Kreins on Busses

idahoskunk said:
i wonder if tony is sober yet? maybe he passed out :confused: :confused:


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Tony didn't even get to drink yet! But I'm going to start with this:thumbup: I edited my post #57 to clear things up.


bday.jpg
 
Tony,
For the sake of discussion lets say I do a regrind on a knife.

What is there to stand behind?? I grind to a customer supplied specification. What do you see me theoretically needing to correct down the road??

Please be specific.

Tom
 
Tony

I completely understand the marketing aspect that you are bringing up, but have a problem with the ethics of putting my logo on another maker/manufacturers knife. My customers probably wouldn't be to keen about it either.

Tom
 
Tom Krein said:
Tony

I completely understand the marketing aspect that you are bringing up, but have a problem with the ethics of putting my logo on another maker/manufacturers knife. My customers probably wouldn't be to keen about it either.

Tom
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I thought about that and that is a problem. Not so much you logo but a very simpleand small mark like evern smaller than "tk" on thr butt or something. Under the slabs make sense but that may be more work that anyone wants to get into.
 
Tony G said:
I thought about that and that is a problem. Not so much you logo but a very simpleand small mark like evern smaller than "tk" on thr butt or something. Under the slabs make sense but that may be more work that anyone wants to get into.
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Under the handle slabs won't work as they usually are secured, and I also do a good amount of regrinds on the FRN handled spyderco's.

Also how to keep the mark from being counterfeited??

I have considered several times using a vibra pen to put a small "TK" on the blade, but it would be easily copied...

Also Tony, Please take a look at post #67. Thanks!

Tom
 
I have the perfect solution to the "mark or don't mark" question.

Sign each blade that is reground with a sharpie. As none of us use our Busses the signature will be there forever.


I'm sure Bravado would concur with me.

Everybody wins.:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
Tom Krein said:
Tony,
For the sake of discussion lets say I do a regrind on a knife.

What is there to stand behind?? I grind to a customer supplied specification. What do you see me theoretically needing to correct down the road??

Please be specific.

Tom
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OK… I send you a .20 coated green linen slab Game Warden and ask that you take the slabs off and regrind it to .14 and give it a Satin finish. :D

Let’s say that I ask that the tip be thin like the Justabuyer sharpening thread. You do that and do a great job!

Four months later I sell that Green Linen Satin Game Warden on eBay for $370. Hey I never said I wasn’t sleazy. Some new guy gets it and hears how tough Busse knives are and goes and snaps that thin tip off a hunk of wood after watching a Cobalt video.

Where does he sent that Busse? What happens to the value of the Busse Mark?

I’m not saying that you are responsible for fixing it but that the maker (any maker) should get a fair chance if being able to say “hey we didn’t grind this thing and the mark here... “TK” proves it." And if they want to they could say "call TK and see what he'll do for you." You can then say to the owner... "dam that Tony G he screwed you!" And the problem will come home to where it belongs.:eek:


 
Tony has brought up a problem that we have had to deal with on a number of occasions. We had a BME sent into us that had another maker's work done on the swedge. It was pretty bad. . . The customer bought it used and figured it was our fault. . . He was very unhappy. . . We had to fix it because our name was on it. . . and it was going to be out there. . .somewhere. Another customer sent in a knife complaining that the edge was way too thick. . . Someone had ground nearly 1/4" off of the entire edge and then sharpened it. . . the area above the edge was over .100" thick!!!:eek: What do we do? We had to strip the knife and regrind the entire blade. . . . Why?. . Because it was going to be out there. . . somewhere. We have had several blades returned to us that had their primary bevels reground for a much thinner geometry and cutting edge. By the time the last guy gets them, they are way to thin to stand up to the abuse that our knives are designed to take. Our reputation ends up taking a beating because the knives won't.

I constantly read about guys getting someone to make their knives "really cut". . . Trust me, we know how to grind a knife to be very thin and to be a much more effective slicer, but somewhere along the line to thinning a bevel you must know the properties of the steel and what it can take under the worst circumstances. If I made FBMs with .010" thick edges they would cut and slice like demons!!!. . . BUT as soon as that same knife gets into someone elses hands who decides to chop with it and they impact hinges or rocks or ammo crates or bones. . . it's our reputation that gets burned, not the modifier's.

If a customer wants to sign an agreement that he will NEVER sell his Busse knife, and I could etch his name into the blade along with the modifications, I would be glad to put whatever edge or grind that person might want, including an edge so thin that you could practically see through it! Would it perform well? Under certain conditions, yes. . . Under all conditions? NO!. . .

I realize that the customer who has modifications done to his knife is short sighted. He only sees the knife fulfilling his particular needs. I on the other hand, know that that knife will still be out there. . . somewhere. . . and 10 - 20 years from now, our reputation is still the one that will be taking the hit if it doesn't perform as well as one would expect it to. . .

It's a perplexing problem and now I must drink heavily to make it go away!!! :eek:

Jerry :D


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I really don't know how to answer that, but will try.

First if you scenario happened they guy would probably send it to Busse and they WOULD be able to tell that it was not factory. Trust me they know their work. I don't think this is ever going to be a problem for Busse or any other manufacturer.

BUT I still don't see anything for me to stand behind.

A little common since goes a LONG way, I don't think anyone would mistake one of my regrinds for a factory Busse. They are much thinner and they don't have the same finish.

I am still interested in figuring out a way to mark my regrind work that would be acceptable to all.

HONESTLY if the person selling the knife is not upstanding does it really mater? They will find a way to fraud someone... I don't want to make it any easier for them, I just have not found a system that I think will work yet...

Tom
 
Jerry,
I seriously don't want to cause you trouble or work down the road!

What can I do, as a guy doing some mods to help decrease this??

Although I think you are going to drink heavily even if it goes away.... :D

Tom
 
Tom Krein said:
I really don't know how to answer that, but will try.

First if you scenario happened they guy would probably send it to Busse and they WOULD be able to tell that it was not factory. Trust me they know their work. I don't think this is ever going to be a problem for Busse or any other manufacturer.

BUT I still don't see anything for me to stand behind.

A little common since goes a LONG way, I don't think anyone would mistake one of my regrinds for a factory Busse. They are much thinner and they don't have the same finish.

I am still interested in figuring out a way to mark my regrind work that would be acceptable to all.

HONESTLY if the person selling the knife is not upstanding does it really mater? They will find a way to fraud someone... I don't want to make it any easier for them, I just have not found a system that I think will work yet...

Tom
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Tom,

I'm not a knife maker I'm a tax guy that specializes in intangibles like trade marks and their value. Jerry’s post above may have more realistic examples.

After the last 8-9 hours of typing I know why he drinks :eek: :eek: I need that Tequila right NOW:thumbup::thumbup:
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probably next to impossible but it would be nice if you could have a mark that is used by everyone doing the mods , not to show which individual did the work but that work has been done after factory that voids the warranty
 
Tom Krein said:
Jerry,
I seriously don't want to cause you trouble or work down the road!

What can I do, as a guy doing some mods to help decrease this??

Tom
Click to expand...

A mark of some sort would be a good idea. . . but drinking with me would be the best idea of all!!! :thumbup:

Let's drink!

Jerry :D


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I just got my first Busse - a BATAC CG - and after reading here about people re-profiling their blades I was a little nervous about the edge profile. I don't have the equipment or the inclination to re-profile blades.

Well, I dunno why people find this necessary, quite frankly. The BATAC slices like nobody's business. I carved up the USPS box it came in and it went through it like the proverbial hot knife thru butter.

I also diced up some cooked bacon for our dinner with it and it had no probs there either...

My knife cuts like a dream right out the box. No re-profiling necessary here and I'm as happy as a pig in sh*t!
 
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