Knives are not prybars!

[craytab]

I didn't buy into the marketing terms.

Okay, then don't use the marketing to justify the expectation that one can pry with a knife. In all the "hard-use" or "overbuilt" stuff you quoted yesterday did you notice where those terms were defined? Nope. Because they aren't and they sure didn't mention prying. These are simply marketing terms. Like when a company calls a knife a "survival" knife. It is utterly meaningless. Buy a knife for what it actually is not what the marketing tells you what you should think of it.

 

[craytab]

Yes, the warranty does say that, but out the other side of their mouth ZT says

So, seems to me ZT/Kai is being, at best, disingenuous.

Okay. I can see that to a certain extent but again, all that stuff they claim is just marketing nonsense. It literally means nothing. Nowhere is it even defined. A survival knife makes you no better at survival than a similar knife that does not use that term "survival" in the marketing.

I feel like am pulling a marcinek over on marcinek. You are the king of anti survival knife marketing. Same goes for "hard-use" or "over-built". It doesn't mean a damn thing

Cue the ZT fans shouting "hater" and "troll."

In again before the lock

 

[NYOutdoors]

Yes, the warranty does say that, but out the other side of their mouth ZT says



So, seems to me ZT/Kai is being, at best, disingenuous.

Cue the ZT fans shouting "hater" and "troll."

How dare you? Fanboys...ATTACK!

 

[Lee D]

Why pry with your knife when you can buy a small prybar tool and simply add it to your keychain? I think I spent eight dollars for the Leatherman Brewzer and it is a far better choice than the tip of any of my knives, no matter how "overbuilt" they are.

 

[marcinek]

Okay. I can see that to a certain extent but again, all that stuff they claim is just marketing nonsense. It literally means nothing. Nowhere is it even defined. A survival knife makes you no better at survival than a similar knife that does not use that term "survival" in the marketing.

I feel like am pulling a marcinek over on marcinek. You are the king of anti survival knife marketing. Same goes for "hard-use" or "over-built". It doesn't mean a damn thing

I couldn't agree more! (Except for the part about pulling a marcinek on marcinek...nobody marcineks marcinek!)

That said, I AM starting to lean towards thinking that if you market a knife as being capable of X (even if you and I know it isn't), and it, in fact, proves to be not capable of X, then maybe people have a right to be cheesed off.

I mean if you are going to market your folders as brutal, tank like beasts, and they arent...them some might say the truth is being played fast and loose with. Of course I know that is marketing's job.

Maybe, more to the point...nobody should be shocked to see people busting their folders by prying at this point. They are being told they can do that.

And I don't think the blame lies entirely on the knife busters...it also lies with the manufacturers.

 

[craytab]

I mean if you are going to market your folders as brutal, tank like beasts, and they arent...them some might say the truth is being played fast and loose with. Of course I know that is marketing's job.

Maybe, more to the point...nobody should be shocked to see people busting their folders by prying at this point. They are being told they can do that.

And I don't think the blame lies entirely on the knife busters...it also lies with the manufacturers.

But where does ZT say you can pry with their knives? They don't. Brutal, tank like beasts isn't defined in anyway. It is gibberish. The warranty clearly states what you can and can't do with your ZT. Why not go with that rather than the meaningless marketing drivel?

People need to take some personal responsibility. "Hey my tank of a knife broke while prying even though they said it was a tank!" Well, what does "tank of a knife" mean? What did they say it meant? Oh wait, it says in the warranty if you do anything other than cut with your knife you are screwed.

"Hey, my 'survival knife' said 'survival', but I died. WTF?"

 

[dogrunner]

...

Anyone can do whatever they want with their knives, but if you break it by being a dummy or have a failure.
Do NOT complain. That's all.

^ yup. And I don't need the opinion of anyone on BF or anywhere else to know if I am a dummy or not. It's my knife and I'll pry if I want to But I sure wouldn't tell anyone if I broke a knife doing that !
Anyway, I seem to be a knife knut, but honestly, it is just a tool. I happen to like nice tools, but if I can't put it to work for whatever it seems like it can handle, then what's the point in having it. I have enough stuff in my pockets - don't feel like carrying a whole tool box unless I'm doing specific jobs that need the tool box.
btw, I have not broken a knife prying, but I have broken a leatherman, that I was using to extract fencing nails instead of using my knife

 

[MatthewSB]

"Hey, my 'survival knife' said 'survival', but I died. WTF?"

That's really funny, sig' worthy

 

[marcinek]

But where does ZT say you can pry with their knives? They don't. Brutal, tank like beasts isn't defined in anyway. It is gibberish. The warranty clearly states what you can and can't do with your ZT. Why not go with that rather than the meaningless marketing drivel?

People need to take some personal responsibility. "Hey my tank of a knife broke while prying even though they said it was a tank!" Well, what does "tank of a knife" mean? What did they say it meant? Oh wait, it says in the warranty if you do anything other than cut with your knife you are screwed.

"Hey, my 'survival knife' said 'survival', but I died. WTF?"

Again, like I said earlier, part of the blame certainly lies on the goofballs who go prying with folders. I just think part also lies with the manufacturers who, coyly, say, "Our knives are heavy duty tanks".

 

[mqqn]

I couldn't agree more! (Except for the part about pulling a marcinek on marcinek...nobody marcineks marcinek!)

That said, I AM starting to lean towards thinking that if you market a knife as being capable of X (even if you and I know it isn't), and it, in fact, proves to be not capable of X, then maybe people have a right to be cheesed off.

I mean if you are going to market your folders as brutal, tank like beasts, and they arent...them some might say the truth is being played fast and loose with. Of course I know that is marketing's job.

Maybe, more to the point...nobody should be shocked to see people busting their folders by prying at this point. They are being told they can do that.

And I don't think the blame lies entirely on the knife busters...it also lies with the manufacturers.

Show me where a manufacturer is telling it's customers that the customer should expect to use the knife as a pry bar. I have not seen that myself, but I only know about a few companies.

ZT does not advertise their knives as prying tools, or hammers. It advertises them as rugged cutting tools, although some people have trouble understanding that.

The warranty expressly states any use other than cutting will void the warranty.

Ford expressly advertises their super duty trucks as being rugged, you know, large dusty men with hard hats drive them.

But, if you were to use the truck to repeatedly drive into the side of a brick wall, using the truck as a battering ram to demolish the wall, would the company be remiss in advertising the truck as a heavy duty truck should it fail at the chosen abusive task?

Get out the pitchforks!



best

mqqn

 

[ToddM]

There's that old saying that goes a knife is the worst and most expensive pry bar and screwdriver you'll likely ever own. I avoid if at all possible prying with a knife, and I can probably count the number of times I've done it on one hand in 30 years and in all cases it was a last resort. I do agree though that manufacturers these days are marketing their knives as overbuilt, heavy duty, extreme use, tanks, etc. etc. and it encourages people to explore those areas. Unfortunately as is true in most industries the product rarely lives up to it's marketing.

It wasn't all that many years ago some manufacturers warned against and even voided warranties for wrist flipping knives open because it was hard on the liner/frame locks, stop pins, etc. and considered abuse. It's interesting now that flippers are all the rage we don't hear anything about flipping knives open being abusive anymore to stop pins and liner/frame locks.

 

[craytab]

Again, like I said earlier, part of the blame certainly lies on the goofballs who go prying with folders. I just think part also lies with the manufacturers who, coyly, say, "Our knives are heavy duty tanks".

I know I know. I am just pointing out the silliness of folks who believe the marketing or who bring it up in the defense or explanation of abusing a knife.

"Our knives are heavy duty tanks".

By this undefined marketing gimmick shouldn't the knife have treads and a Giant gun turret that shoots projectiles? I'm thinking M1 Abrams. Then again, I wouldn't pry with one of those either

BTW, not a fanboy or hater either. I have a few ZTs but I have many many other knives too. I appreciate all my knives for what they are. Cutting tools, some of them pretty damn cool as well.

 

[asdf12345]

Ford expressly advertises their super duty trucks as being rugged, you know, large dusty men with hard hats drive them.

But, if you were to use the truck to repeatedly drive into the side of a brick wall, using the truck as a battering ram to demolish the wall, would the company be remiss in advertising the truck as a heavy duty truck should it fail at the chosen abusive task?

Get out the pitchforks!



best

mqqn

A more accurate analogy would be this: Ford shows their trucks hauling loads of bricks while off-road in their TV ads, so you buy a Ford and try to haul a load of bricks off-road and the truck breaks. You then call Ford up and they say "Sorry, that's not under warranty! We only cover damage caused by driving on a flat road while the truck isn't carrying a load!"

 

[MatthewSB]

Show me where a manufacturer is telling it's customers that the customer should expect to use the knife as a pry bar. I have not seen that myself, but I only know about a few companies.

Strider and ESEE come to mind, but they have warranties to match. Both make knives designed for prying apart vehicle bodies and buildings.

 

[stabman]

In my eyes, it's even worse when you consider that ZT says that anything other than cutting is not covered under the warranty. Now you've got a company that not only markets their knives as "hard use" knives when their knives are not suitable for hard use tasks, but does not cover such use under warranty.

Zero Tolerance did replace the blade of the guy who busted his knife prying open an elevator door.

I cannot recall a situation where they refused to replace a knife, no matter how idiotic the thing done with it was.

They just reserve the right to do so if an amazingly idiotic idiot should show up some day.

 

[mqqn]

A more accurate analogy would be this: Ford shows their trucks hauling loads of bricks while off-road in their TV ads, so you buy a Ford and try to haul a load of bricks off-road and the truck breaks. You then call Ford up and they say "Sorry, that's not under warranty! We only cover damage caused by driving on a flat road while the truck isn't carrying a load!"

I disagree with your take on my analogy.

If your analogy is true then you should be able to show me where a knife manufacturer is advertising that customers should use their folding knife for ANY task other than cutting.

A truck is made for hauling. You should be able to haul.

A knife is made for cutting, you should be able to cut with a knife.

Using a truck as a battering ram is not a valid, warranted use of a truck.

Using a knife as a prybar is not a valid, warranted use of a knife.

best

mqqn

 

[stabman]

Strider and ESEE come to mind, but they have warranties to match. Both make knives designed for prying apart vehicle bodies and buildings.

Their folders sure aren't.
There are pictures of broken SmF's and SnG's floating around.
One guy used his SmF as a jack handle.
One guy used his SnG as a chin-up device...stuck it in a door frame to do chin-ups.
Both broke, right at the hole.

Both were replaced.
But neither will pry apart vehicles or buildings; Strider will just fix them after you fail to pry apart a building or vehicle.

 

[stabman]

But if people want to pry with their knives, so what?
Just don't expect to borrow my knife.

 

[mqqn]

Strider and ESEE come to mind, but they have warranties to match. Both make knives designed for prying apart vehicle bodies and buildings.

Link to advertising, personal recollection is not admissible as evidence.

Busse knives advertise this occasionally, but they are not folding knives either.

best

mqqn

 

[marcinek]

Ford expressly advertises their super duty trucks as being rugged, you know, large dusty men with hard hats drive them.

But, if you were to use the truck to repeatedly drive into the side of a brick wall, using the truck as a battering ram to demolish the wall, would the company be remiss in advertising the truck as a heavy duty truck should it fail at the chosen abusive task?

Get out the pitchforks!



best

mqqn

You know what would knock that wall down? A tank. Which is expressly what ZT promotes their knives as.

Designed and manufactured to stand up to heavy-duty use, Zero Tolerance Knives are built of premium materials. The knives have earned a reputation among their devoted fans as being "built like a tank" or a "real beast" or even being—proudly—"overbuilt".