Les Robertson would be proud part duh, Continuation from another thread

[Don Hanson III]

Ken, I've recently bought some of the best stag I've ever seen. Mostly scales, but some tapers also.

Stag is not as plentiful or as cheap as it used to be, but it's still available.

That said, all great natural handle material is harder to find and cost a lot more today.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

Ken, I've recently bought some of the best stag I've ever seen. Mostly scales, but some tapers also.

Stag is not as plentiful or as cheap as it used to be, but it's still available.

That said, all great natural handle material is harder to find and cost a lot more today.

I'll have these makers contact you to get the stag for my knives.

 

[Don Hanson III]

I'll have these makers contact you to get the stag for my knives.

Haha.

Both guys I buy stag from were at the Little Rock show. Were your makers there?

Price might have something to do with it.

 

[Wulf]

I've seen some very high prices on fossil ivories lately as well... There was interesting article about mammoth ivory in National Geographic last month pointing out a sharp rise in demand from China. The Chinese have a long history of carving ivory for ornamental purposes, and with the economic growth and urbanization of its emerging middle and upper classes over the last several years the demand for materials has risen appreciably. Much of the Siberian mammoth ivory now goes directly to China, bypassing us poor knifemakers and collectors altogether

Anyway, with regards to this thread, prices of individual knives and various market segments don't always seem to make sense to the objective, impartial observer, but who among us is objective? I often see very high quality, high performance handmade knives selling for less money than trendy mass-produced factory knives, and though it doesn't seem rational to me, it is what the market dictates. Buyers and sellers will disagree on value; prices will fluctuate. Some will make money, some will lose money, and others will hardly even notice.

Last month gold traded north of $1,600 an ounce, today it trades with a 13 handle... Supply, demand, and perception of value change constantly. There is no right or wrong, just early or late

 

[Kevin Jones]

Well, something here does not compute for me. I have two orders I am working on with makers who are very well known (everyone here knows them) and they both told me recently (within the past month) that they will not make stag-handled knives anymore because of the difficulty they have finding suitable, quality, stag material.


Could it be that low quality stag material is plentiful, but difficult to sell, while high quality stag material sells like hotcakes but is harder to find than ever before (and/or at higher prices)? And perhaps the same applies to mammoth ivory?

Part of it could be that some makers would rather work with other materials than stag. Wood and synthetic materials are easier and more forgiving.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

Part of it could be that some makers would rather work with other materials than stag. Wood and synthetic materials are easier and more forgiving.

Maybe. Who knows? But like I posted, they told me that they weren't doing stag-handled knives because of the difficulty they have finding suitable, quality, stag material. They were both pretty clear about that. But maybe they just don't want to make stag knives and were lying to me as an excuse to avoid stag. All I know is what I was told.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Maybe. Who knows? But like I posted, they told me that they weren't doing stag-handled knives because of the difficulty they have finding suitable, quality, stag material. They were both pretty clear about that. But maybe they just don't want to make stag knives and were lying to me as an excuse to avoid stag. All I know is what I was told.

Ken, not trying to imply that anyone's lying, just saying some makers don't need much excuse to steer away from stag and ivory.
The guys who like using it are finding the good stuff it just takes more effort.

 

[rickmenefee]

Lots of the new collectors want handle material that does not require maintance. Natural handle material shrink, warp and crack! I think the buyers are just getting smarter.

 

[jdm61]

Ken, not trying to imply that anyone's lying, just saying some makers don't need much excuse to steer away from stag and ivory.
The guys who like using it are finding the good stuff it just takes more effort.

Kevin, I have not worked with stag scales, but good quality stag carvers are, IMO, the ultimate lazy man's natural handle material. They require minimal shaping, etc.. You basically build the knife to fit the handle.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin, I have not worked with stag scales, but good quality stag carvers are, IMO, the ultimate lazy man's natural handle material. They require minimal shaping, etc.. You basically build the knife to fit the handle.

Joe, why have you not worked with stag scales?

 

[hardheart]

Lots of the new collectors want handle material that does not require maintance. Natural handle material shrink, warp and crack! I think the buyers are just getting smarter.

I wonder when was the last time someone posting here ordered NS or brass hardware on their knives.

 

[rickmenefee]

I wonder when was the last time someone posting here ordered NS or brass hardware on their knives.

Buyers are getting smarter!!

 

[jdm61]

Please refer to the previous lazy comment. I have one big pair that I have owned for a few years, but I just can't figure out how to make them work. One of the best ideas that I have heard for using stag is the way that Jerry did the handles on the knives in your avatar using a big stag round and turning it into a pair of "morticed scales."

Joe, why have you not worked with stag scales?

 

[knWWman1]

There are certainly many tactical collectors that are more interested in being a fraternity member than the quality of the knife. For sure, there is no inherent correlation with quality and price in the knife world either, but that's nothing new to tactical. Scagel prices make Loveless knives seem like a bargain. Perhaps Loveless didn't even make the highest quality Loveless knives. Over 10k$ for a Lake is incoherent. People buy what they want - it often makes no sense - deal with it. If somebody desires the highest quality of fit and finish and the knife doesn't live 100% in a hermetically sealed environment, they are a fool to buy wood or ivory scales, etc.. Only a mechanical null and void would argue differently. Natural materials can be beautiful and inherently attractive in a way that man made materials can't, but they have their limits. The value of older pieces often plummets when natural materials - hmmm... go natural ! Learn something every now and then STeve. Thanks for the post.

 

[knWWman1]

The somewhat recent anti-Pearl movement is one of the best things that ever happened to knife collectors (too bad it wouldn't also extend to Pre-War Colt collectors...). It allows us to get awesome knives at a steal that in another 5-10 years will be the rage again. My white pearl scaled Hanson is one of my treasures. A Hanson skull crusher with white pearl scales - Don's the man !!! I just hope the scales don't crack on me ;-) .

Good post STeven, I tend to agree.

Chuck makes some good points too. I stopped using white pearl 9-10 years ago, because I couldn't sell knives with it and nobody asked for it. But I did buy more stag at my last show than I've ever bought at any show. And bought a huge pile of stag from an individual a while back. Fossil ivory is still my hottest material and has been for many years.

I have not had any trouble getting good natural handle material. But it does cost $$$.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Please refer to the previous lazy comment. I have one big pair that I have owned for a few years, but I just can't figure out how to make them work. One of the best ideas that I have heard for using stag is the way that Jerry did the handles on the knives in your avatar using a big stag round and turning it into a pair of "morticed scales."

Yep, Joe that's what I was getting at. Doing a good job on the 'fit-up' and shaping of the stag while retaining that desirable stag color/look/texture can be fairly difficult as opposed to using wood or synthetic handle materials.
Here's better photos of the Fisk knives you referenced which demonstrate a complex but well executed use of stag handle material.

 

[Kevin Jones]

There are certainly many tactical collectors that are more interested in being a fraternity member than the quality of the knife. For sure, there is no inherent correlation with quality and price in the knife world either, but that's nothing new to tactical. Scagel prices make Loveless knives seem like a bargain. Perhaps Loveless didn't even make the highest quality Loveless knives. Over 10k$ for a Lake is incoherent. People buy what they want - it often makes no sense - deal with it. If somebody desires the highest quality of fit and finish and the knife doesn't live 100% in a hermetically sealed environment, they are a fool to buy wood or ivory scales, etc.. Only a mechanical null and void would argue differently. Natural materials can be beautiful and inherently attractive in a way that man made materials can't, but they have their limits. The value of older pieces often plummets when natural materials - hmmm... go natural ! Learn something every now and then STeve. Thanks for the post.

Some seem to have problems with natural handle material and others don't. Probably depends where you live and how well you maintain your natural handles.

 

[RogerP]

Kevin, I have not worked with stag scales, but good quality stag carvers are, IMO, the ultimate lazy man's natural handle material. They require minimal shaping, etc.. You basically build the knife to fit the handle.

It may be viewed as lazy by some, but I generally find that I like the results of building a blade to match the proportions and shape of a killer stag carver. And when it comes to ergonomics of a large knife, I don't like the thin, slab-sided feel that many stag scales impart. I much prefer the palm-filling feel of a nice carver. On something like a hunter, I'm okay with morticed scales.

 

[JBS TOOLMAKER]

Lots of the new collectors want handle material that does not require maintance. Natural handle material shrink, warp and crack! I think the buyers are just getting smarter.

Correct...I would much rather "work with" natural material. Easier to work, easier on tooling , probably not as bad for your health.
Nobody wants an EDC knife with stag or walnut scales. The fact is Carbon fiber, G-10, Micarta are better materials for the tool.
Aesthetics are purely opinion. Stag may look great, I build knives that are intended to be carried and abused. I think Carbon fiber is one of the best looking materials available.
To say there is no shift in the market is just plain wrong. I used to make nice fixed blades, Loveless style and some of my own design. I had a short order list and I sold some here and there 300.00 to 500.00 range.
When I started making Tactical folders, I went full time knifemaker. I have over a one year waiting list at 2 folders a week. I had to close my book and could easily open and go to 2 yrs. Take a look at the for sale area in this forum and all the others. Tactical folders are at the top of the market.

 

[Wulf]

Nobody wants an EDC knife with stag or walnut scales. The fact is Carbon fiber, G-10, Micarta are better materials for the tool.

My favorite carry knife has stag scales. Nothing feels quite as comfortable and tactile in my hand than a nice piece of stag. It's also incredibly tough. Keep in mind that stag was designed by nature to withstand some very heavy impact and it does so extremely well. G10 on the other hand gets slippery when wet (unless you texture it yourself) and has a tendency to be a bit brittle. So I actually disagree with your assertion that it's a better material for the tool. It is cheaper though, and provides the type of uniformity that some people prefer in a machine-made knife...