knifemaker's challenge

Spideyjg said:
OK given the way the fruit reeks what is the wood like? Wouldn't want to start sanding that and have that fruit smell explode out of it.

Jim
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The way that Fruit reeks in the market place is unforgettable .. Pee Youuu! El Stinko!!:(————-In 1971 the people in Malaysia would pay $1.00 US dollar for one fruit of that stinky stuff! Phew!!!:eek::rolleyes::rolleyes: They even had Popsicles of that stuff:oops:
 
Natlek said:
I like challenge :) I'm in , but no forged if that is acceptable ? 3 "waves" is enough , right ? I have plenty file to destroy ........... :D
Is this knife 3 waves ? I don t know how to count :)

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Natlek, I count 5 total... 3 on top & 2 in the bottom .. very nice Blade!
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
The way that Fruit reeks in the market place is unforgettable .. Pee Youuu! El Stinko!!:(————-In 1971 the people in Malaysia would pay $1.00 US dollar for one fruit of that stinky stuff! Phew!!!:eek::rolleyes::rolleyes: They even had Popsicles of that stuff:oops:
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People swear you get past the smell the taste is great. I'll take their word for it.

Ben got a pic of the Durian wood?
 
Spideyjg said:
People swear you get past the smell the taste is great. I'll take their word for it.

Ben got a pic of the Durian wood?
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Na4zgOe.jpg


again, sorry for the photos. Not my work.

from top left going to the right:

Renglas, Durian, Crotch Klengkeng, curly Klengkeng, burly Klengkeng

Bottom left going right

Curly Monkeypod, Idal burl, macassar ebony
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Natlek, I count 5 total... 3 on top & 2 in the bottom .. very nice Blade!
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By the way Laurence, I will be back in LA in mid June. I have some stuff for you. Given my new disc grinders and granite surface plate, I have some scales that are perfectly dead flat I think you might like. Dont worry, no rosewoods. Just mountains and mountains of stabilized woods.

I also have a damascus knife i forged i would appreciate some guidance on if you have the time.
 
Greenberg Woods said:
By the way Laurence, I will be back in LA in mid June. I have some stuff for you. Given my new disc grinders and granite surface plate, I have some scales that are perfectly dead flat I think you might like. Dont worry, no rosewoods. Just mountains and mountains of stabilized woods.

I also have a damascus knife i forged i would appreciate some guidance on if you have the time.
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Ben, it will be great to see you! We didn’t get together at your spring break I’ll give any guidance I can! Looking forward to seeing these scales too! Call or stop by the Brentwood Farmers Market on any Sunday!
 
Ben, how big are those amboyna burls? They look amazing. So what kind of damascus blade did you pound out? Is that rentals a true rosewood? It looks kind of similar to the kingwood that you have.
 
jdm61 said:
Ben, how big are those amboyna burls? They look amazing. So what kind of damascus blade did you pound out? Is that rentals a true rosewood? It looks kind of similar to the kingwood that you have.
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The ambonya burls are about 14 x 18 x 2 inches, all high grade. Im happy.

I forged a random pattern damascus, i used 15N20 and O2 steel, its a decent sized gyuto. Laurence taught me to make my knives thin, but working with such nice steel as me scared as hell grinding on it.

And no, the Renglas is not a true rosewood. Its funny you say that it looks like kingwood, because the Dutch name of it "The Dutch controlled Indonesia for many many years" means Kingwood! Which is why the name Renglas sounds so much like Regal.
 
Ben, thanks for adding in some historical elements and I would love to hear more. richards338 i had no idea that could be done in excel...im using solidworks and about to just go the oldschool paper/pencil route. I will have to some BF searches on keeping symmetry. I am sure the kris is just like doing a dagger but only a million times harder to grind. Lawrence, I like the idea of grinding on my 2" wheel at bottom of the platen, that will work for me. It is going to be refreshing to make something so different, i love kitchen knives but need to do something else. Ive got some 3/16" thick 440c tucked away.
 
timos- said:
Ben, thanks for adding in some historical elements and I would love to hear more. richards338 i had no idea that could be done in excel...im using solidworks and about to just go the oldschool paper/pencil route. I will have to some BF searches on keeping symmetry. I am sure the kris is just like doing a dagger but only a million times harder to grind. Lawrence, I like the idea of grinding on my 2" wheel at bottom of the platen, that will work for me. It is going to be refreshing to make something so different, i love kitchen knives but need to do something else. Ive got some 3/16" thick 440c tucked away.
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Ill pull out my book over the weekend!
 
Guys , it seems to me that thick steel for this tipe of blade is better ? Make room for correction of mistake ? Say 5mm or even 6mm , what thickness you plan to use ?
 
Ive got some 3/16" 8670. I drew something up last night I really like but it turned into a kris with some persian tendencies, kind of a fantasy knife .

I do think 1/4" or even bigger would be good, depending on how long your blade is going to be. One thing I need to figure out is a bit more on the gaurd area of the Kris knives...it sure is a distinct look but also kind of odd. I need to see one of these things up close. Is it more like a basket hilt? Are they solid metal?

edit to add: found a you tube video...someone did an english translation in the comments too....Even if most of us are going to do a "kris like" knife using stock removal instead of forging a traditional one, it would still be great to figure out how its done. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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timos- said:
Ive got some 3/16" 8670. I drew something up last night I really like but it turned into a kris with some persian tendencies, kind of a fantasy knife .

I do think 1/4" or even bigger would be good, depending on how long your blade is going to be. One thing I need to figure out is a bit more on the gaurd area of the Kris knives...it sure is a distinct look but also kind of odd. I need to see one of these things up close. Is it more like a basket hilt? Are they solid metal?

edit to add: found a you tube video...someone did an english translation in the comments too....Even if most of us are going to do a "kris like" knife using stock removal instead of forging a traditional one, it would still be great to figure out how its done. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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I agree that the guard area is a tough part of the design that I haven't sorted out yet.
I have a rough idea for the handle and a couple options for the pommel (I got a cobra head that I might use).
 
Just some comments:

Forging the blade will keep the direction of the steel's grain following the curves. In damascus, this is absolutely necessary. With modern mono-steel, cutting/grinding the shape will work as far as strength is concerned.

Guards can range from a simple bolster ( no guard) to fancy almost fantasy shaped guards.

Handles should both compliment as well as follow the blade. A bowie handle willlook odd no matter how well it is executed. While you see classic and historic keris with handles at odd angles, an inline handle works and looks best to me.

If you want a classic look, make up low layer count damascus with a rather soft steel between hard steel. Forge the curves in (not as simple as it sounds). Etch heavily.
 
A lot of classic Kris swords were made of what we might consider damascus today. As one source put it,

"distinctive blade-patterning achieved through alternating laminations of iron and nickelous iron"

Sounds like a reason for 1095-15N20 to me!

I am making some progress on the handle symbolism. Its difficult because the book I am using at my school library uses trade names from the 1850's which sometimes i can find, and sometimes just make my best guess to. Here is what I have so far.

Sawo Duren AKA Star apple: Successful career solider. This is not a wood of a nobleman solider, who would enter as an officer or perhaps as a mahout. Sawo Duren would be for a man who made his way up in the ranks.

Mannga AKA Mango: Priest class. It seems there is a strong connection between the fruit giving nature of the mango tree and the idea of priests as bringers of the rain/ good harvest. I cant find any reference to the use of curly or figured mango, but that makes sense as working figured woods with chisels and blades is a difficult proposition, especially since the wood can not be easily riven.

Kayu hitam AKA Ebony: Members of the royal family. This is not as big a deal as may at first seem, like modern nations like Bruni and malaysia, the royal family means ALL the royal family, with many princes having little real power. Kris swords would often be captured, as even if they were not the primary weapon of a solider they would steel be carried in much the same way as a Sihk Kirpan. I did find a reference to a warlord in the east of Java "Decorating his court with Ebony handled Kris to show that he was the great slayer of those with Royal blood"

Ill keep looking, but this is slow going.
 
I tried to find a bit more on the pattern welding and found info on “pamor”. It sounds like traditionally it’s almost a San mai style construction with only the core being steel and the jacketed sides being pattern welded iron of varying nickel content. It appears there are many different patterns that were used for the iron sides and there is meaning behind each pattern. 15n20 with mild steel around a 1084 core as a modern equivalent?
 
A piece of 3/16" CPM 3V was waiting for me after work, so I traced my pattern and did the basic profile.
I still need to clean up the shape of some of the waves.
I may put in some distal taper, but leave the bevels until after HT (this way I postpone all major screw-ups...)

L0LwjXP.jpg
 
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