Show me where "built like a tank" and "hard use" implies "Any use of these products other than cutting is considered misuse and abuse."
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Knives are not prybars!
- Thread starter lazy otter
- Start date
Show me where "built like a tank" and "hard use" implies "Any use of these products other than cutting is considered misuse and abuse."
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2012
- Messages
- 29,050
Show me where "built like a tank" or "hard use" is defined? You can't because they aren't. They are marketing terms. There is that little bit in the warranty that states the knife is only for cutting. Have you seen that part yet?
This is exactly what I'm getting at - it's disingenuous for a company to have a marketing scheme like this when the company themselves considers anything other than cutting to be "misuse and abuse" and won't cover you under warranty should you do anything other than cutting. Some companies don't include stuff like "hard use" in their marketing and they don't cover hard use tasks. Makes sense. Other companies market their knives as hard use, and if you break them doing hard tasks, then they will stand by their claim and cover you under warranty. Also makes sense.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 4,704
Here's a clip from the warranty of the '#1 hard use knives in the world'
Your Emerson knife is built to withstand the rigors of extreme use, but it is a knife, not a chisel, screwdriver or hammer, and it is not intended for use as such. This knife is a cutting tool and is not designed for throwing
Your Emerson knife is built to withstand the rigors of extreme use, but it is a knife, not a chisel, screwdriver or hammer, and it is not intended for use as such. This knife is a cutting tool and is not designed for throwing
Yep, they say that. Where did I say it's only ZT that does this?
GronK
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2001
- Messages
- 19,381
Everyone's talking about prying with their folders but there is another misuse that bothers me more. I see reports that a knife user, "beat the crap out of it and it came back for more", or "beat the snot out of it and it kept on going." I'm not sure I want to ask this question but what the heck were you doing to get crap and/or snot in it? One should probably take care not to insert a hard use folder into the orifices in which those substances are found.
Rival1314
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,424
Every time i read one of your posts i can feel myself getting dumber... seriously, why such a hard on for advertising language? Every company in America uses verbiage that they feel best portrays what they are trying to sell. If they are in compliance with advertising regulations then the only real issue is your disagreement with their implications. Every time Mcdonalds says "im lovin it" i disagree, but im not up in arms on some fast food website playing keyboard commando. Besides the fact you dont like their slogan WTF is your issue? Wanna pry with your knife, go for it, just dont expect the warranty to cover your lack of common sense. Dont like their slogan, dont buy it. Want to voice your opinion, you have....why keep pushing non-sensical arguments?
For what its worth, here is a "hard use" test, while definitley misuse and abuse, it shows what a ZT can do. The reason you dont see this as a sponsored video is because they dont want a bunch of morons misusing their products and blaming KAI for their own stupidity.
[video=youtube;AW0TVkcBFkw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW0TVkcBFkw[/video]
I have no problem with advertising language. What bugs me is when a company doesn't stand by their marketing with their warranty. That goes for any product by any company. CRK doesn't advertise their knives as hard use, so it makes sense that they wouldn't cover hard use in their warranty. Busse advertises their knives as hard use, and their policy is to replace or fix your knife if you've hard used it.
I feel, with respect to ZT and advertising in general, that both parties in this thread have a legitimate point. ZT doesn't imply their hard use knives are for anything other than cutting, but I could see how someone could make a leap of logic, given what the industry has done to the term "hard use" or the ever popular "overbuilt."
Having said that, on the merits of a cutting tool as a cutting tool alone, my Opinel knives or Case slipjoints are just as "hard use" as my ZT.
Having said that, on the merits of a cutting tool as a cutting tool alone, my Opinel knives or Case slipjoints are just as "hard use" as my ZT.
Also I can see your point but to be fair, I've never heard of someone using and breaking their ZT and not getting it replaced by ZT. There are probably stories out there since I don't go looking for them, but in general I believe ZT honors perceived individual hard use.
Not a fanboy by the way, I own one ZT that was a gift from another forumite.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 8,578
You keep talking about kai not honoring their warranty but they do. And they have warrantied abused knives. But if you expect them to openly say "dont worry, be stupid, we will take care of it" then you are a bit unrealistic. companies need to protect themselves from stupidity and those seeking to take advantage. A good example are car warranties. My 2004 wrx had a warranty that specifically stated that certain abuse would not be covered. That didnt stop me from dumping the clutch at redline seeing if i could get all four wheels to break loose. My dealer fixed it for free as a one time courtesy. But it was made very clear that if i came in again with a tranny only working in reverse it would then be my problem. Companies need to protect themselves from ignorance and stupidity. But it doesnt mean they will always choose to deny you.
Rival1314
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,424
All warranty leaves language in place for a company to not be held liable....that being said i have never heard of an instance where a ZT warranty claim was denied. I think you are taking your ficticious concern way overboard. Plus Busse are fixed blades and therefore by design have more structural integrity. If you are gonna try and throw shade use a relevant analogy. Unless you actually have an instance where you felt you were mistreated in your warranty claim, you are just being argumentative, ignorant, and absurd.
And thanks for making me loose another IQ point by having to read more of your drivel.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 4,704
Well said.
You can also be sure that anyone who promises to replace your item (whatever it is, not necessarily a knife) with no questions asked, has already built that replacement cost into the price.
If a widget is going to sell for $5 with no warranty, they may decide to include a limited warranty for $6 or a limited lifetime warranty and sell it for $7 or $8. If they are going to make a 'no questions asked' warranty, you can be sure they will be selling it for $9-$12 because they are factoring in a replacement like you basically bought 2 or more of them.
Why do you think blems with no warranties are so much cheaper? Warranties make up a significant portion of the overall price.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2012
- Messages
- 29,050
Damn it! Every time I crack a piss water Coors lite there is no frozen Silver Bullet train or snow or hot chicks dancing everywhere! That's what happens in the commercials?
You clearly are lacking the ability to understand what marketing is. I thought we were close earlier but I guess not. Also, you seems to lack the ability to read the fine print for information on a product.
I don't know what else can be done for you here.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 4,367
You keep repeating this with regards to ZT. Do you have any examples or are you just making this up? Provide an actual example/proof or stop this nonsense.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 4,704
Not to mention, as MQQN has stated several times:
The actual knife in question did not fail due to prying but simply due to a loose lock insert. Once it was tightened, the knife functioned fine.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2014
- Messages
- 42
At 11:18 into the video, the guy is stabbing the wood then "prying" it ...yes this is a hard use video and he is using the knife to pick and pry. Why shouldnt a knife of this heft be able to pry like he is in the video?
This is true! The knife is working flawlessly. I do not think the lockbar insert became loose while prying but it may have passed QC from the factory this way, I only had the knife for a couple of weeks and that was the first hard use I put it too. Now that everything is tightened the knife when locking sounds better than it did when I got it.
Last edited:
Rival1314
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,424
This knife can do alot, including light prying. However prying isnt included in warranty coverage because eventually some moron is going to try and pry something besides just a wood block. being a folding tool there is a point where it will eventually fail when enough pressure is applied against the pivot...any knife will. They cannot cover gross negligence, therefore like any company have verbiage that covers that. They do however offer blade replacement options, so if your blade snaps your blade it can be replaced at minimal cost. The video i shared is simply an example of someone actually testing the limits of the knife. I would be willing to bet that 95% of the people on this forum, including the ones who claim to "hard use" their own knives, have never done as much damage to a knife in real life situations. If however this guy would have had a lock failure and severed his fingers while pounding it into a block of wood while he was prying, while only wearing a pair of gloves for safety it would not have been a "warranty" issue ...... He also pounds it through a piece of steel, that doesnt mean its a good idea...because pounding a knife into a steel sheet with a mallot while wearing only gloves is something only a moron would do
