knives used by the red army at stalingrad.

TLM said:
Maybe. just maybe you should check on temps in various months on these locations.

That is the Soviet Russian truth that I count for nothing, without general Winter the SU would have ceased to exist in 1943. Fortunately Gen Winter was not on Hitler's side.

TLM
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You can repeat this again and again, I do not see reason to continue - some people just hopless and stuck with their silly excuses in hope that nothing wrong with them and this is just misfortune. Beleave me - theory of rasial superiority is what make you lose, not General Winter.

If it is more comfortable to you to think that it was simple weather what you can not stand, fine with me. You may continue to think about brave and glorious super race which can not stand little cold - it is not dangerouse any more for the World, because any time Russian can put you back in your warm and cozy hole to think about General Winter and other silly excuses for losers.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
In war like in life it is all about playing the cards you are dealt. The Russian winter exists. Just ask Napolean's slaughtered army as they tried to retreat from Moscow. In WW2 both armies, German and Soviet, were made up of superb, battle hardened soldiers. It was about Hitler's failure to heed the lessons of history and his arrogance. If Stalingrad had fallen before the winter set in, sending the 6th Army there in summer uniforms would not have mattered. Instead Hitler's "ubermenchen" ran into a resolute force fighting for their homeland and their survival. Also, the advantage is always to the defense.
 
Beleave me - theory of rasial superiority is what make you lose, not General Winter.
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RACIAL SUPERIORITY? FYI I am not a German, we actually won our part by not losing like all the others.

I can propably stand much worse weather than you, if the example from winter war holds, several thousand russians soldiers frozen into various fairly strange positions, want to see the pictures? Some knife info, just last week some WW2 pictures were finally released, human ribs next to a plate inside one of the larger Mottis. Supposably too delicate for soviet eyes, that's why the late release. No report what kind of knives were used.

TLM
 
Gentlebeings, the message doesn't seem to be coming across.... Some of us here at Bladeforums are interested in knives, believe it or not. I don't want to close this thread or move it to the Political Arena because the topic is of interest to the denizens of this forum. The topic, in case anyone forgot, is "knives used by the red army at stalingrad" -- and the forum is the Blade Discussion forum.
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I would think that most of the knives on either side would have been bayonets and issue knives along with personal knives belonging to induvidual soldiers.

It is not fair to compare US equipment to what was used by the armies that started the war 5 years before the US did.

Russia won the war in spite of not because of Stalin

Germany would still have lost the war if the US had stayed out.
The real reason the US entered the war had nothing to do with Germany it was to prevent the soviets from turning Europe into a giant communist continent.

If Russians are such superior soldiers explain Finland beating them in 1939?
 
TLM said:
RACIAL SUPERIORITY? FYI I am not a German, we actually won our part by not losing like all the others.

I can propably stand much worse weather than you, if the example from winter war holds, several thousand russians soldiers frozen into various fairly strange positions, want to see the pictures? Some knife info, just last week some WW2 pictures were finally released, human ribs next to a plate inside one of the larger Mottis. Supposably too delicate for soviet eyes, that's why the late release. No report what kind of knives were used.

TLM
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Well if General Winter was on Finnish side and made it harder for Russian to won that War it does not mean that only reason for German to lose was same General Winter. Russian has much more to win then just cold weather.

You may compare temperature in Helsinki and Moscow and after this speak about standing much worse weather - you do not now what are you talking about - again...

Anyway, wellcom to my ignore list!

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Unsub said:
If Russians are such superior soldiers explain Finland beating them in 1939?
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They did not! It was shameful victory, but it was victory. It was because of Gen Winter and stupidity of Stalin and his generals Russian lost too many lifes, but Mennergaim line wos taken over. By the way Mannergame was Russian General served before revolution to Czar.

Here some extraction from hisory article about this war:

Autotranslation from http://service.sch239.spb.ru:8001/i...tm?PHPSESSID=dc39b19b2f477d4f1d59e5f389ce94ff
-------------------------------------------------------------
Russians skillfully used the zamerzsheye sea south of Vyborg, went around city, surrounded it and began to move along the coast to the West. War threatened to become maneuverability; the seizure of the capital was the purpose of the Red Army, and Finns no longer could contradict against enemy significant forces. The losses by those killed, injured comprised more than 20% of the entire number of army (300 thousand). On 7 March Mannerheim appeared in the Finnish military council for the negotiations. Soil for the negotiations they already probed also in the Kremlin. Stalin feared strengthening the positions of the western powers, which nevertheless he decided to render assistance of Finland.

After 8 March for Moscow left official delegation, and the Russians on 11 March took Vyborg, on 13 March war ended. In the course of the negotiations OF THE USSR was obtained entire Karelian isthmus, including Vyborg. The arc of Finnish boundary, which was being bent north of Ladoga lake to the east, it was cut off. Finns had to return to the Soviet Union of Hango to thirty years into the lease. In Pecenga region Finland could have only limited quantity of ships. Then independence was preserved.

The military prestige OF THE USSR fell, although the defeat of Finland was the matter of time. Finnish war showed the explicit incapacity of the command of news mobile warfare under severe conditions. But one should consider in spite of all this that the Red Army took by assault the exteremely powerful defense line - Mannergame line (in the First World War Germans so we could not take Verdun).
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Thanks, Vassili.
 
Vassili, were you educated by the Soviet? You seem to have a very slanted and racist view of the world. The common Russian peoples and soldiers fought valiantly and bravely and gave their lives to defens Mother Russia.

Don't minimize their struggle by inflating and misrepresenting history. Unless that is actually the way you were taught by the Soviet masters.

The Soviet is dead and Russia survives! In a world war no one person nor weapons system nor country wins. Their are many struggles and many losses and some victories.

They are all stories deserving truthful actual rememberance.
 
Nozh2002,

Man, nobody tried to talk badly about Russia, nor Russian people here. Nobody attacked your people, nor your country, but you still want everyone to see things your way. My grandfather fought against the Sovietunion, because he has to do so. He wasn't a Nazi by any means, he helped to escape many Jews in Budapest in '44. He was a officer and gentleman, who equally despised Nazis and Communists, but felt no hatred against the German or the Russian people.

Russia has won WWII. Fact.
Stalin was a ruthless dictator. Fact.
The Red Army was bigger than the forces of the Axis together. Fact.
The Communists of every country were traitors of their own nations, just like the local Nazis and Fascists. Fact.
The circumstances in Austria and in Hungary were way different in the middle of the '50's. Fact.

History doesn't lie, only historians do. It's our responsability to judge things and we better don't abuse this right.

I'm an amateur historian, and I like to think, not an armchair one. Since my country is far smaller and weaker than the USA or Russia, it's quite an easy job; I can be a patriot without ignoring the facts. Facts sometimes can be too stubborn, and truth may be too unpleasant, but we have to accept them, because in the end we are forced to lie even fo ourselves. Vassili, learn your history lesson. It will be good for you.
 
a223cat said:
Vassili, were you educated by the Soviet?
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Sure he was. And me too. We both lived on an unfortunate part of the globe, ruled by communists dictators. The Sovietunion collapsed only 16 years ago and I like to think we are all grown up since then.

OK, we have received two warnings from the moderator already, so I quit this conversation. I'm here to talk about knives.

Over & out.
 
Alright.
Before cougar boots this thread drop the racial stuff.If you want to debate anything guess how each sides knives would stack up in the battle.The red army's NR-40,the british Commando dagger,Ka-Bar and the wermacts standard issue knife.
 
So we have just had a lession in soviet history, actually very little truth in it.

Surprisingly little references to soviet knives in the war literature, the rat tail bayonets are mentioned often. Might be that the nr-40 was not considered essential. The puukko -that everybody carried- is mentioned often, so I could imagine if something similar did exist on the other side we would see some references.

Kind of funny that Wikipedia says that the nr-40 was in a way copied from the puukko. The end result does not resemble one.

TLM
 
NR-40 is a "Russian" variation of puukko. Probably reworked for better penetration. There were also many handmade knives produced by mechanics and solders themselves. Winter played a big, but not a crucial role in German defeat. Russian weapons were rather good. The only problems that many tanks and airplanes were build for an attack, not for defense, just like "Zero".
Germany lost the war at the same minute they attacked SU. No country, at that time, could have managed the war at 3 directions. I do not remember where I have seen the stats, but it was estimated that if SU army did not stopped at Berlin, it would take them 2-3 weeks to march all the way to Atlantic Ocean. With all appreciation to the US for their help in winning the WW2, one can't help to wonder(I understand that I might be banned for this) why US waited till 1943-1944 to start a campaign against Germany, considering that at this time German future defeat became clear
 
Germany lost the war at the same minute they attacked SU.
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That's pure hindsight and not correct at that. They were very close to destroying the SU. That they would have finally lost the war is another thing. Then it would be correct to say that they lost the war when they attacked Poland or when Hitler came into power or....

TLM
 
What was the Wermacht's standard issue knife? I've seen SS and officer's daggers and so forth, but what did the regular Joe (or Klaus) carry?
 
TLM said:
That's pure hindsight and not correct at that. They were very close to destroying the SU. That they would have finally lost the war is another thing. Then it would be correct to say that they lost the war when they attacked Poland or when Hitler came into power or....

TLM
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Read again:
"No country, at that time, could have managed the war at 3 directions."

By the way, Poland was attacked by Germany AND SU from both sides.
Resp. TLM, my view is not a hindsight. There are many things and facts about WW2, that are not known to the West.
If you are interested, PM me, and I will direct you to the sources.
 
There are many things and facts about WW2, that are not known to the West.
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Undoubtedly but are they soviet facts or real facts. The ones Notzh said are "soviet facts" I checked his numbers, they are way off, almost by an order of magnitude.

We happen to have very good information here about both German and Soviet winter warfare, one could almost say first hand facts. Military history has been a hobby of mine for quite a while.

I checked a bit and it looks like the std Wehrmacht soldier was not issued a knife which would have been a bit strange as germans were quite fond of military knives.

TLM
 
The Russian bayonets had no grip and no sheath.They didn't have any regular daggers.The political commissars were behind the peasant and factory workers soldiers with there nagant revolvers to shoot them if they were not fast enough.
When I was in the army at the communist border I could easely see that the reliability of their armour was very poor.The young soldiers were not happy to be there.They were not at all hostile against us.Stalin was working with Hitler to destroy Poland,he invaded Finland without reason and lost a lot of soldiers.Most of you didn't ever see communist crap in real life;f.i. the big helicopters,gunships,wires are everywere, electronics are defect and so on.You didn't need a Stinger to get him down in Afghanistan..The best rifle was the Belgian Fal called bij Winston Churchill the right arm of the free world against communism.
No hard feelings, a friend of the American people who helped us twice against dictatorial regimes.
 
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