Late model muscle....?

Search Car and Driver for a report on mid-engine 2 seaters. There was an article about two years ago comparing the Audi TT, S2000, BMW Z4 3.0, Porsche Boxter and Nissan 350Z Touring.......The S2000 finished in top place.

As I said, I've had both the S2000 and the NSX. Personal preference is the NSX, but the S2000 was a lot of fun, too. Both are quick/fast enough to get you in a LOT of trouble (howz about 146 in a 65?)

Another NSX is in my future, but finding a Targa, in very good to excellent condition with low miles is still north of a $ 40,000 purchase on a 10 year old car...wish now I'd never sold mine...

HA! I found the link: www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/6846/the-blow-dryers.html
 
No one had mentioned the true sleeper of American cars. The current Pontiac GTO. real world car, 420 hp and will eat all but exotica for lunch. easily found for under 20K used. This has the zo6 motor in a real world 4 seater car. Great handling, killer brakes, and decent build quality.

If you want a car that will be fast and still insurable, try a 540 I BMW with the stick, It will handle as well as a most of the sports cars discussed here, with 4 doors, a sleeper attitude and nearly the HP of the M series without the upcharge from the insurance companies. My wife drives one as a daily driver and loves it. I love it too, but rarely get to drive it.

IMHO, the mustangs are always one step away from being super cars. I had a 5.0 for a few months, and it was nice, but had some real handling miscues to go with the HP it was upped to. The shifter was horrid and the brakes would not stand for long term spirited driving without going away.

What ever you do, do not dump the Nova if it is in repairable shape, The upside of these is going to be huge as the "status" muscle cars go astronomic, the econo muscle cars are really picking in worth.

trying to find a good nova, dart, duster, tempest, even a maverick is getting really hard.

For foreign cars, I would look at the subaru, a toyota celica, a BMW 3 or 5
the infiniti I and M are pretty good cars, actually really good cars.
the G35 is a offshoot of the japanese only Skyline and the Z350 sports coupe, early models were way underrated in the HP dept. It was listed as a 260 hp motor, but they would run off and hid from many cars in the 300 and up classes. Whether this was to slide them under a insurance cap or what is not known, the same motor picked up 40 hp in the ratings with no part number change, so it was a fib. The G series are front motor, rear drive cars that are flat out fun to drive, I had one after my dealer was unable to repair my Frontier's transfer cases issues for a couple of months, The first year frontiers had a computer issue that would engage the transfer case for no apparent reason.

Porsches are cool, but fragile and need TLC from a dealer to keep on spot.
In the past they were horrible cars to have in any kind of inclement weather as they had almost no undercoating, (it added weight) and the old time wags would say if you pulled a porsche into your garage and turned off the lights and listened, you could hear it rust...Newer porsches are supposed to be better, but I will wait a few years to see...

The smaller Mercedes C class cars have jumped a long way in the sports dept, going from faculty status cars, to down right zippy now that stick shifts and clutch pedals are available again. the C230K convertable is a sweet ride.

I would stay away from the audi's unless you have a good deal close by, Many of the AUDI's are tremendous cars, but when they go south, they go in a big hurry.
 
Porsches are cool, but fragile and need TLC from a dealer to keep on spot.
Porsch replaced Lexus this year as the #1 brand for initial quality. Porsche didn't do well in the long-term dependability survey though. The distance from a dealership would definitely be something to consider when buying any vehicle.

SPXTrader,
Thanks for that link. I read every review I could find before buying my "S". But still, there's no substitute for test driving. :D

-Bob
 
Test drive a BMW M3 or M5 and compare it to anything, most people find that it is an exceptionally well balanced car.

Think of it this way, they're usually not best in any one category but they are very very good in ALL categories.

Most cars disappoint in some way or another, these do not and tend to excel at everything.

Have fun!

Chris
 
Clocked @ 179 at Talladega (on street tires), and @ 146 on I-64...

To be fair, it did have the full CompTech suspension and supercharger, and Brembo brakes all around. Dyno'ed at 465 RWHP @ 7400 RPM...
 
I'm going to buck the norm here. For half of what you'd spend on a new car, finish the Nova. Crappy drums? Wilwood discs. Crappy steering? Many shops sell good suspension stuff to make it handle better than a boat. The car is already paid for (right?), it will only go up in value and nothing beats the sound of a well built small/big block thru a set of 3inch pipes. Newer cars are "nice" with the air conditioning, good handling, etc., but I keep going back to the old muscle cars for the "fun" factor. Much easier to wrench on and turn heads when you drive by. The only car I've driven that even came close to the "snap your neck take-off" of my heavily built 68 Road Runner is my buddies 2006 Mitsubishi EVO MR. He has a dyno proven 386hp AT THE WHEELS. VERY fun, but VERY spendy to get it there, plus right around 35K for the car alone.
 
+1, partially...finish the Nova in good time, and do it right. It will be worth a lot more in the future than some Mitsubishi (the same people that brought the the Zero to Pearl Harbor) or Toyota.

m1marty is right. There are multiple options for brakes, suspension and steering that you can do to bring it up to somewhat current standards...without diminishing the true value of the car.
 
Yes....that's the most tempting alternative...to throw 5-8k at the Nova...TCI suspension, new motor/ignition, better steering, etc.

I don't care about the A/C really...it's more about reliability, safety and of course....FUN. :D


Keep the suggestions coming...they're great!


I'm still undecided...hoping to see if there's an import that'll make me want to forget the Nova. Otherwise...it'll be seeing some upgrades...probably sooner than later...
 
Before you go off and do a bunch of shit to your car, do the numbers match? I mean block, heads and VIN? If so rebuild what you've got. It's worth a ton in the future. If not, grab a 4 bolt main 350, bore it .60, big cam, big valves, full head work (or something like Trick Flows), Intake, Headers, exhaust and a good tune (for that Holley 750 DP). Then work on the suspension.

I guess I should have asked what you intend on doing with the car first...1/4 mile or track dog? Or just a nice street monster...?

Reason I say this is I just sold my '72 vette...numbers matching, with a full race motor as an extra! With all the parts I had, I could go from a 1/4 mile strip car to a open circuit car with just a few hours work. It's not that hard to do...
 
Its a shame you dont get 'european american' cars over there

I just bought my dream day to day car Ford Mondeo ST TDCI only a second slower 0 - 60 than the 3.0l V6 petrol AND 40mpg! stunning stunning road holding and it cost about 1/3 of the cost of the equivalent BMW...

Word on the street is the impretza WRX STI are ****ed after a few years because they are tuned so highly ... all that power out of a 2l petrol engine somethings got to give.


Ive always wondered what sort of 0 - 60 time do you get out of typical american muscle cars? are cars that got 0 - 60 in 6 - 9 seconds considered fast out there? I guess road holding isnt as important as power with your amazing roads (yes im jealous!)


0-60 in 6-9 seconds is considered SLOW in this neck of the woods, my vette will run a sub 5 sec 0-60 FWIW and my vette also doesnt do to bad at holding the road.
 
13+ = turtle
10-12.9 = slow
7-9.9 = average
5-6.9 = fast
3-4.9 = sex

If I had to actually come up with a list. I don't get to see too many < 5sec cars. Your average quality sports car should be 7-9sec. stock, and the higher end sports car run more in the 5's on average?
 
FWIW if i was gonna build a nova or camaro (actually i have lol) i would buy a completed or near completed car vs rebuilding it myself, usually ya can find one thats been redone or one thats been 2/3 completed and the guy ran outta money/ran outta will to do it/etc a lot cheaper vs starting from scratch.

also depends on the car, a std non - SS 2 door '71 nova isnt gonna be worth a lot of money vs a '70 nova SS w/a 375HP/396 and a 4 spd.

imho the best thing to do with just a std car (ie not a Z/28 or SS) is to put in a GM crate engine and completely redo the suspension/brakes/etc to were it looks just like an old car but has the reliability of a new car, driving an old muscle car (ie i had a '72 nova SS w/a stroked 350, solid lifter camshaft, headers, BM tranny, 4.10 gears, etc, etc and also a fairly stock '71 Z28) with the plugs fouling in about a week/4.10 gears/setting the solid lifters monthly unless ya really enjoy working on cars it quickly becomes a PITA if its an every day driver, if ya only drive it occasionally, not a big deal. i have put no telling how many miles on old cars like that when i was young and they were worth really nothing (the mid 70's) so i had ops to drive a bunch, SS454 chevelles, cobra torinos and mustangs, Z/28s, BOSS mustangs (302 and 429), etc and while they are a blast no AC is a con, along with being high maintanance and talk about lousy gas mileage lol.

i wanna get a '69 Z/28, my bud goes to a lot of auctions and says he see's non number matching '69s go for $25,000 to $30,000 imho a good investment, a number matching one will go for at least $50,000. but it would be a occasional driver, not a daily.

also an old BOSS 302 would be cool. red with black striping/sports slatts/shaker scoop/front& rear spoilers would be the bomb, i always liked BOSS 'stangs set up like that, actually would be the only 'stang i would have lol. also the prices on those arent thru the roof like on Z/28s , not yet anyway, another good investment.
 
also the fast cars of this era will outrun the fast cars of the muscle car era, the new corvette Z06 w/the 500 HP will smoke any other vette ever made, bar none, my vette, a '95 LT1, will run 13.63 in the 1/4 (i have done it myself at temple academy dragway) which VERY few cars of the muscle car era will best, my '71 Z/28 ran mid 14's and my nova ran high 12's FWIW, your average muscle car, say a '70 BOSS 302, would run mid 14's, not many would run a sub 14 sec 1/4 mile with no slicks/thru the muffs, oh sure hemi roadrunners would, SS454 chevelles with the 450 HP LS6 engine would too, but they were rare in the day as they are now.

the new vipers or the Z06 vette will both run very low 4 second 0-60 if not sub 4 second, with a good driver.
 
also the fast cars of this era will outrun the fast cars of the muscle car era, the new corvette Z06 w/the 500 HP will smoke any other vette ever made, bar none, my vette, a '95 LT1, will run 13.63 in the 1/4 (i have done it myself at temple academy dragway) which VERY few cars of the muscle car era will best, my '71 Z/28 ran mid 14's and my nova ran high 12's FWIW, your average muscle car, say a '70 BOSS 302, would run mid 14's, not many would run a sub 14 sec 1/4 mile with no slicks/thru the muffs, oh sure hemi roadrunners would, SS454 chevelles with the 450 HP LS6 engine would too, but they were rare in the day as they are now.

the new vipers or the Z06 vette will both run very low 4 second 0-60 if not sub 4 second, with a good driver.


Very good point. I love old musclecars. I hit the Carlisle shows & the NMCA shootout dragrace at Maple Grove ever summer. But...new cars are really getting fast. There are so many cars running 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds now it's crazy. My stock Subaru Forester XT is running 13.9 in the quarter mile. It's a Forester for God's sake!? :eek:

We are living the "horsepower wars" all over again. I'd say that's a great thing! :D
 
a vote for the Subaru WRX STi here

i got one of the first 04's back in 03 and have loved every minute of it

4 doors, AWD and 0-60 in 4.6 seconds

i actually had 5 adults in the thing last week, but it was a bit cramped

it doesn't have the fit and finish of a BMW, but i doesn't have the price tag either

i'm not that happy with the mileage, but i have gotten over 23 MPG on the highway
 
13+ = turtle
10-12.9 = slow
7-9.9 = average
5-6.9 = fast
3-4.9 = sex

The Ariel Atom does 0-60 in under three seconds!!
0-100 is something like six seconds.

Of course is speed is what your after, the Suzuki Hayabusa would absolutely spank any car that's been listed. And for a fraction of the price of anything that's been listed.
0-60, 2.67 seconds
0-100, 5.3 seconds
1/4 miles, 9.9 seconds
top speed stock, 186mph
Over 200mph is possible with simple inexpensive mods
250+ mph is possible with extensive modification
price brand-new, $11,149

-Bob
 
If you like muscle cars, go drive a new GTO, it really is worthy of the name.

As far as crate engines go, we (a good friend and I) just test drove his 1978 4 door malibu, (the really boxy version) with a GM crate motor and a 6 speed out of a dumped camaro. The new big inch small block crates are VERY strong with basic proven parts that will last a long time. The car came from the factory as one of the last factory 3 speed/six cylinder cars. it was his gram's car and it was really pretty clean to start with. The new motor, tranny and diff are all pretty stock and yet it just snaps when you give the gas. This crate is the 400 hp 6.0L with a one year warranty and is the same motor put into the LS2 corvettes. However with headers, some chip work, and some other relatively cheap adds, the HP on this one is up to about 475. This in a ugly, boxy, 4 door sedan is a LOT of fun when up pull up next to some kid in his kitted out Honda. The next project is tubbing the rears for added tire space.

If you really got some cash burning a hole in your pocket, try one of these.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnse...216+115+310571&autoview=sku&Ntk=KeywordSearch


Regarding the test that says Porsche is no1 in initial quality, perhaps, but every one i know who has had one, has given them up by the time they got to 50K miles, when most cars are getting to be broken in, Porsches are getting broke. That is also the reason you can find used ones for great deals, until you start looking and find out it needs a new clutch, (at 4300 bucks,) or new half shafts (600 per side) or the injectors in the turbo's are worn and you need to pop nearly 415 bucks per injector, parts only, to get them fixed...big reason they are doctors cars. Fry a turbo bearing and it will set you back nearly 5 grand. Cus you can only buy a new turbo, not a bearing.
 
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