread but other threads, with no evidence other than the word of two people you don't know. Why?

Hey Cray....whatever it is your asking me here, or trying to state, is not clear. Try again. Slower. Choose your words....

 

[Quiet]

It's good of you to finally offer to work with the guy. I hope you can change his fee from something excessive to something reasonable.

I think most of us know the REASONS re-stocking fees were instituted. We further realize many of the problems a company such as yours must deal with.

I didn't notice a clear call here to ELIMINATE such fees, what I've seen is more the response of those who deem the fee you charged exorbitant.

When a company chooses to go online for sales, becoming a world or nation-wide seller rather than a strictly local walk-in business, it's a huge jump. You know you are going to have to deal with the problem of customers not being able to hold the actual knife until they receive it. Many will classify this as "part of doing business" and an unavoidable "evil" in going global or national via the web.​

On the other hand you certainly need protection from the abuses you outline. We all understand that clearly.

MY concern, in addition to the 'exorbitance factor,' would be the consistency with which you charge these re-stock fees. What I've picked up in a couple of these threads is that some get charged, some don't. Certainly your prerogative to try that, but I'm not sure how it would hold up legally if pressed...to say nothing of the perception of unfair treatment by your customers when such a practice of inconsistency is exposed here.​

Fully understanding your situation, my suggestion would be that you look at some kind of cap or formula to lessen what might be seen as a ripoff when a customer legitimately returns a high-end knife...even if you have to handle it "back-of-the-house" and do so informally in the face of posted "policies." i.e. leave a little room; give yourself options. Save your "maximum punishment" for those who are obvious, constant and blatant abusers. I don't see the OP in that category.

The fact remains you charged a customer nearly $100 to return a knife with which he was not satisfied. I think that would leave a bad taste in your mouth too. I only hope you can understand that. The perception alone, when you charge such a fee to someone, has to be losing you customers now and then. In fact I know it has, because a few have voiced it here. Frankly, seeing what you did to this guy, I wouldn't buy from you. I'd RUN the other way. From the small sampling here, I'd project that many have.​

Bottom line is when you charge $1800 for a pocket knife you need to be on notice that the customer is expecting perfection--not just perfection but absolute perfection--zero flaws. Maybe YOU are missing this? If so you need to grasp it.

Thanks for replying here and hopefully clearing some of this up. I'm optimistic you'll end up doing righteousness for your customer here.

Finally, a question I have long wanted to ask a dealer or two: What number of knives returned to you due to disatisfaction or perceived flaw do you return to the retail stream and re-sell?

Translation: "I feel businesses should only charge fees that I personally think are fair."

 

[craytab]

Hey Cray....whatever it is your asking me here, or trying to state, is not clear. Try again. Slower. Choose your words....

I thought it was easy enough to understand but this might be more palatable for you?

Translation: "I feel businesses should only charge fees that I personally think are fair."

This thing should be locked down until the parties involved want to contribute.

 

[EChoil]

I thought it was easy enough to understand but this might be more palatable for you?....

WHAT might be??

 

[Spartan00]

OP knife center , that is what this thread is about right? Hope yall can weed through the arguments and hopefully you guys can get a direct line of communication. Mudding up the thread is not helping anyone . Probably hurting the OP with the clutter just saying.My apologies for adding one more post to the list. Just hope this can be worked out if there is anything to be worked out without having to go through how ever many pages of arguments to get the ops posts.

 

[EChoil]

Translation: "I feel businesses should only charge fees that I personally think are fair."

Your translator needs a download of English. The App Store probably offers some good software for that.....

 

[Quiet]

Your translator needs a download of English. The App Store probably offers some good software for that.....

Sure thing, bud. You keep acting like you're a someone, when actually, you're a no one. No one cares what you think prices or fees should be or not be. You want input? Start a business and do what you want to do.

If Knifecenter is smart, they'll discount your posts entirely like the rest of us have. :thumbup:

 

[craytab]

WHAT might be??

The quote from Quiet. Not hard to understand. It is right there.

 

[Jsega51]

Before this thread gets fully driven into the ground....

OP: You clearly did a good thing to save up to be able to buy this knife. Finding issues with the knife upon receipt is a kick to the face that everyone can agree, plain sucks. Did you contact Rockstead to see if they would fix the knife?? I think this would have been a great way to go rather than just sending it back since it was a knife that you wanted to own over many other options.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Even though i was one who balked at the 5% I have to give credit to knifecenter for explaining themselves. And having not seen the knife in person I probably should have withheld my comment in the first place with hindsightt being 20/20.

Purple. Where you been man? Missed seeing that name.

Pics sure would have been nice. I take pictures of all my knives, not just the super expensive ones with issues.

Thanks man. I was floating around a couple other hobbies. If i disappear im either talking crossbows, cologne (yeah you read that right, lol) or I died.

 

[bodog]

So, a guy says a very expensive knife has cast lines and is adamant that they're not lamination lines. That it's dull. That it's gritty.

After people say he should've taken pictures, his response is to say that his only problem is the grittiness and the other issues aren't a problem after all.

I call BS. The dude has been on BF long enough to know that if he's going to post something like that then pictures are going to be called for. Hell, anyplace, PayPal or anywhere else, would have sought something more than his simple word. Especially when he retracts the most important aspects about the blade being cast steel and the knife being dull which are solid indicators of the knife being a fake or used or both.

So I call BS on that.

I also call BS on Knifecenter saying that a Rockstead is a custom or midtech knife. It's not. It's a high quality production knife. If the knife was the guy's first purchase from knifecenter then he's not a habitual returner.

There should have been no restocking fee at all even if the dude simply regretted the purchase. What makes a rockstead knife a custom or mid-tech? I can argue that it's a production knife more than either of the other two options. Just because they're really expensive and produced in small numbers doesn't mean that they're any less of a production line of knives. Hell, are zero tolerance knives now mid-tech too?

This entire thing sounds like BS. If I was the OP I'd file a BBB complaint until KC decides to fully honor their purchase agreement. But I'd try to be a man of honor and tell them to keep the shipping fees but return the rest.

And the OP needs to quit making crap up to justify a return. If the knife had lines from being casted, then it's an obvious fake and easily documented. That he said that issue didn't matter to him makes me question his entire story.

If I recall correctly the same dude has had some issues with a lubricant. And if it's the same dude, I know he posted pics here and people sympathized with him and the owner of the oil company discovered a flaw in his manufacturing process that caused it.

Crazy thread where it seems both parties were wrong, but KC was more wrong. Unless they can define mid-tech as a class of knives and show how rockstead falls into that class but a zero tolerance doesn't.

Or maybe take the word mid-tech from the agreement and replace it with the phrase "custom knives or knives that we determine to be highly sought after, low production number knives that cost over $600" or whatever price.

Or even more ironclad: "we reserve the right to charge a 5% stocking fee for any returns, if there is an issue with a knife you received from us, contact us with the issue and we may waive the restocking fee."

 

[Atakdog]

So, a guy says a very expensive knife has cast lines and is adamant that they're not lamination lines. That it's dull. That it's gritty.

After people say he should've taken pictures, his response is to say that his only problem is the grittiness and the other issues aren't a problem after all.

I call BS. The dude has been on BF long enough to know that if he's going to post something like that then pictures are going to be called for. Hell, anyplace, PayPal or anywhere else, would have sought something more than his simple word. Especially when he retracts the most important aspects about the blade being cast steel and the knife being dull which are solid indicators of the knife being a fake or used or both.

So I call BS on that.

I also call BS on Knifecenter saying that a Rockstead is a custom or midtech knife. It's not. It's a high quality production knife. If the knife was the guy's first purchase from knifecenter then he's not a habitual returner.

There should have been no restocking fee at all even if the dude simply regretted the purchase. What makes a rockstead knife a custom or mid-tech? I can argue that it's a production knife more than either of the other two options. Just because they're really expensive and produced in small numbers doesn't mean that they're any less of a production line of knives. Hell, are zero tolerance knives now mid-tech too?

This entire thing sounds like BS. If I was the OP I'd file a BBB complaint until KC decides to fully honor their purchase agreement. But I'd try to be a man of honor and tell them to keep the shipping fees but return the rest.

And the OP needs to quit making crap up to justify a return. If the knife had lines from being casted, then it's an obvious fake and easily documented. That he said that issue didn't matter to him makes me question his entire story.

If I recall correctly the same dude has had some issues with a lubricant. And if it's the same dude, I know he posted pics here and people sympathized with him and the owner of the oil company discovered a flaw in his manufacturing process that caused it.

Crazy thread where it seems both parties were wrong, but KC was more wrong. Unless they can define mid-tech as a class of knives and show how rockstead falls into that class but a zero tolerance doesn't.

Or maybe take the word mid-tech from the agreement and replace it with the phrase "custom knives or knives that we determine to be highly sought after, low production number knives that cost over $600" or whatever price.

Or even more ironclad: "we reserve the right to charge a 5% stocking fee for any returns, if there is an issue with a knife you received from us, contact us with the issue and we may waive the restocking fee."

Who cares about what category the knife is classed in? It's an $1800 knife and I think Knifecenter is justified in having the restocking fee for the reasons they stated. I do agree that the OP should show pictures; I suggested it on page 1. One picture of the blade's "cast line" and people will know whether it is real or not. To the OP, you said this was your first Rockstead, so let some people that really know them well chime in on whether or not it is real instead of simply insisting it is as a first time owner.

 

[bodog]

Who cares about what category the knife is classed in?

Evidently knifecenter does or they wouldn't have been able to charge a restocking fee regardless of the price of the knife due to their own stated return policy. And yeah, $100 to restock a 5 or 6 ounce knife is pretty ridiculous. It's not an entire bedroom set or a car that they have to pick up or something. 20 or 30 bucks should be a cap, but it's their business.

I know I won't ever buy a custom or "mid-tech" knife from them, especially an $1800 one. Not if they're so casual about taking a big fee even if the knife sucks.

 

[EChoil]

KC, don't mind the words of some folks who have never run a business. I would not enjoy being nicked by your fee, but then, I also understand (and understood before you posted today) why you have it. :thumbup:

Sure thing, bud. You keep acting like you're a someone, when actually, you're a no one. No one cares what you think prices or fees should be or not be. You want input? Start a business and do what you want to do.

If Knifecenter is smart, they'll discount your posts entirely like the rest of us have. :thumbup:

Well looky you !! Goodness gracious....

Always the smartass, always the little jabs at others in your posts. Consistently; yet so passively (until now) in your attempt to avoid challenge or having to defend your piffling positions. And such eagerness to throw rants regarding similar behavior by others...

Well, Chica, I don't think you're the 'business' girl you keep hinting you are. In fact, I think you're probably somewhere in wet pawnshop polyester, the jacket wrapped around your waist to make you appear thin, sittin' in a damp office with no window starin' at $5 knives in your former tip jar from when you danced at the Red Dog.

Keep speaking for everyone, Miss SelfImportant. You've always seemed to me a mere gasbag.

And your attack rant probably results in closing this thread. Congratulations. *throwing a quarter into your sweaty knife jar*

 

[Jsega51]

OP could have sent it in for repair if it was a knife that he really wanted. Seems to me the knife would be under warranty. From Rockstead's website:

WARRANTY INFORMATION

◆Rockstead warrants the sharpness of the blade. If your knife doesn't cut well, please send it to our company.


◆Rockstead warranty doesn't cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.


◆If we determine there is a defect in the manufacture / materials / workmanship, we will repair free of charge.


◆If a problem with a returned knife is determind to be caused by something other than a defect in manufacture / materials / workmanship, we will inform you of whether the product can be repaired. Also, we will inform to repair cost.


◆Disassembly will void warranty (exclude the HIGO and HIZEN model).

 

[bodog]

OP could have sent it in for repair if it was a knife that he really wanted. Seems to me the knife would be under warranty. From Rockstead's website:

WARRANTY INFORMATION

◆Rockstead warrants the sharpness of the blade. If your knife doesn't cut well, please send it to our company.


◆Rockstead warranty doesn't cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.


◆If we determine there is a defect in the manufacture / materials / workmanship, we will repair free of charge.


◆If a problem with a returned knife is determind to be caused by something other than a defect in manufacture / materials / workmanship, we will inform you of whether the product can be repaired. Also, we will inform to repair cost.


◆Disassembly will void warranty (exclude the HIGO and HIZEN model).

Would've been cheaper. Somehow I'd bet the OP knew what you just posted and was simply let down with what he'd just spent 1800 bucks on so he wanted to return it.

 

[newdebate]

What makes a rockstead knife a custom or mid-tech?

Good question.