Lets talk GEC!

[B.F.U]

GEC calls it a Barlow:

This is the "Let's Talk GEC" thread, so if GEC calls it a Barlow I'm calling it a Barlow. Direct antagonistic responses are bad, but I think it's worse that there are now several pages in this thread with very little discussion directly regarding GEC. Considering how quickly some posts are moved to this thread, I am surprised that posts have not been moved from this thread.

I'm really looking forward to the new #77 Sheepfoot Barlows in Ebony. My first GEC and traditional purchase was a #15 TC Barlow in Smooth Ivory Bone, so I think this one in ebony will be a great contrast. I look forward to seeing how the sheepfoot looks on the #77 frame.

 

[Markesharp]

Nice knives Phillll! If I open a beer it's a "Beerlow" and if I open a Soda Pop it's a "Sodalow".

Oh and if I just use the screwdriver....yep......it's a "Screwlow".

 

[Jack Black]

"A Name!, A Name! What's in a Name? That which we call a Rose by any other name would smell as sweet." William Shakespeare

Nice phrasing :thumbup:

I don't think the Improved Barlow discussion needs to be contentious and thanks to those who make sure it doesn't become so

Quite so, we are just discussing knife patterns after all. Or we should be :thumbup: Always sad to see unpleasantness here

I just reread my post and wanted to expand a bit on the question of "How popular are/were wharncliffes". I think of the question in a couple of different ways besides how many people liked them. Like what kinds of knives were they typically found on and what level of finish did those knives usually have. I still haven't cracked open LG4 today but I imagine a wharncliffe may have been more popular on pen or whittler style small knives with a higher level of finish and cost.

The history of the Wharncliffe pattern has led to some fascinating discussion here in the past. I think most of us know the bones of the story behind the Joseph Rodgers Wharncliffe KNIFE. Personally, I’m sceptical about the design input of Lord orEarl of Wharncliffe, thinking it more likely that Joseph Rodgers & Sons were simply flattering a local dignatory who had secured them Royal patronage. The Ettrick knife for example has a similar beak-shaped blade (though it isn’t called a Wharncliffe). Here’s a 19th century Sheffield Wharncliffe Knife in ivory, sadly, as you can see, the pen blade has snapped off, but it’s a small knife, and the pattern is not just defined by the blade, but by its overall form (as per other traditional patterns).



Even this later Rodgers knife is small.



If you have a look through the Old Knives thread at the top of the page, you’ll find far better examples than these, but I don’t think they could be regarded as common.

Trand, I came to a very similar conclusion to yours. The way I see it, most of the barlows being released today aren't being used the way the original barlows were meant to be used. Heck, a lot of them we see here don't appear to be used at all. There's at least a portion of the barlow customer base for which the extended bolster is purely ornamental. That is to say that their knives don't see any use that a standard bolster would be insufficient for. That being the case, I'm OK with the use of a blade that's a little more fragile. It's a matter of matching your product to your customer base and their current needs as opposed to matching it to a standard that was developed when knives were used very differently than they are today.

Another way of looking at it would be why add a long bolster at all of course :thumbup:

Jack, I am amazed that such a short post led to such a conversation...

Me too my friend :thumbup:

I have learned more about how people view traditionals from this conversation than any other I've read here on the forums, and that's saying quite a bit.

Then maybe it hasn’t been in vain. Thank you for your comments, and for your participation in the discussion :thumbup:

I've got to hunt down a copy of Mr. Levine's book. If anybody has a bead on one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg I'd appreciate a PM with a hint as to it's whereabouts.

I’ll PM you Cory :thumbup: Perhaps other members already have 

Cory, For the most part the posts on this subject have remained respectful and informative.

That being said it's starting to take a turn for the worse. Those that recognize themselves in being involved in the turning need to take it down a notch. If you've got a personal problem with someone this is not the place to air it. We've had several reports on this so it's not just me .......

Thank you Gary, and sorry you’ve had to get the red pen out :thumbup:

Debating over what qualifies as a traditional knife is kind of like arguing about what a classic car is. Several car manufacturers have made modern renditions of classic cars, for example, the Challenger, Charger, Mustang, Camaro, etc. The new models of these cars, although they are being made by the original manufacturers, are by no means classical cars. They are modern renditions of the classics, and by no means fall under the definition of what a classic car is. The same goes for a traditional barlow. There are certain criteria that a knife needs to meet in order to meet the qualifications of a traditional pattern, and these criterion have been clearly and repeatedly defined. It isn't really up for debate, the knife either qualifies, or doesn't. Personal taste has NOTHING to do with it.

Lets take the "Beerlow" for example. This knife is not a barlow, it is a bastardization of the barlow. It may have shared aspects, such as a barlow style bolster, and a traditional barlow handle pattern, but, by definition, it is not a barlow. No personal opinion there, just pure fact.

Having said that, I (obviously) do not see anything wrong with making changes to traditional patterns to meet the demands of todays market. I do, however, have an issue with grouping them into the same category. Don't claim to drive a classic car when, in fact, you drive a '14 Challenger.

I am, of course, using the general "you" in this post. It is not directed at anyone in particular, but just my personal opinion on this general discussion.

I think you’ve hit a whole row of nails on the head there Evan :thumbup:

Another aspect of this discussion, briefly touched upon by Knifeswapper, is that with all production knives, be they Orthodox Traditionals, or Modern Renditions there of, is Marketing. No Knife Manufacturer can produce knives without marketing a large portion of what they manufacture. The Traditionals we all enjoy should teach us that. The demise of the Sheffield dominance of Traditional knife manufacture can be largely attributed to the Tariffs imposed by the USA in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, therefore limiting the Marketing of Imported knives in the USA. The rise and fall of many of the historical knife companies in the US can be attributed to the changing market forces. Even the exodus of many long standing companies today are more or less a result of market forces.
Production Knife Manufacturers, across the generations, have to make a certain amount of what is popular, what will sell. They can afford to produce very little "art for art's sake". What is popular at any given point in time is a very subjective, constantly changing, notion.

I mean this statement only as an observation on the previous discussion. Not as any manner of judgement of any of said previous comments.

Good post, and of course there was also the exodus of many impoverished Sheffield cutlers who emigrated to the USA after the tariffs were introduced, establishing knife companies such as Northfield I believe

Well back in the day when that ancient cutler mounted a new blade and tweaked the handle a little his peers gathered around oohing and aahing and said "what are you going to call it?"
Just as he began to respond he stifled a sneeze, suffered a heart attack and dropped dead.
He intended to say "why it's a Wharncliffe Swayback Barlow!"
His coworkers decided to honor his last utterance which they interpreted as "Ettrick".
Thus a new pattern was born.

LOL! Very good Bill :thumbup:

 

[philllll]

Nice knives Phillll! If I open a beer it's a "Beerlow" and if I open a Soda Pop it's a "Sodalow".

What if you just use it for the screwdriver? "Screw-low?" "Flat-head-low?"

What if I only use my beerlow when I'm at a bar? Does it become a "Bar-low?"

:thumbup:

 

[rma100]

As this is the "Let's talk GEC " thread, my remarks were meant to only refer to Great Eastern Cutlery produced knives. As for the upcoming 54 Big Jack and the Moose, I think we all will be pleasantly surprised at the return of a very popular Acrylic Handle Cover. If they don't change it up, it is GEC after all.

 

[Jack Black]

Sorry, playing catch-up

Thank you, Jack Black, from my heart. Very helpful honest comments from you that I could not appreciate more.

Thank you, very kind of you :thumbup:

 

[esnyx]

What if you just use it for the screwdriver? "Screw-low?" "Flat-head-low?"

What if I only use my beerlow when I'm at a bar? Does it become a "Bar-low?"

:thumbup:

LOL :thumbup:

 

[rma100]

"Good post, and of course there was also the exodus of many impoverished Sheffield cutlers who emigrated to the USA after the tariffs were introduced, establishing knife companies such as Northfield I believe "


Absolutely! The "little meesters" played a leading role in the growth of the American Knife Manufacture. At one time or another I think EVERY American manufacturer was affected by them or their offspring. If memory serve, the Platts family were from Old Blighty.

 

[Markesharp]

What if you just use it for the screwdriver? "Screw-low?" "Flat-head-low?"

What if I only use my beerlow when I'm at a bar? Does it become a "Bar-low?"

:thumbup:

YES! :thumbup:

 

[pmew]

Totally off topic... I'm still craning my neck to see if there are any more #13s on the horizon. It's been a year afterall...

 

[Jack Black]

Absolutely! The "little meesters" played a leading role in the growth of the American Knife Manufacture. At one time or another I think EVERY American manufacturer was affected by them or their offspring. If memory serve, the Platts family were from Old Blighty.

Yes, for me it was one of the most fascinating things about reading the GEC book recently, a chapter of history I knew only the bare bones of, and very well told :thumbup:

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Debating over what qualifies as a traditional knife is kind of like arguing about what a classic car is. Several car manufacturers have made modern renditions of classic cars, for example, the Challenger, Charger, Mustang, Camaro, etc. The new models of these cars, although they are being made by the original manufacturers, are by no means classical cars. They are modern renditions of the classics, and by no means fall under the definition of what a classic car is. The same goes for a traditional barlow. There are certain criteria that a knife needs to meet in order to meet the qualifications of a traditional pattern, and these criterion have been clearly and repeatedly defined. It isn't really up for debate, the knife either qualifies, or doesn't. Personal taste has NOTHING to do with it.

Lets take the "Beerlow" for example. This knife is not a barlow, it is a bastardization of the barlow. It may have shared aspects, such as a barlow style bolster, and a traditional barlow handle pattern, but, by definition, it is not a barlow. No personal opinion there, just pure fact.

Having said that, I (obviously) do not see anything wrong with making changes to traditional patterns to meet the demands of todays market. I do, however, have an issue with grouping them into the same category. Don't claim to drive a classic car when, in fact, you drive a '14 Challenger.

I am, of course, using the general "you" in this post. It is not directed at anyone in particular, but just my personal opinion on this general discussion.

I disagree.

A modern Challenger is still a Challenger.... even if it isn't a vintage one.

Or we can take it the other way. I build a 69 Camaro using all new parts (you can even buy the hull new today). I make it basically the exact same as off the assembly line, is it still the classic car?

A new knife isn't a vintage knife, that will never change, but I see no reason someone can't put tweak on a barlow frame and call it a barlow.

 

[B.F.U]

Holy Dark Red Soup Bone!!! Guys they look magnificent:

http://instagram.com/p/vy7_S7Hodt/

 

[Lemmy Caution]

Holy Dark Red Soup Bone!!! Guys they look magnificent:

http://instagram.com/p/vy7_S7Hodt/

Yowzas!

 

[Jack Black]

Yes indeed, absolutely gorgeous! :thumbup:

 

[Markesharp]

Holy Dark Red Soup Bone!!! Guys they look magnificent:

http://instagram.com/p/vy7_S7Hodt/

Check out the batch of wood handled ones in the first picture on the GEC website. Rosewood? Cocobolo?

 

[slide13]

wow, that dark red soup bone does look really good! Getting a little bummed that I missed out on these, somehow by the time I heard about them I think they were already all spoken for. I need to pay better attention Had trouble picturing what the dark red soup bone would look like...guess the answer is awesomeness.

Are there wood handles coming too, I thought it was just the soup bones?

 

[chisumr]

Has anyone bought the new GEC USS TEXAS Battleship #48 Damascus Knife? Mine just arrived today. Crudy pictures but cloudy outside. Best I could do:

 

[Augie]

Chisumr, that is a beauty, first time I've seen a picture of one that shows the Damascus pattern clearly.

 

[draggat]

I don't know for sure but I'll bet there's more than a few forumites who would really go for a Wharncliffe Granddaddy Barlow Switchblade

The only problem with that setup is that the wharncliffe sits really wide in the closed position and Grandad Barlows are huge! It would be a pocket monster! I'm partial to a spear in that pattern.... I would like to see GEC make one, minus the switchblade part!