Knives you overestimated

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Gaston444 said:
And just where do you think I got the idea that grinding worsened the edge holding of some of them? I tested them before and after: For a majority of them nothing happened, but for some of them something probably did. I usually don't buy CPM knives (and I never had any re-ground thinner), but the few I had were all pristine factory edges and were all screwed from the box. It could be the structure of CPM just soaks up and retains heat better, but probably the higher abrasion resistance also plays a role...

I base my geometry choice on exactly what Randall offers in edge thickness, 0.020" at the shoulders: According to you a stock Randall Model 12 with a hand-applied 30 degree inclusive edge is a sashimi knife? So be it...: It showed no issues in over 1000 chops...

The S30V knife I tested that failed was never re-ground thinner, only the edge was sharpened by hand on a diamond hone...: It kept its 0.040" edge base...: That's a "sashimi" knife to you?: It could hardly slice a tomato...

The Gerber Mark II in S30V micro-folded severely while slicing thin cardboard, this with a stock edge that had a slight strengthening micro-bevel added by hand... Yeah, I'd say the factory grinding has been hard on it...

Gaston
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What CPM-steeled have you "used"??

Nice job outing yourself as being the culprit of your failing edges.
Your grinding and honing skills obviously need more time and patience.
 
Personally, I haven't been disappointed in any of my purchases.

I stupidly chipped the edge of an S30V blade when I cut a vine under pressure and dinged it off a chain link fence with force, nut I don't blame the steel for that move. I also stupidly used the same blade around corrosive chemicals and got some minor pitting. Again, my fault.

I've used S35vn without issue.
 
Gaston444 said:
And just where do you think I got the idea that grinding worsened the edge holding of some of them?
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It is a mystery to me where you get most of your ideas, to be honest. I just figured that this particular one came from the fact that overheating blade steel ruining the heat treatment is extremely common knowledge to anyone interested enough in knives to learn anything about them.

Gaston444 said:
I usually don't buy CPM knives (and I never had any re-ground thinner), but the few I had were all pristine factory edges and were all screwed from the box.
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I only said hard use steel, not that you'd specifically had cpm blades reground. You seem to have a problem with and feel the need make sweeping negative statements about all steels that are not your personal pet budget stainless choices to the point that you dismiss entire families of steel, (carbon, cpm) as terrible despite not even claiming any experience with the vast majority of the members of those families.

Gaston444 said:
I base my geometry choice on exactly what Randall offers in edge thickness, 0.020" at the shoulders: According to you a stock Randall Model 12 with a hand-applied 30 degree inclusive edge is a sashimi knife? So be it...: It showed no issues in over 1000 chops...

I should have left the bit of poetic illustration out of it. That is not a sashimi edge. Point conceded. It also isn't an edge that can reasonably be expected to hold up to the stresses created by a 10 inch blade impacting a hardwood knot without damage. Perhaps you have a unicorn or perhaps you've gotten lucky so far. Perhaps you just just feel the need to try to convince people that your personal favorite knife is superior in all ways to anything that's existed before or since and your tests haven't been particularly fair or objective. We weren't watching you do them.

The S30V knife I tested that failed was never re-ground thinner, only the edge was sharpened by hand on a diamond hone...: It kept its 0.040" edge base...: That's a "sashimi" knife to you?: It could hardly slice a tomato...

The Gerber Mark II in S30V micro-folded severely while slicing thin cardboard, this with a stock edge that had a slight strengthening micro-bevel added by hand... Yeah, I'd say the factory grinding has been hard on it...
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A Gerber in S30V helps provide enough evidence to completely dismiss all powdered metallurgy steels? Got it. I had a cheap promotional give away knife years ago in 420 stainless. Edge holding was absolutely abysmal. Does that make the stainless in your Randall suck? It does according to your reasoning, but most certainly does not by any sort of actual logic.
 
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How about a $2000 RJ Martin Raven (tested and then re-sharpened by hand for over a year, hoping to gradually get down into better steel, before finally giving up), or a $700 custom by Martin Knives in CPM-154? With the $300 limited edition Gerber, that adds up to about $3000 in CPM steel. Just how much am I supposed to invest in this stuff, seeing it instantly fold, at thick angles, on cardboard or Maple wood, before calling it quits?

Sure some 440 was just as bad, or even worse (but so far never Al Mar's Aus-6), but at least you get the sense 440, D-2, and even some carbons, can occasionally get in the vicinity of OK... CPMs so far were for me an amazing step back compared to everything I had previously seen. Whatever the cause, sometimes the emperor just has no clothes.

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
How about a $2000 RJ Martin Raven (tested and then re-sharpened by hand for over a year, hoping to gradually get down into better steel, before finally giving up), or a $700 custom by Martin Knives in CPM-154? With the $300 limited edition Gerber, that adds up to about $3000 in CPM steel. Just how much am I supposed to invest in this stuff, seeing it instantly fold, at thick angles, on cardboard or Maple wood, before calling it quits?
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So three knives in two steels? This is the experience that allows you to make the unequivocal, blanket statement that all CPM steels are terrible? You include steels like S35VN, 3V, 4V, M4, etc, etc despite having no experience with them whatsoever? It boggles the mind how you can expect any of your posts to be taken at all seriously on any subject by anyone with logic like that.

Gaston444 said:
Whatever the cause, sometimes the emperor just has no clothes
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And sometimes the detractor just has no clue.
 
Gaston444 said:
How about a $2000 RJ Martin Raven (tested and then re-sharpened by hand for over a year, hoping to gradually get down into better steel, before finally giving up), or a $700 custom by Martin Knives in CPM-154? With the $300 limited edition Gerber, that adds up to about $3000 in CPM steel. Just how much am I supposed to invest in this stuff, seeing it instantly fold, at thick angles, on cardboard or Maple wood, before calling it quits?

Sure some 440 was just as bad, or even worse (but so far never Al Mar's Aus-6), but at least you get the sense 440, D-2, and even some carbons, can occasionally get in the vicinity of OK... CPMs so far were for me an amazing step back compared to everything I had previously seen. Whatever the cause, sometimes the emperor just has no clothes.

Gaston
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Bless your heart.

You're expecting hollow-handled knives that are most likely hollow ground to perform the job of a chopper.

I'll let you in on a little secret...
There are quite a few reputable makers that design knives just for chopping!
 
Gaston444 said:
How about a $2000 RJ Martin Raven (tested and then re-sharpened by hand for over a year, hoping to gradually get down into better steel, before finally giving up), or a $700 custom by Martin Knives in CPM-154? With the $300 limited edition Gerber, that adds up to about $3000 in CPM steel. Just how much am I supposed to invest in this stuff, seeing it instantly fold, at thick angles, on cardboard or Maple wood, before calling it quits?
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Okay, well remember when you said this:

Gaston444 said:
A steel type having "characteristics"? What about the characteristics of the grinding? The grinding comes mostly last, and can ruin the edge holding in an instant... Why not talk about grind "characteristics" instead? You don't talk about it because you have no means to verify exactly what happened in the grinding of any particular knife, which, even on the cheapest knives, is a long series of uncontrolled hand actions, so you stick to steel types because that makes you feel like you have control over what you are getting...
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It is not the steels fault you used a knife for something it was not intended. And amount spent does not equal what you wanted those knives to do for you. You can get a better knife in 3v from many makers for a lot less that will do what you want, you are choosing not to do so. Again, not CPM's fault. That is on you.

Gaston444 said:
Sure some 440 was just as bad, or even worse (but so far never Al Mar's Aus-6), but at least you get the sense 440, D-2, and even some carbons, can occasionally get in the vicinity of OK... CPMs so far were for me an amazing step back compared to everything I had previously seen. Whatever the cause, sometimes the emperor just has no clothes.
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You contradict yourself sentence to sentence. "some 440 was just as bad or worse" to "CPMs so far were for me an amazing step back compared to everything I had previously seen". Well which one is it. Can't be both. And again, you were using traditionally folding knife steels as choppers, and a gerber :rolleyes:

You can't condemn a whole class of steel with little to no experience with it, especially when the rest of the knife world knows you are wrong.
 
He has his fingers in his ears Cray. He refuses to even entertain any other view points besides his own.
I tried 2 different CPM steels........obviously all CPM steels will fold on thin cardboard. And obviously all CPM steels suck.......obviously.
Seems we have some empirical evidence and can all stop testing now.
Thank you.
 
Gaston444 said:
Beyond CPM steels being terrible, both to sharpen and to hold an edge (probably because they are so hard to grind, so whatever "characteristics" they have is shot to hell by the grinding), and Carbon steels being really easy to sharpen, and having acceptable, but second rate edge holding, I never observed much "characteristics" by "steel type". I tend to go case by case. An individual knife makes it or it doesn't.

Gaston
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The PM2. Overhyped.

God-forbid you get an early 2017 model or anything before then, it'll have more more red & white loctite than you can imagine.
The "hump" in the handle creates a hot spot. The way Spyderco does a 50/50 choil counteracts with the compression lock (On the PM2, have used other compression locks), and it also gets rid of too much cutting edge for such little blade length and such an unnecessary amount of handle legnth.
The lanyard tube is too large to begin with and to add to that Spyderco thinks instead of keeping a reasonably sized handle they'll increase the length instead of moving the tube back.
If you're looking at a PM2 you can see the tip is underneath the lanyard tube showing how much wasted space there is just length wise.
There's so much wasted space in the height of the handle (close to a quarter inch at least).
Edge is above the finger choil instead of below it causing wasted space where cutting edge could, Spyderco and their horrendous finger choil design. (Spyderco go look at choils like a Sigil, Hinderer XM, DCPT-4, RR 4F Mild Flipper, etc.)
The blade if you're not going to shrink the handle to something normal, then it needs to be extended downwards and length wise.(Cutting edge goes past the choil). You could probably shove a 3.5 to 3.5X in. blade in there.
No deep carry options unlike Benchmade.
Spydiehole (Just a 14mm hole nothing special) is uncomfortable as the edges are sharp but deburred.

- A Cru-Wear PM2 Owner
 
redman2006 said:
KOD, if that poor guy had to drink all that Natty to make his ax, no wonder he looks pissed. LOL
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What do you mean? Natural Ice is the gentleman's choice. Just like Old Style, Miller High Life, Old Milwaukee, and Keystone light.

Years ago when I was a freshman in college, I went to a 9 keger of Keystone light. 3 hours later I was still completely sober.
 
Just bringing this back, as I thought about it a bit. I think the Ontario Helle's Belle collaboration was my most disappointing. It was nice to see them bring it to market, but it was just a bit ho-hum quality wise compared to the Bowie stuff Cold Steel and Camillus would make just a couple of years later.

On the flipside, the very cheap at the time, Ontario Frontiersman, which also was Bagwellian in nature was a very fun knife.
 
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