Knives are not prybars!

NYOutdoors said:
As much as you guys can't stand to see people posting their disappointment or issues with ZT products, I can't stand to see every person that isn't singing their graces jumped on and berated by their fan club in every single thread.
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best

mqqn
 
Why would a warranty trump what's promised in advertisement? First of all legally it's still misleading advertisement. Second the warranty is usually in the box and can only be read after you gave them your coin already.

I once tried to sell an original still shrink wrapped Microsoft software (which i got as a price at a competition) at ebay. They threatened me with blocking my account. How could I know I'm not allowed to sell it if these conditions where only mentioned somewhere inside the box which I hadn't opened yet? Catch22.

Worse would have been if they advertise it could be sold but then write the oposite inside. Just like the tank knives out there where they strongly hint something and then after the purchase you discover they've been tricking you.
Not that I'd fall for that with a folder but I can see how some younger or less experienced would.

Btw how does an SAK survive the twisting forces when you use its screwdriver? Kind of worse than most prying jobs. No?
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Btw how does an SAK survive the twisting forces when you use its screwdriver? Kind of worse than most prying jobs. No?
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No.
Different direction of forces.
I have, in the past, used the screwdriver on a SAK for prying...and the pivot area got all loose.
It's all about leverage and the way forces are transferred.

Jens Schuetz said:
Why would a warranty trump what's promised in advertisement?
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Because one is basically a commercial.
The other is a legally binding document.
Completely different.
 
stabman said:
No.
Different direction of forces.
I have, in the past, used the screwdriver on a SAK for prying...and the pivot area got all loose.
It's all about leverage and the way forces are transferred.



Because one is basically a commercial.
The other is a legally binding document.
Completely different.
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Aren't those SAK's supposed to be rugged "army" knives?

Just kidding, Just kidding - I don't want to bring the avalanche of SAK Fanbois in here to beat us up like always happens. :foot: :D:D :p

best

mqqn
 
stabman said:
No.
Different direction of forces.
I have, in the past, used the screwdriver on a SAK for prying...and the pivot area got all loose.
It's all about leverage and the way forces are transferred.



Because one is basically a commercial.
The other is a legally binding document.
Completely different.
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Legally binding regarding the actual purchase can only be what is known before the payment is made.

Or else I sell you a knife and hidden inside the box it says now all your monies belong to me.

If they've been lying to you regarding the properties of the purchased object you can ask for refund if it doesn't hold up to the promises /breaks. The can not give you contradicting information after your payment has been made and you unbox it at home.

The warranty is legal but can not protect the seller from promising wrong stuff and then trying to weasel himself out of it.
 
mqqn said:
Aren't those SAK's supposed to be rugged "army" knives?

Just kidding, Just kidding - I don't want to bring the avalanche of SAK Fanbois in here to beat us up like always happens. :foot: :D:D :p

best

mqqn
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I've actually gotten a fair bit of "hard use" out my Swiss Army Knives. :)
The blade does have a tendency to get dull pretty quickly though, but having all those tools in a small package is a good thing. :thumbup:
 
Jens Schuetz said:
The warranty is legal but can not protect the seller from promising wrong stuff and then trying to weasel himself out of it.
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So, you expect a beastly tank because of ad copy?
I just expected a well built knife, which is exactly what I got.
 
stabman said:
I've actually gotten a fair bit of "hard use" out my Swiss Army Knives. :)
The blade does have a tendency to get dull pretty quickly though, but having all those tools in a small package is a good thing. :thumbup:
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I have had a Victorinox Waiter in my pocket every day for 20 years, mostly because it is advertised as an army knife, not because it is functional, easy to carry and has a tool to cover the kinds of things I do (tweeze, pick my teeth, cut things and open cans and bottles and pull corks.)

Of course I can put on a waiter's outfit and try to pry restaurant doors open if I need, you know, because it is the waiter model.

best

mqqn
 
stabman said:
So, you expect a beastly tank because of ad copy?
I just expected a well built knife, which is exactly what I got.
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I was just speaking hypothetical. Not about this particular incident but warranties in general.
The purchase contract is done once they say what you get what they want for it and you make the payment and receive the product.
Backsies aren't legal.

Now here in this case they were pretty clever. Somebody says our knives are like tanks etc. I don't see them being on the hook since they didn't promise anything concrete in my opinion.
If they would have said directly you can pry and then tell you after the purchase hey we fooled you, only then it's a real issue to me.
I read pretty carefully since I studied marketing myself but I can see how some might be mislead.
 
mqqn said:
I have had a Victorinox Waiter in my pocket every day for 20 years, mostly because it is advertised as an army knife, not because it is functional, easy to carry and has a tool to cover the kinds of things I do (tweeze, pick my teeth, cut things and open cans and bottles and pull corks.)

Of course I can put on a waiter's outfit and try to pry restaurant doors open if I need, you know, because it is the waiter model.

best

mqqn
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Well, admittedly I got my first SAK because of MacGyver. :D
It didn't turn me into a secret agent man though...I should sue the television producers!

Jens Schuetz said:
If they would have said directly you can pry and then tell you after the purchase hey we fooled you, only then it's a real issue to me.
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That would be their fault if they had done so, yes.
 
What? I cant use a pm2 as a breaching tool? Well i guess i can scratch it off my list of necessary mall ninja fashion accessories. And to think i was going to sit around and take selfies with that new W.M.D., open it repeatedly and then start a thread about its authenticity. I sure am glad i found out it wont survive any of the tests i never planned on putting it through. And, I dont know what i would have done if the zombie apocalypse started and i only had that to execute all the stealth moves i learned watching the steven segal marathon the other night. Well thank goodness my bud k catalog showed up today. I am sure they will have a hammer i can grind an edge on. Then i can call myself a knife maker.
 
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That's a great question. I'd love to see some examples of items that you would need an over built and tank like knife to just cut.
NYOutdoors said:
I personally own several ZT's and have had great use out of them. Also had great luck with their customer service. With all of that being said, if they don't make these knives thicker, heavier, and more robust to handle non-cutting tasks, then why make them that way? My opinel cuts circles around any ZT I own, so if they were just made for cutting, why "overbuilt" and "like a tank" and sacrifice cutting ability?
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and a pretty thick pocket knife blade :p.
stabman said:
0.156" is a really, really thin pry bar.
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My annoyance with these discussions is that "cutting" is a term used like it designates some sort of extremely specific activity. There are plenty of legitimate "cutting" type activities that involve forces extremely similar to prying. "Prying" and "cutting" are not mutually exclusive at all.


My other beef with this stuff is that there are only two legit reasons for a thick blade on a "cutting" device - to add weight for chopping or to add rigidity. Since a 3" folder is an unlikely chopper, why would a knife maker pair a detrimentally thick and rigid blade with a handle, pivot or lock system that are not similarly rigid?

Is it really so crazy to think that the weakest part of any knife should be the tip, not the handle?


So aside from all the marketing hoopla, either a knife is strong, thick and rigid; or it is fine cutting and light. Thick, heavy and weak does not compute.
 
RX-79G said:
So aside from all the marketing hoopla, either a knife is strong, thick and rigid; or it is fine cutting and light. Thick, heavy and weak does not compute.
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It does sometimes.
Back when I was a teenager, I bought a huge, thick fixed blade from a gun show for $30. Made in Pakistan.
One chop on a pine branch, and the handle split, plus the tang snapped off the blade.
The blade went sailing away...

My friend made it into a spear, which he still has. :)


RX-79G said:
Since a 3" folder is an unlikely chopper, why would a knife maker pair a detrimentally thick and rigid blade with a handle, pivot or lock system that are not similarly rigid?
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Define detrimentally thick.
Everyone's idea of what constitutes that is different.
 
stabman said:
It does sometimes.
Back when I was a teenager, I bought a huge, thick fixed blade from a gun show for $30. Made in Pakistan.
One chop on a pine branch, and the handle split, plus the tang snapped off the blade.
The blade went sailing away...

My friend made it into a spear, which he still has. :)



E
Define detrimentally thick.
Everyone's idea of what constitutes that is different.
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So thick and weak are desirable attributes in a premium knife because breaking is good?

I already defined detrimental - doesn't cut as well. Please reread my post.
 
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