Kreins on Busses

Buffalohump said:
I just got my first Busse - a BATAC CG - and after reading here about people re-profiling their blades I was a little nervous about the edge profile. I don't have the equipment or the inclination to re-profile blades.

Well, I dunno why people find this necessary, quite frankly. The BATAC slices like nobody's business. I carved up the USPS box it came in and it went through it like the proverbial hot knife thru butter.

I also diced up some cooked bacon for our dinner with it and it had no probs there either...

My knife cuts like a dream right out the box. No re-profiling necessary here and I'm as happy as a pig in sh*t!
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im a little befuddled about this as well. i have kept quiet because i figured i just didnt understand the greater good of a thin profile.

different blade shapes for different tasks? sure.

thinner blade for a "slicer", thicker blade for a "chopper"? sure.

i understand the need for an obtuse edge on say, an axe or hatchet.

but ive never had a busse, or any knife, not cut what i wanted cut.
 
I actually prefer a thicker edge for my knives as I have more confidence in 'em. When I want something really thin, to sharpen a pencil or whatever, I usually grab my SAK. No, not that sack, the other SAK :D
 
as a butcher my working knives are only a few mm's thick.

Because of this I want to get my AD reground by Mr Krein somewhere along the line so I can take it out bush and field prep small game. I wouldn't use it for anything other than meat prep.

Also regarding the marks.

If I were to buy a knife four owners later and really LIKE the mod, I may want to know who did it so that they can do something else for me

I wouldn't really want the blade marked but maybe the tang (spine) between the slabs.

of course I couldn't care that much if it was marked.

I do think that Jerry has a very good point with some of those troubles he pointed out although I don't think it can be fixed without him either resigning to the fact that he'll have to fix someone's stuff up or his rep will take a slap every now and then
 
I think a makers mark for Mods would be nice.
I like the V Butch Vallotton puts on his Sebbie mods:thumbup::thumbup:
Lets people know it was done by a worthy artisan.
reevedaplain.jpg
 
Let's just watch the MOVIE on page three and forget about this thread. Who's buy'n first round?!
Lycosa
 
Buffalohump said:
I just got my first Busse - a BATAC CG - and after reading here about people re-profiling their blades I was a little nervous about the edge profile. I don't have the equipment or the inclination to re-profile blades.

Well, I dunno why people find this necessary, quite frankly. The BATAC slices like nobody's business. I carved up the USPS box it came in and it went through it like the proverbial hot knife thru butter.

I also diced up some cooked bacon for our dinner with it and it had no probs there either...

My knife cuts like a dream right out the box. No re-profiling necessary here and I'm as happy as a pig in sh*t!
Click to expand...

Young fellow, there are Knife Knuts on this forum ... indeed, Knife Knuts who are our very Hog Brothers ... who will never be satisifed until they can make a knife slice the air and make it bleed!

And I kid you not!! :eek:

...and there is nothing wrong with that. It just gets in the way of my mad desire to chop down large hardwoods with a knife. :o
 
Ok, well, both sides of this discussion are interesting and it sucks to be the knifemaker. However, I still feel that the owner of the knife is ultimately responsible for what he does or what he buys.

I think Busse and Co, should put out a standard of what kind of work is covered and how steep an edge will be covered on a large knife versus a small knife. I think this would go a long way to satisfying everyone. You cannot just say, no mods are allowed. EVERYONE resharpens and changes the grind on their knife. That is a fact of life. You cannot say, "no one is allowed to change the grind of the knife" There are people on this forum that can make a knife slice and chop without taking on damage. Ban, for example proved it with his FBM, which he chopped tons of wood and the edge never had a problem, that I know of.

If I see knives made of other steels being taken down to a thinner edge, I don't see why I could not do that to mine. As an example I will quote Cliff on a test he did with his SHBM, he took it down so far that the edge rippled at 8.5 degrees:eek:

He estimated that 12.5 degrees perside, 25 included would be about perfect. I am sure that is still quite a bit thinner than the factory. In fact, I would bet that the asymetrical edge is quite a bit thinner than todays factory offering.

I think that common sense mods should be fine, and sure I can send it in to the shop to have the mods done, but I would then have to wait 6-9 months, whereas I can get the same thing done in less than a month from another knifemaker.

Also, I like my slotted bolt busses, and I am not going to send them into the shop for refinishing only to fnd out they put tubes instead of my old bolts back on.

Cliff Stamp said:
As of late I have been doing some chopping with a BM-E (early one bought when they first came out), and my SHBM. Now my BM isn't exactly standard, it is 0.275", no clip to the point, and weighs 660 g. I have also significantly changed the edge profile, so I wasn't looking at the raw performance as much as looking at how they handled, to check out the new grip mods mainly. More on that later.

I started off cutting some fresh wood, mainly pine, that went ok. Later on I switched to scrap lumber as I didn't have as much free time, and had to fit in chopping whenever I got a free half hour or so. This is when the surprises started setting in. I could not keep a working edge on my BM. The edge would constantly roll to a visible degree, you could see it bend or ripple. To be specific these were just barely visible by eye, the steel was 0.005" to 0.010" thick behind the bend.

Now the ripples were easily removed with a little pressure, no chipping as I would have expected. However I was not overly pleased by having to stop chopping every half dozen blocks (I was using mainly 4x4 and 6x6 posts), to fix the edge. Now I knew that the edge was much more acute than standard, but from memory, the last time I checked it, it wasn't that thin that I would expect the the damage to set in this frequently.

The last draw was when I went back to fresh wood and during bucking some spruce I whacked the knife into a knot in the worst possible way. It was kind of "movie-like" as I oculd sort of feel the chop happening in slow motion. I knew it was going to be bad and when it hit the knot I didn't have to check the edge to know it was going to be dented. Sure enough it was rippled to this time about 0.020" thick.

I straightened it with a nail set and a hammer and then adjusted the profile slightly by adding a convex taper to the last one mm or so of edge. I then checked the edge profile to see how much I had thickened it. It spec'ed out at ~11 degrees per side in the last bit of edge. This took me back because that is where I thought it was before I just altered it.

So I check the primary edge profile and it is ~8.5 degrees per side. Ok, now I understand why it was rippling so easy (relative of course, it only got damaged on knots with full heavy swings). This was a flat bevel, no convex taper, on a heavy blade balanced knife. Not bad at all. And of course, no chipping and all damage was easily repaired with the aid of a large hammer.

For those curious, I checked my notes on the ~8.5 degree mod, I did this to check just how much damage would be induce with wood working as I figured that INFI would set a solid benchmark. I was trying to figure out just how low you could go and still be functional. I seems that a sub mm micro-bevel would be enough for all but the worst impacts.

-Cliff
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Cliff Stamp said:
It is holding up fine so far, a dozen pieces of seasoned 2x4 and 4x4 yesterday with no problems, including a few knots, but no really bad hits. I will probably go up to 25 degrees included in the last little bit (mm or so), to allow it to handle the harder knots in the rougher wood.
To determine the edge angle you need to measure the thickness and the width, this can be done with a caliper which are not that expensive, you don't need a really high end one to estimate the edge angle on a knife. Divide the thickness by the width and multiple by 60 to get the included angle. This is an estimate of the trig relationship, but will be with a degree for cutlery angles.

For example 0.01" / 0.02" * 60 = 30 degrees included. The exact answer is 28.1 degrees, which is obtained by arctan (0.01 / 0.02 / 2)*2 .

Blademan I look forward to your comments.

Picture attached.

-Cliff
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Of course the responsibility associated with modifying a knife resides with the owner. No reasonable person would dispute that. If you're going to buy something on the secondary market, it's up to you to understand what it is.

Vallotton's mark on the 'benza is there to authenticate his work, not Reeve's. If anything, Tom would be marking regrinds to protect the value of the mod's, not the original knife.

Out of 20 Busses that I would consider to be users, two of mine have been reground by Tom. One would have to be running on a pretty lean mix to mistake either of these knives for off-the-shelf Busses. As it happens, both of the knives in question came sterile from Jerry's shop. Seems like there's more potential ambiguity in that regard than as a result of the regrinds. Not that I have plans to sell either of them. :)

Bottom line... people have to use a little common sense. There is no foolproof system to allow for absolute protection from other people's malice or stupidity.
 
Well now,

Agreeing to keep a particular knife for life, to not ever sell it.

Maybe even to agree to pass it down to one of my kids.

And I get to say how it gets ground.

I get "My" Name on this knife?

Too Cool, this makes me think about ordering from the factory again, Something I have not done since early 2002, something I thought I would not do again.

Interesting
 
Won't let me Edit,

I would like to add, the knife I have in mind is my Pork Belly Skinner.

Thin the edge out, maybe even Hollow grind, while leaving all of the Ridges and the coating, so that the skin and fat are less likely to stick to the sides of the blade while working inside a large animal.

Nothing But Edge Baby
 
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