Knifetests.com-whats YOUR opinion

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Gator97's website has some valuable and nicely organized information on knives. I'll certainly give him that one. A lot of work went into that site.

But let's do some more critical mathematics. It's fun! Gator97 also has 40 of his last 50 posts in this thread. Even though he has a .57 per day post average, those 40 posts have been cranked out in six days! Talk about revving the engines!

Conclusion: There's more going on than just a passing interest in The Great Hockey Mask. There are identity principles at stake here. But maybe, just maybe, all the time and energy could be better spent doing work on that excellent website rather than beating dead horses in a thread that very few people are even reading anymore.

Just trying to make a constructive contribution. :thumbup:
 
So this thread has led me to look into these "knife tests" more. I noticed something about two tests in particular. One was a fairly expensive knife, the other a chinese copy. The chinese copy did "better, " according to knifetests.com. If these "tests" are all the same, it doesn't really make sense that a larger portion of the tip of the chinese knife broke than the original expensive model, but then the expensive knife catastrophically broke sooner. That shows that there is a lot more physics behind these "tests" going on than some people want to admit. I'm an engineering student in my last year of college and know that failures can get pretty complicated pretty fast due to so many variables. Here's an example of differing physics: the Seal 2000 went through the "same" "tests" as the rest, but under water. Does anyone here think they can swing a hammer or knife under water with diving gear on just as fast as they can above water? I doubt it. The resistance from the water is much greater than air, leading to lesser impact forces. However, the Seal 2000 scored rather well because it "passed the tests" in it's intended environment. That's just absurd. I thought the point was simply to see when they break. Try all those tests above water and then compare it to others. By the way, I have nothing against SOG. I own a few of their knives and love them.

You know, the more I read about these "tests," the more I find flaws in the conclusions reached from them. That is why these tests are not good for the knife community. They are misleading. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, an excellent reputation built over 30 years and continuous manufacturing quality awards should speak louder to knife buyers than beating a steel mallet on a knife.
 
dl351 said:
You know, the more I read about these "tests," the more I find flaws in the conclusions reached from them. That is why these tests are not good for the knife community. They are misleading. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, an excellent reputation built over 30 years and continuous manufacturing quality awards should speak louder to knife buyers than beating a steel mallet on a knife.
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I would add that the opinions of trusted peers play a factor in sorting the wheat from the chaff. Therein lies one of the great values of BFC. There are people here with extensive experience with blades. They know knives backwards and forwards in terms of function and utility in the real world. Sometimes that real world usage even includes hard usage in outdoor environs. And none of them had to smash their knives with a hammer to gain this knowledge.
 
Probably not many who already had seen the videos and formed an opinion.

Maybe someone who is just finding out about knifetests though. :thumbup:

I've gotten a better handle on a few BFC members, and that's a good thing.

For one, I've realized Gator97 does do quite a bit for the community with his site on knife steels and his reviews.

Kudos to him. I'll check out that site some more when I have time. You know, when I'm not posting incessantly in this thread. :p
 
This thread has shown to me in probably its starkest relief yet that the oft mentioned knife community, as represented here, is more of a club that encourages conformity. It is often openly hostile to outside of the box thinking and deeply uncomfortable with topics that describe knife use outside of a narrowly defined scope.

For awhile if you mentioned batoning with a knife you would likely get rebuked for doing something abusive and unnecessary. While that has let up some recently, you are still better off mentioning it in a forum like W&SS if you wish to discuss it without a lot of background chatter.

On the positive side, BF is vast and there are a large number of members who seem to care more about experimenting and learning and sharing their accumulated knowledge than spotting and bashing individuals who threaten the established norms.
 
Guyon said:
I would add that the opinions of trusted peers play a factor in sorting the wheat from the chaff.
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Very true. That is similar in the science community. When research and experimentation are done, conclusions are made by the researchers, and reviewed by their peers. There's reason for this! It keeps far out wackos from presenting flawed data as "science."

As for lack of points being addressed, it's probably because we're part of the "close minded" here. You know, I guess trusting knife makers with several years experience doesn't sound too valid. After all, they've never experimented or tried to learn anything, have they? Oh give me a break! Some of these makers have established the norm! Let's not forget what knives are really meant for, either. There are several knife makers out there who I'm sure don't care that their knives might break after being pounded on with a steel mallet. They just don't care! Plenty of people make knives that will slice and cut far better than some of these "miracle" knives on knifetests.com. Take Bark River knives for example. It seems that they pride themselves in making quality knives that take and hold shaving sharp convex edges. That's their focus, not hammer smashing.

I used to be one who was quite impressed with chopping bricks or stabbing through sheet metal. I really don't care about that much any more. Sure, it's nice to have super tough knives. I have plenty of them. I would just hate to see young newbies steered away from quality knives because, heaven forbid, the knife can't live through multiple hammer blows.

If you want something with which you can smash rocks and pry open bank vaults, get some sort of entry tool! That'll be able to stand up to all sorts of beatings!

One last note, a sharp knife is always better than a dull knife!
 
Ok, so I was over on the knifetests.com forum, just snooping, and watched part of the Bark River knife conclusion video. I have to say, Noss mocks science by essentially saying text books are b.s. That's just plain ignorant, and those followers he has accumulated will be led by him in that direction. Science has experimentally determined how several factors affect material failure. Analysis of breaks has created scientific data found in text books. Formulas have been derived from experimental data to determine how stress risers (like cracks, grooves, etc.) affect material failure. Controlled destruction tests have already been performed to show how materials act under certain conditions. Even from my young engineering education, I know for a fact that there are more factors involved with these knives breaking than just "hammer...knife...no break...good!" The problem I see is that Noss has openly encouraged people to ignore years of existing destructive test data because, apparently, he has found a better way. Nonsense, I say.
 
Any social formation regulates itself and tries to limit misguided or ill-advised activities. Such self-policing is an inherent part of how a community survives and/or defines itself. Plenty of folks have weighed in against the practices of noss4 here, not out of some conspiracy to ostracize him, but rather because they see his practices more as grandstanding fluff than valued substance. While such attitudes may upset those who applaud his stunts for whatever reasons, these objections are simply part of normal social regulation.
 
dl351 said:
Ok, so I was over on the knifetests.com forum, just snooping, and watched part of the Bark River knife conclusion video. I have to say, Noss mocks science by essentially saying text books are b.s. That's just plain ignorant, and those followers he has accumulated will be led by him in that direction. Science has experimentally determined how several factors affect material failure. Analysis of breaks has created scientific data found in text books. Formulas have been derived from experimental data to determine how stress risers (like cracks, grooves, etc.) affect material failure. Controlled destruction tests have already been performed to show how materials act under certain conditions. Even from my young engineering education, I know for a fact that there are more factors involved with these knives breaking than just "hammer...knife...no break...good!" The problem I see is that Noss has openly encouraged people to ignore years of existing destructive test data because, apparently, he has found a better way. Nonsense, I say.
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TGHM appears dismissive of many elements that don't aggrandize his efforts.
It's an indicative pattern that's been present since the beginning when he announced his "grand" scheme.
 
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"One last note, a sharp knife is always better than a dull knife!"
it is meaningful just when it is a knife .
do you want a sharp one without butt or tip ?
just look back what you said , young man , " b.s"
is this a engineering educational word or a conclusion of experiment ?
 
dingy said:
"One last note, a sharp knife is always better than a dull knife!"
it is meaningful just when it is a knife .
do you want a sharp one without butt or tip ?
just look back what you said , young man , " b.s"
is this a engineering educational word or a conclusion of experiment ?
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I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say, but my point is this: I take care of all of my knives. Scrap Yard, Swamp Rat, Cold Steel, SOG and Becker. I've seen accounts of knives breaking from every one of these companies. I won't do anything, especially in a survival situation, that may even slightly risk losing a very important cutting tool. Therefore, a sharp, taken care of knife, is much better to me than one that is dull and won't cut because I decided that I needed to hack through bricks and steel.
 
dl351 said:
So this thread has led me to look into these "knife tests" more. I noticed something about two tests in particular. One was a fairly expensive knife, the other a chinese copy. The chinese copy did "better, " according to knifetests.com. If these "tests" are all the same, it doesn't really make sense that a larger portion of the tip of the chinese knife broke than the original expensive model, but then the expensive knife catastrophically broke sooner. That shows that there is a lot more physics behind these "tests" going on than some people want to admit. I'm an engineering student in my last year of college and know that failures can get pretty complicated pretty fast due to so many variables. Here's an example of differing physics: the Seal 2000 went through the "same" "tests" as the rest, but under water. Does anyone here think they can swing a hammer or knife under water with diving gear on just as fast as they can above water? I doubt it. The resistance from the water is much greater than air, leading to lesser impact forces. However, the Seal 2000 scored rather well because it "passed the tests" in it's intended environment. That's just absurd. I thought the point was simply to see when they break. Try all those tests above water and then compare it to others. By the way, I have nothing against SOG. I own a few of their knives and love them.

You know, the more I read about these "tests," the more I find flaws in the conclusions reached from them. That is why these tests are not good for the knife community. They are misleading. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, an excellent reputation built over 30 years and continuous manufacturing quality awards should speak louder to knife buyers than beating a steel mallet on a knife.
Click to expand...

Leave the word variables for the Post scientific test to come. Correctly you should ask to people who would want to do any scientific test!!
Perhaps you can explain those variables to us!? My engineering student.

Yes I know, Chaos theory.
 
theonew said:
This thread has shown to me in probably its starkest relief yet that the oft mentioned knife community, as represented here, is more of a club that encourages conformity.
Click to expand...

It is outrageously arrogant to conclude that, because your opinion is not shared by enough people to suit you, that it must be some sinister conformist conspiracy among those who dare not to agree with you.
 
Guyon said:
Any social formation regulates itself
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No. Any 'regulation' is done by members. Those that feel a need to. Like you do. The forum as such does not do anything. The fact that you take it upon yourself to raise your postcount even more by 'regulating' says nothing of the vast majority of members who choose not to weigh in on this issue, on whatever side. Don't presume to speak for anyone but yourself. I admit I am way too late with this advice, but it's still valid.

and tries to limit misguided or ill-advised activities.
Click to expand...
And as always, those are mostly in the eye of the beholder.

Such self-policing is an inherent part of how a community survives and/or defines itself.
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Self-policing already? No longer content with merely protecting unsuspecting knifenoobs from the The Evil Hockeymasked Brainwasher, you've now made yourself and your soulmates into a veritable policeforce. :thumbup:

While such attitudes may upset those who applaud his stunts for whatever reasons, these objections are simply part of normal social regulation.
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Your attempts to browbeat others into silence by simply repeating ad infinitum your unsubstantiated position do not constitute 'normal social regulation.' Your motives are beyond me and most likely beyond yourself as well, but you are only able to do it because you apparently have nothing better to do than press F5. Couple this with the limitless ambition to set an all time high postcount record, and your behaviour here is pretty much explained.
No one is going to stop you, that much is clear. I can only wish you well with your new job as chief of the BF police force. :rolleyes:
 
Glad to see you've got it all figured out, philwar. Nice going. :thumbup:

When do I get my badge? :p
 
There will be guys like Noss around. If you want Noss silenced, instead of posting in this thread and calling him a dumbdumb, you'd be much better served writing manufacturers and asking them to stop advertising their knives in the manner they do.

People seem to forget, it is manufacturers who prompt the sort of "testing" (term used loosely for all those Science majors out there) by making claims about what their knives can do. Granted, most manufacturers won't come right out and say that their knives can take a pounding from a hammer, but they'll use generalities, like "will stand up to extreme abuse," "will never fail," "high pry-bar strength," and "can withstand the harshest of treatment." By not specifying what exactly they mean, they leave the door wide open for people like Noss to "test" the limits of their wares. Knife magazines don't help much either when it comes to promoting "hard use knives."

There was a knifemeaker back in the 1930's and 40's who used to do demonstrations of his knives buy hammering, yes, hammering them through things like buggy axles. His name was Frank Richtig, and I bet there were people who hated him, though he didn't wear a hockey mask.;)
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